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Will pregnancy and toddlers/children vanish when Rapture happens ?


R. Hartono

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 Pets will not go in the rapture either.

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6 hours ago, missmuffet said:

 Pets will not go in the rapture either.

How about spiders?

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On 11/26/2019 at 1:13 AM, missmuffet said:

 Pets will not go in the rapture either.

Are you SURE of this? We serve an AWESOME God! People would worry about no one to feed their pets. Our God is an all sufficient God. I think pets will go or be taken later.

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On 10/15/2019 at 1:23 AM, R. Hartono said:

I have read some claimed testimonies by the christians who claimed to hv rcvd vision about how the pregnancy and children/toddlers suddenly vanished after the rapture takes place.

They may say so but does God really care for the babies and children of unGodly parents ?

Luke 23:28 But Jesus turned to them and said, “Daughters of Jerusalem, do not weep for Me, but weep for yourselves and for your children. 29 Look, the days are coming when people will say, ‘Blessed are the barren women, the wombs that never bore, and breasts that never nursed.

Matt 24:19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
 

Did God save the children of unGodly people when the Noah Flood destroyed the whole world ? But the children of Noah only ?

Did God care to save the children of unGodly parents in Sodom and Gomorra ? But the children of Lot ?

 

Well it is fun to speculate on this sort of issue.  

Sometimes it is interesting to see how the enemy views such things.  And from the various writings of New Age channelers and such, they claim there will be a removal of many from the earth so that the earth can "cleanse" itself and move to higher vibration.  And buried within that view of things, they say that the children will also be removed since they are not able to endure the changes that will occur.  

It would seem the enemy is quite aware that he needs to explain away the disappearance of a significant number of people.  And he has even included explaining away how all the children are missing.  I wouldn't just dismiss these things because they are ideas from the enemy.  Satan knows as much about the details of what the scripture says than any theologian ever has.  He even knew it well enough and could quote it in confrontation with the Messiah. 

If you watch this video clip from Dr. Mark Eastman, a Christian, he shows quotes and readings from many of these New Age types, Channelers, Extraterrestial adherents, etc and in that video you can see in more detail what I outlined above, including the topic of this thread regarding the children.

 

Edited by OldCoot
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On 10/22/2019 at 8:08 PM, iamlamad said:

The 7th seal STARTS the 70th week. Don't doubt me on this.

Well, I will.

The first seal seems to match up with being the revealing of the antichrist / false messiah / son of perdition character.   The "bow" he has is not defined in the passage.  So when one runs into that problem, it is wise to fall back on a concept in Hermeneutics called "expositional constancy" which involves a principle called "the law of first mention".

The first mention of a "bow" in scripture is in Genesis 9 where the Lord confirms the covenant He is making with Noah and the earth by setting the "bow" in the clouds.   The "bow" is representative of that covenant.  

Fast forward to Revelation and the rider on the white horse of the first seal has a "bow".  It is reasonable and hermeneutically proper to equate that "bow" with being a covenant.  And when one combines that with Daniel 9:27 where a covenant is confirmed for one week, and each week in the 70 week prophecy equates to 7 years, then it would seem the 1st seal is what starts the final 7 year period.

That doesn't mean the great tribulation is 7 years. Actually, the GT technically  begins at the mid point and lasts for 3.5 years / 42 months.

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3 hours ago, iamlamad said:

Are you SURE of this? We serve an AWESOME God! People would worry about no one to feed their pets. Our God is an all sufficient God. I think pets will go or be taken later.

I am pretty sure that pets will not be raptured. Yes, pets will be left behind. That is one of the reasons I am not getting a pet. We don't know when Jesus will rapture the Church. 

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9 hours ago, missmuffet said:

I am pretty sure that pets will not be raptured. Yes, pets will be left behind. That is one of the reasons I am not getting a pet. We don't know when Jesus will rapture the Church. 

I can only tell you what a man said that went to heaven, but got prayed back to his body. he was walking along the river of life, when three of his previous dogs came running up to him and said: "where are your wife and kids?"  He said, don't ask me HOW they asked me this, for I don't know. I answered them, and I don't know how I answered them:  "don't worry, they will be along soon." 

Others tell of seeing many animals in heaven. My perspective is, we serve an AWESOME God. He knows how much people love their pets.  And He has promised to do above and beyond what we think. 

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On 10/18/2019 at 12:27 PM, iamlamad said:

You are simply mistaken.  God and John start His wrath at the 6th seal, before the book is even open.  "The tribulation" or the 70th week does not begin until the 7th seal with the 30 minutes of silence, then the trumpet judgments, which are written INSIDE the book.

The great crowd, too large to number, seen in heaven in Rev. 7 is the just raptured church. caught up before His wrath begins, and most certainly before any of the 70th week begins. Just so you know, God "marked" the 70th week with 7's. 

The truth of God's word is, God's wrath starts before the 70th week and continues on through the entire week.

I must add: unless you gain FAITH in a pretrib rapture, you will not be qualified and will be left behind.

You may be right about the rapture timing, but you are certainly not correct about this point.

God is not so petty and He knows well the confusion among well meaning hearts on this issue.

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12 hours ago, OldCoot said:

Well, I will.

The first seal seems to match up with being the revealing of the antichrist / false messiah / son of perdition character.   The "bow" he has is not defined in the passage.  So when one runs into that problem, it is wise to fall back on a concept in Hermeneutics called "expositional constancy" which involves a principle called "the law of first mention".

The first mention of a "bow" in scripture is in Genesis 9 where the Lord confirms the covenant He is making with Noah and the earth by setting the "bow" in the clouds.   The "bow" is representative of that covenant.  

Fast forward to Revelation and the rider on the white horse of the first seal has a "bow".  It is reasonable and hermeneutically proper to equate that "bow" with being a covenant.  And when one combines that with Daniel 9:27 where a covenant is confirmed for one week, and each week in the 70 week prophecy equates to 7 years, then it would seem the 1st seal is what starts the final 7 year period.

That doesn't mean the great tribulation is 7 years. Actually, the GT technically  begins at the mid point and lasts for 3.5 years / 42 months.

The first seal seems to match up with being the revealing of the antichrist  Who ever said such a thing? Did JOHN think this when he wrote it? I doubt it! How then can we be sure? All we need do is study to show ourselves approved: We could start at the vials, and work backwards, and ask ourselves: "Has this event happened yet?" One could work backwards through the vials and then the trumpets and the answer would be "NO, this event has not happened yet."  Then we get to the seals. It may be hard to tell if the 7th seal is opened, for nothing happens at that moment on earth. But back up to the 6th seal, and we can be sure, no worldwide earthquake has happened yet and we are NOT YET into the Day of the Lord. 

If we back up to the 5th seal, we could wonder: is this church age martyrs or 70th week martyrs? How could one tell? I think we can tell by what is said: 70th week martyrs would KNOW that they were 70th week martyrs and would KNOW that God's judgment has already begun and they have only to wait out the rest of the 70th week and they will see Jesus. These people, on the other hand, have NO IDEA how long it is going to be before the time of judgment starts. They are told they have to wait for the very last martyr killed as they were. Does that mean killed by beheading? Killed by being crucified? Killed by the sword? Is that John's meaning? No, for there were many ways people were put to death. The meaning must be killed as they were as church age martyrs or killed as they were as 70th week Martyrs.  However, since we read in Rev. 15 that the beheaded are just beginning to appear in heaven, it seems FAR more likely that these are church age martyrs. 

If we go to the 4th seal and ask ourselves if "DEATH" is still future or past, and if we consider Christ's words of Pestilence as a parallel verse, we know pestilence has certainly come. But we also notice that at the fourth seal, the sword is mentioned, the famine is mentioned along with death: that these three ride together as if in agreement - but are LIMITED in their theater of operation to 1/4 of the earth. We could make a very good guess that this 1/4th would be centered on Jerusalem.  Looking at a globe, this 14th would cover all of Europe and all of Africa, plus the Middle East. Have we seen pestilence in Europe and Africa? Yes, over and over and over in centuries past. Same with famine and war: two world wars started in Europe.  (Note: we cannot say this over any vial or trumpet judgment.)

Therefore, it seems very clear that seals 5, 4, 3, and 2 are history. 

This leaves just seal 1. 

Or, we could study the context of the first seal, and work forward. We have been over this before and you still have not understood the intent of the Author.  John saw in a vision a throne room with the Father seen but Jesus NOT SEEN. Now, WHY would God show John a vision in 95 AD of a throne room with Jesus NOT SEEN? 

Next, John saw in this vision a throne room  with the Holy Spirit present. 

Next in the vision, John saw a search for one worthy which ended in failure: "no man was found..." 

Next, someone WAS found - showing us first the passing of time: a time when no one was found TO a time when someone WAS found.

Jesus had "prevailed" to become worthy to take the book and open the seals. It is very clear that in verses 3-4 Jesus had not yet prevailed. But TIME PASSED and Jesus did prevail. What then, we may asked, did Jesus prevail over that no other man did? He prevailed over DEATH! He rose from the dead by His own power. No other man ever born had or has this power over death. 

What then is John telling us here? He is showing us TIME (a certain time) and the movement of time. The question is, WHAT time? It must be a time before Christ prevailed over death. Therefore it is a time while Christ was still on earth. It does not matter that this is 95 AD: God can show ANY time in a vision. 

Jesus was NOT SEEN at the right hand of the Father because it was at a time He was still ON EARTH. The Holy Spirit was there because Jesus had not risen to send Him down.  "No man was found worthy to take the book" because at that moment in time Jesus had not yet conquered death. But TIME PASSED (in the vision), Jesus rose the dead, and was then found worthy. Then we read:

And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.

And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne.

What time is it? It is the very time Jesus ascended back into heaven, after telling Mary not to touch Him for He had not YET ascended. So what Did Jesus promise to do the moment He ascended to heaven? He said He would send the Holy Spirit down. Notice the bolded words.

Jesus died for our sins, rose from the dead, prevailing over death, was seen by people, then ascended into heaven and sent the Holy Spirit down. What time was that? It was around 32 AD. Notice the FIRST THING Jesus did: got the book and began opening the seals. 

Since we KNOW that it is at the 7th trumpet that Jesus kicks Satan from his throne and gets His planet back into His rulership, and we know that no trumpet can be sounded until all 7 seals are opened, that Jesus would get that book as soon as possible and begin the countdown to Statan's demise as god of this world? Well, that is exactly what chapters 4 & 5 tell us.

Therefore, your first statement: "The first seal seems to match up with being the revealing of the antichrist " is not really what the text tells us. In other words, it is only imagination with no scriptural backing.  John lived during the early church. We live at the end of the church age. We therefore try and make most of the book about OUR TIME, when God started THEN: 32 AD.   

The "bow" he has is not defined in the passage  This is true, but it is the Greek word "toxon" which Greek word was used over and over in the Septuagint for the archer's bow. We get our word toxic from it, for it was common practice to put poison on their arrows.  A bow as a weapon has VERY LITTLE to do with a rainbow but a CURVE. In other words, that definition must not be the Author's intent. It therefore must be considered a weapon. Why else would John use "toxon." Any reader in John's day would consider this an archer's bow. Therefore I must disagree.

God and John have given us ONE verse to determine the meaning:

And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.

What then can we determine from this ONE verse?  Horses in prophecy usually give us the idea of warfare. We can remember the horses and chariots of Egypt that God drowned in the Red sea. So it seems the Holy Spirit was thinking warfare. But what KIND of warfare?

Next, we see the color white. How does John use this color?

 

Revelation 1:14 His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire;

Revelation 2:17 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.

Revelation 3:4 Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy.

Revelation 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

Revelation 3:18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.

Revelation 4:4 And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold.

Revelation 6:2 And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.

Revelation 6:11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

Revelation 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

Revelation 7:13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?

Revelation 7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

Revelation 14:14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

Revelation 15:6 And the seven angels came out of the temple, having the seven plagues, clothed in pure and white linen, and having their breasts girded with golden girdles.

Revelation 19:8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

Revelation 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

Revelation 19:14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

Revelation 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

We see John used this word 17 times in his book. In every other verse where John used white, it is associated with God, heaven and with righteousness. Why then would ANYONE imagine God would use it once for something evil? 

We KNOW Jesus said that all power and authority was given unto Him so He said to the church "GO!" They were commanded to take the gospel to the nations of the world. We also know that Satan is the GOD of this world, and has principalities and powers - evil rulers in high places - in every nation.  Therefore, for the gospel to advance, there MUST BE overcoming and conquering. This kind of conquering is not with physical weapons such as arrows shot from bows: no, the church uses spiritual weapons.  

If we follow good bible exegesis, we can come up with no other choice to be say this first seal is for something concerning war or conflict -  but it must be righteous conflict and overcoming - and it must align in time with Jesus ascension back into heaven - so around 32 AD. 

So over these scriptures, you and I will continue to disagree. 

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18 minutes ago, Alive said:

You may be right about the rapture timing, but you are certainly not correct about this point.

God is not so petty and He knows well the confusion among well meaning hearts on this issue.

I hope you will study this verse with an open heart:

Hebrews 9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

Ask yourself, WHO is He going to appear to? Most verses in the bible have a flip side like a coin. In other words, what will happen to those that are NOT looking for Him because they have convinced themselves that they will see the Antichrist Beast first? 

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