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Send Us Prophets, Not Profits!


dhchristian

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On 10/18/2019 at 8:54 AM, dhchristian said:

 

I Had a fellow worker who was struggling. He was an alcoholic and fell behind on his bills had his truck repossessed. I Had the means to get him a vehicle to get to work in so I did, on the condition that he get help for his addiction, which he did. I Did not expect to be repaid, but he did repay me for that cost with his labor for me in the future, to his credit, because he learned to fish. I Did not feed his addiction but conditioned my giving on him seeking help with his addiction. Until the extortioner admits their addiction we should never give them money, for we are only enabling their addiction, like buying an alcoholic a drink. Instead, we should expose their addiction to them so that they will admit their error. Unfortunately some will never admit their error, But exposing them is the best way for us to Love them. Instead of giving your money to an addict in denial, use discernment and give that money to the poor who knows they have made a mistake and help them to get back on their feet, there are plenty of them out there we just need to look and listen and we will find them. 

Yeah, idk...

" And He looked up and saw the rich putting their gifts into the treasury, 2 and He saw also a certain poor widow putting in two mites. So He said, “Truly I say to you that this poor widow has put in more than all; for all these out of their abundance have put in offerings for God, but she out of her poverty put in all the livelihood that she had.” -Luke 21

"For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me." - Matt 25

"Remember this: Whoever sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and whoever sows generously will also reap generously. Each of you should give what you have decided in your heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver." - 2 Cor 9

"Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back." - Luke 6

I don't see such a distinction anywhere. But as everyone purposes in his own mind...

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1 hour ago, Diaste said:

Yeah, idk..

For yourselves know how ye ought to follow us: for we behaved not ourselves disorderly among you; Neither did we eat any man's bread for nought; but wrought with labour and travail night and day, that we might not be chargeable to any of you: Not because we have not power, but to make ourselves an ensample unto you to follow us. For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat. For we hear that there are some which walk among you disorderly, working not at all, but are busybodies. Now them that are such we command and exhort by our Lord Jesus Christ, that with quietness they work, and eat their own bread. But ye, brethren, be not weary in well doing. And if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed. Yet count him not as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother. (2 Thess. 3:7-15)

These Words are about people who are called to be leaders in the church like Paul was. He being the example of how they should not be a burden to anyone, living off of the people. Paul was a tentmaker, when he ministered he labored also for his food. Other times he received gifts given him, when he was in need, and yet other times he directed those gifts to the poor in Jerusalem who were in need. Giving which enables sin is not condoned nor blessed by the Word of God. Though giving is encouraged to those who are poor. There is no way a preacher should make millions off of the giving of others, this is extortion, nothing more. Note what Paul says about this sort, how we should expose them that they may be ashamed, but admonish them as a brother. Many of your institutional churches today are nothing more than extortion businesses, And I am "noting and admonishing" those men.

And he said unto his disciples, Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat; neither for the body, what ye shall put on. The life is more than meat, and the body is more than raiment. Consider the ravens: for they neither sow nor reap; which neither have storehouse nor barn; and God feedeth them: how much more are ye better than the fowls? And which of you with taking thought can add to his stature one cubit? If ye then be not able to do that thing which is least, why take ye thought for the rest? Consider the lilies how they grow: they toil not, they spin not; and yet I say unto you, that Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these. If then God so clothe the grass, which is to day in the field, and to morrow is cast into the oven; how much more will he clothe you, O ye of little faith? And seek not ye what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink, neither be ye of doubtful mind. For all these things do the nations of the world seek after: and your Father knoweth that ye have need of these things. But rather seek ye the kingdom of God; and all these things shall be added unto you. (Luke 12;22-31)

 

 

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Just now, dhchristian said:
1 hour ago, Diaste said:

Yeah, idk..

For yourselves know how ye ought to follow us: for we behaved not ourselves disorderly among you; Neither did we eat any man's bread for nought; but wrought with labour and travail night and day, that we might not be chargeable to any of you: Not because we have not power, but to make ourselves an ensample unto you to follow us. For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat. For we hear that there are some which walk among you disorderly, working not at all, but are busybodies. Now them that are such we command and exhort by our Lord Jesus Christ, that with quietness they work, and eat their own bread. But ye, brethren, be not weary in well doing. And if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed. Yet count him not as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother. (2 Thess. 3:7-15)

These Words are about people who are called to be leaders in the church like Paul was. He being the example of how they should not be a burden to anyone, living off of the people. Paul was a tentmaker, when he ministered he labored also for his food. Other times he received gifts given him, when he was in need, and yet other times he directed those gifts to the poor in Jerusalem who were in need. Giving which enables sin is not condoned nor blessed by the Word of God. Though giving is encouraged to those who are poor. There is no way a preacher should make millions off of the giving of others, this is extortion, nothing more. Note what Paul says about this sort, how we should expose them that they may be ashamed, but admonish them as a brother. Many of your institutional churches today are nothing more than extortion businesses, And I am "noting and admonishing" those men.

And he said unto his disciples, Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat; neither for the body, what ye shall put on. The life is more than meat, and the body is more than raiment. Consider the ravens: for they neither sow nor reap; which neither have storehouse nor barn; and God feedeth them: how much more are ye better than the fowls? And which of you with taking thought can add to his stature one cubit? If ye then be not able to do that thing which is least, why take ye thought for the rest? Consider the lilies how they grow: they toil not, they spin not; and yet I say unto you, that Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these. If then God so clothe the grass, which is to day in the field, and to morrow is cast into the oven; how much more will he clothe you, O ye of little faith? And seek not ye what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink, neither be ye of doubtful mind. For all these things do the nations of the world seek after: and your Father knoweth that ye have need of these things. But rather seek ye the kingdom of God; and all these things shall be added unto you. (Luke 12;22-31)

The Protestant work ethic.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protestant_work_ethic

From Link:

"Protestants, beginning with Martin Luther, reconceptualized worldly work as a duty which benefits both the individual and society as a whole. Thus, the Catholic idea of good works was transformed into an obligation to consistently work diligently as a sign of grace. Whereas Catholicism teaches that good works are required of Catholics as a necessary manifestation of the faith they received, and that faith apart from works is dead (James 2:14–26) and barren, the Calvinist theologians taught that only those who were predestined to be saved would be saved."

Now I disagree with Calvinism, Neither am I defending the protestant work ethic, But I point this out as an addendum to this discussion, to show you how extortion by the church works using the example of the Catholic church. Most of what was given to the catholic church went into their own coffers and their wealth is staggering. The problem is Protestantism is falling into that same frame of mind with the prosperity gospel, and even our system and country no longer rewards hard work but rather enables extortion and benefits the extortioners. If hard work were the determining factor then your blue collar people would be the richest ones in this country, but instead the extortioners are the richest. When you start seeing this then you will understand how the extortion gimmick works and how you can avoid feeding their addiction. What we have in the U.S. right now is legalized and militarized extortion, which began after the civil war and became fully established with the fed reserve, and the eventual removal of the Gold standard from currency. By incremental inflation of the fiat currency they are literally enslaving the workers of this country, and the countries around the world. Even the money you have saved is worth less every day you have it, thus encouraging consumerism. Chances are, if you are employed, your wages have not kept up with inflation. What this means is you are being robbed daily. You either become an extortioner yourself, or you become separate from the system as a whole. The following passage should gain a new meaning to you if you understand what I am saying.

And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues. For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities. Reward her even as she rewarded you, and double unto her double according to her works: in the cup which she hath filled fill to her double. How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow. (Rev 18:4-7)  

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On 10/20/2019 at 11:03 AM, dhchristian said:

For yourselves know how ye ought to follow us: for we behaved not ourselves disorderly among you; Neither did we eat any man's bread for nought; but wrought with labour and travail night and day, that we might not be chargeable to any of you: Not because we have not power, but to make ourselves an ensample unto you to follow us. For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat. For we hear that there are some which walk among you disorderly, working not at all, but are busybodies. Now them that are such we command and exhort by our Lord Jesus Christ, that with quietness they work, and eat their own bread. But ye, brethren, be not weary in well doing. And if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed. Yet count him not as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother. (2 Thess. 3:7-15)

These Words are about people who are called to be leaders in the church like Paul was. He being the example of how they should not be a burden to anyone, living off of the people. Paul was a tentmaker, when he ministered he labored also for his food. Other times he received gifts given him, when he was in need, and yet other times he directed those gifts to the poor in Jerusalem who were in need. Giving which enables sin is not condoned nor blessed by the Word of God. Though giving is encouraged to those who are poor. There is no way a preacher should make millions off of the giving of others, this is extortion, nothing more. Note what Paul says about this sort, how we should expose them that they may be ashamed, but admonish them as a brother. Many of your institutional churches today are nothing more than extortion businesses, And I am "noting and admonishing" those men.

And he said unto his disciples, Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat; neither for the body, what ye shall put on. The life is more than meat, and the body is more than raiment. Consider the ravens: for they neither sow nor reap; which neither have storehouse nor barn; and God feedeth them: how much more are ye better than the fowls? And which of you with taking thought can add to his stature one cubit? If ye then be not able to do that thing which is least, why take ye thought for the rest? Consider the lilies how they grow: they toil not, they spin not; and yet I say unto you, that Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these. If then God so clothe the grass, which is to day in the field, and to morrow is cast into the oven; how much more will he clothe you, O ye of little faith? And seek not ye what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink, neither be ye of doubtful mind. For all these things do the nations of the world seek after: and your Father knoweth that ye have need of these things. But rather seek ye the kingdom of God; and all these things shall be added unto you. (Luke 12;22-31)

 

 

That's not the original issue. I wasn't addressing "For we hear that there are some which walk among you disorderly, working not at all, but are busybodies. ", which is much different than the event you brought up in the previous post.

It seems the idea, "would not work,"  is pithy. That's worlds away from needing help.

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On 10/20/2019 at 11:32 AM, dhchristian said:

Now I disagree with Calvinism, Neither am I defending the protestant work ethic, But I point this out as an addendum to this discussion, to show you how extortion by the church works using the example of the Catholic church. Most of what was given to the catholic church went into their own coffers and their wealth is staggering. The problem is Protestantism is falling into that same frame of mind with the prosperity gospel, and even our system and country no longer rewards hard work but rather enables extortion and benefits the extortioners. If hard work were the determining factor then your blue collar people would be the richest ones in this country, but instead the extortioners are the richest. When you start seeing this then you will understand how the extortion gimmick works and how you can avoid feeding their addiction. What we have in the U.S. right now is legalized and militarized extortion, which began after the civil war and became fully established with the fed reserve, and the eventual removal of the Gold standard from currency. By incremental inflation of the fiat currency they are literally enslaving the workers of this country, and the countries around the world. Even the money you have saved is worth less every day you have it, thus encouraging consumerism. Chances are, if you are employed, your wages have not kept up with inflation. What this means is you are being robbed daily. You either become an extortioner yourself, or you become separate from the system as a whole. The following passage should gain a new meaning to you if you understand what I am saying

This seems condescending. You don't realize what I understand or what I do, neither the motives, but you make broad assumptions anyway. 

Not that I care. What you are talking about is so old. This is the way of it from inception and there is nothing that can or will be done about it.

The power of Christ is greater than that of the world and ultimate destiny is more than freedom from a fiat money system. 

My goal, your goal, everyone's goal, is and should be life eternal by the grace of the Almighty God, in the Power of the Holy Spirit all through the work of Christ Jesus.

"Behold! I have overcome the world!"

Who cares what Satan does? Jesus is my hope and strength.

None of their draconian laws or Machiavellian behaviors affect the outcome. We all live and die by the power of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Let 'em have their moment. I intend to follow Jesus.

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2 hours ago, Diaste said:

That's not the original issue. I wasn't addressing "For we hear that there are some which walk among you disorderly, working not at all, but are busybodies. ", which is much different than the event you brought up in the previous post.

It seems the idea, "would not work,"  is pithy. That's worlds away from needing help.

We were discussing handouts and hand-ups, and enabling those who either will not work or are living off of the good will of the People. A busybody is an example of this.

 

2 hours ago, Diaste said:

This seems condescending. You don't realize what I understand or what I do, neither the motives, but you make broad assumptions anyway. 

Not that I care. What you are talking about is so old. This is the way of it from inception and there is nothing that can or will be done about it.

The power of Christ is greater than that of the world and ultimate destiny is more than freedom from a fiat money system. 

My goal, your goal, everyone's goal, is and should be life eternal by the grace of the Almighty God, in the Power of the Holy Spirit all through the work of Christ Jesus.

"Behold! I have overcome the world!"

Who cares what Satan does? Jesus is my hope and strength.

None of their draconian laws or Machiavellian behaviors affect the outcome. We all live and die by the power of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Let 'em have their moment. I intend to follow Jesus.

My point is that this is being done in the name of God and I condemn that. If what I said is condescending towards you then, perhaps you need to ask Why? Did the Words convict you, challenge you, or point to your own church you are a member of? I do not Know you personally, and these words were not directed at you personally, but the fact that they made you respond to them and made them out to be condescending says that they did touch you, and not in an exhorting way. Like it or not, but the churches (institutions of men) are a part of this system of extortion, and it is a hard pill for many to swallow. It is good you "intend to follow Jesus", that is the Point of this comment. He is our example of how we should live and behave in this World, Not some preacher pimp, who we give our money to that they may do our job of reaching people with Christ. Here is how Christ designed the church. He had 12 disciples, those 12 would make 12 disciple of their own, and then you have 144, then those 144 would make 12 of there own. Do the math on this. 12 to the 10th power is almost 62 million disciples. And 12 to the 12th power is 8.9 billion which is greater than the population of the earth right now. When we do our job of making 12 disciples, is when we will see revival. Giving money to an extortioner is not how this works.

God Bless 

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On 10/11/2019 at 2:16 AM, Diaste said:

mm...

My thought is we just aren't listening to the prophets that are here. We want new ones because we don't like the message we hear or are too dull to hear it.

There's a dearth of hearing, not a dearth of messengers.

Certainly true. Would add that one reason for the dull ears is that there are so many false teachers and false prophets around clamoring for attention, that the true ones get lost in the babble. "Discernment is such a bother, so why even try, ya know?"

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