Jayne Posted October 18, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 16 Topic Count: 106 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 3,810 Content Per Day: 1.29 Reputation: 4,793 Days Won: 2 Joined: 03/31/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted October 18, 2019 (edited) 4 hours ago, nickm727 said: Paul says to be submissive I rest my case. It's all about the mindset. Edited October 18, 2019 by Jayne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dailyprayerwarrior Posted October 18, 2019 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 219 Content Per Day: 0.13 Reputation: 284 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/03/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted October 18, 2019 I think there are truths to this and falsities. Yes, I believe that a red flag should be raised whenever a group rushes in demanding another group agree with them "or else". I also believe that women do get pushed around by men at times and there are more wrinkles to be ironed out in this regard. If we let the Word be a light to our feet and a lamp to our path as we make a genuine effort to work things out, we can't go wrong with the Lord guiding us. He knows best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neighbor Posted October 18, 2019 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 18 Topic Count: 951 Topics Per Day: 0.35 Content Count: 13,559 Content Per Day: 5.03 Reputation: 9,040 Days Won: 6 Joined: 12/04/2016 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/03/1885 Share Posted October 18, 2019 What might the Bible give as some guidance/command regarding martial relations, and overall behavior? 1 Corinthians 7:1-7 English Standard Version (ESV) Principles for Marriage Now concerning the matters about which you wrote: “It is good for a man not to have sexual relations with a woman.” But because of the temptation to sexual immorality, each man should have his own wife and each woman her own husband. The husband should give to his wife her conjugal rights, and likewise the wife to her husband. For the wife does not have authority over her own body, but the husband does. Likewise the husband does not have authority over his own body, but the wife does. Do not deprive one another, except perhaps by agreement for a limited time, that you may devote yourselves to prayer; but then come together again, so that Satan may not tempt you because of your lack of self-control. Now as a concession, not a command, I say this. I wish that all were as I myself am. But each has his own gift from God, one of one kind and one of another. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neighbor Posted October 18, 2019 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 18 Topic Count: 951 Topics Per Day: 0.35 Content Count: 13,559 Content Per Day: 5.03 Reputation: 9,040 Days Won: 6 Joined: 12/04/2016 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/03/1885 Share Posted October 18, 2019 After reading through some posts i kind of wonder if the whole subject isn't really a manifestation of the sins, envy and of covetousness. Why should I care what another has or makes, or is even entitled to, whether they are male or female or just don't know what they are? If I am doing all that I do to the glory of God, do I then need equal pay as another for what I do? In all my life I never ever thought of income or resources in terms of hourly wage especially not as compared to another's income or resources. My bankers never ever asked me; What do you earn per hour? Did you get an increase over last year? All they ever wanted to know is how will I have money come Friday to pay them their payment due on Friday. To worry that another may have more than me or to gloat that I may have more than another- wow seems a bad trail to walk, one that will only bring sadness and dissatisfaction because life just isn't fair. And thank God for that! I have received unmerited reward and eternal security, all unfair, whoopie! God is so good. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heleadethme Posted October 18, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 15 Topic Count: 13 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,371 Content Per Day: 1.36 Reputation: 3,267 Days Won: 5 Joined: 07/10/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted October 18, 2019 9 hours ago, nzkev said: adjective adjective: submissive ready to conform to the authority or will of others; meekly obedient or passive. "a submissive, almost sheeplike people" If we apply the dictionary definition to the church towards Jesus it works well, Maybe you're reading too much into something that isn't there Nope. We need the Holy Spirit to know the mind of Christ on submissiveness and what HE means by it.....if we women are to be "an help meet/suitable" for our mates, then passivity is not the right way to think of this. And let's not forget that both husband and wife are to submit to one another, as well. However, the wife is to respect her husband's headship in the family. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted October 18, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.24 Reputation: 9,760 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted October 18, 2019 Both women's and men's rights groups are the worlds idea to equality. The world has not followed "Love your neighbor as yourself". If they did, there would be no need for either group. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heleadethme Posted October 18, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 15 Topic Count: 13 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,371 Content Per Day: 1.36 Reputation: 3,267 Days Won: 5 Joined: 07/10/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted October 18, 2019 12 minutes ago, Neighbor said: After reading through some posts i kind of wonder if the whole subject isn't really a manifestation of the sins, envy and of covetousness. Why should I care what another has or makes, or is even entitled to, whether they are male or female or just don't know what they are? If I am doing all that I do to the glory of God, do I then need equal pay as another for what I do? In all my life I never ever thought of income or resources in terms of hourly wage especially not as compared to another's income or resources. My bankers never ever asked me; What do you earn per hour? Did you get an increase over last year? All they ever wanted to know is how will I have money come Friday to pay them their payment due on Friday. To worry that another may have more than me or to gloat that I may have more than another- wow seems a bad trail to walk, one that will only bring sadness and dissatisfaction because life just isn't fair. And thank God for that! I have received unmerited reward and eternal security, all unfair, whoopie! God is so good. It's so easy to forget the realities of the past....if we forget the past we may be doomed to repeat it. Let's not forget that feminism arose because many women were suffering very badly. Women (and their children) were suffering due to having no means of recourse when the men in their lives were not fulfilling their God-given role and responsibilities as husbands. So women wanted the vote in order to gain enough legal and economic leverage to try and right some of the injustices and alleviate the dangerous and dire circumstances that many women and their children found themselves in due to the dereliction and/or criminality of the men in their lives. However, as the scripture says, the way that seemeth right to man/woman always leads to "death"....apart from the Lord the solution to one problem usually leads to other problems. But if there is no acknowledgement, understanding or sympathy for the reasons behind feminism then it just goes to show once again why it arose in the first place. A lot of men just seem to have no room in their thoughts to acknowledge the personhood of women....and they are unable to acknowledge or hold themselves accountable for their role in their suffering. We are often still thought of as little more than objects or machines for the convenience and use of men, either that or they consider us to be of the order of animals or aliens from another planet....and only a changed heart and PROPER instruction from the word of God can rectify those attitudes that come short of the glory of God. I'm not a feminist, and can see by God's grace that the movement took on a 'life' of its own that it shouldn't have, aka a wrong spirit.........however I certainly don't condemn women for trying to better their untenuous life circumstances, or withhold acknowledgment and understanding as to why feminism came to be. If man is the head of the woman.......who do we think God will hold most accountable for the rise of feminism? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis1209 Posted October 18, 2019 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 18 Topic Count: 347 Topics Per Day: 0.13 Content Count: 7,458 Content Per Day: 2.70 Reputation: 5,372 Days Won: 1 Joined: 09/27/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted October 18, 2019 29 minutes ago, maryjayne said: This is not about envy, this is about justice. Something God views as important. It is not Just that a woman should have lower pay, longer hours and harsher conditions in order to earn enough to raise her family due to her gender. There are many single women out there. Single by choice, single by circumstances, single due to being deserted or through widowhood. Why should they have to struggle harder than a man? And there are married women who have spouses who cannot, for various reasons, work. I think that we should support Justice in all its manifestations, regardless of whether we are suffering personally or not from that injustice. In America in this day and age; I don't know what occupations you may be referring to with harsher conditions, lower pay and longer hours than men? Please expound. But anyway: America so far is a capitalistic society, quickly drifting toward a socialistic society. Entrepreneur's risk their own capitol and well being to create companies for profit. In doing so they provide the needed jobs for people to support their own families. How many poor people provide jobs and job opportunities? This generates growth, income, opportunities they didn't have; contributes to the economy, society and tax base. That company or industry wasn't created out of love for humanity or the purpose of providing a living for someone. It was created because of a need for something and that need is provided with the intent of making a profit. If a certain percentage of profit is not realized, the company folds and goes bankrupt. Whom is the government or anyone else; to tell me whom I should hire, how much I should pay them, and what benefits I should provide? I didn't risk everything I own to pacify your wants and demands. You know the work, hours, pay and benefits; take it or leave it and go elsewhere if you don't like it. You came to me, I didn't come to you, life is not fair. Will my business survive worrying about your personal problems and situation you found yourself in? Will your life be any better tripling your pay at McDonald's flipping burgers for $15.00 per hour, when the Big Mac is $9.50 to cover the cost of unskilled labor increases? In secular world business, your worth is determined by your skill, potential production, education, what you bring to the table to better the business and profits; not you owes me a living. Why should they have to struggle harder than a man? Because they're not a man... 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis1209 Posted October 19, 2019 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 18 Topic Count: 347 Topics Per Day: 0.13 Content Count: 7,458 Content Per Day: 2.70 Reputation: 5,372 Days Won: 1 Joined: 09/27/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted October 19, 2019 16 hours ago, maryjayne said: Why is it ok for them to struggle harder than a male counterpart, due to their gender? Because weight and gravity hasn't changed. Two hundred pounds or whatever, is still 200 lbs. Why do women struggle more than men with physical things? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heleadethme Posted October 19, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 15 Topic Count: 13 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,371 Content Per Day: 1.36 Reputation: 3,267 Days Won: 5 Joined: 07/10/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted October 19, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, nzkev said: Seen you started with nope. Ok well lets have some fun... and start with this verse Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law Look forward to the discussion Yep. (heh ) Not to teach or usurp authority. I fully agree. Men are to lead meetings, initiate evangelical outreaches, and teach/preach doctrine...etc. They are the driving force in the church. Women, however, can pray and prophesy....subject to authority. And we are commanded to watch, pray and discern. As fellow heirs of the kingdom we receive spiritual gifts along with the men. We are not passive partners in the kingdom of God, but we are to be submitted to and covered by male authority. And as an help meet for our husbands, we would be remiss if we didn't help him to make the right decisions at times....offer our discernment, Godly wisdom, our observations, be a sounding board, warn if we see danger, etc. I don't see where we are called to be passive onlookers in the kingdom of God and in our husband's life. But no we certainly are not to take over running assembly meetings and I'm not in favour of the current trend called Co-Pastoring with their pastor husbands....where do we see that in scripture? I believe women are to keep more in the background with our helping. On that note I'd like to offer some wisdom from the Lord concerning how to deal with abuse of women and children in the body of Christ. How about, instead of participating in a conspiracy of silence (aka DARKNESS) and telling the wife to go home and "submit" to being abused until she is dead, why not just OBEY THE SCRIPTURES that deal with discipline in the church? In other words, walk in the light and deal with the problem. Go to the one who is sinning, just between the two of you, and if no repentance bring two or three, and if still no repentance, bring the perpetrator before the whole church (aka shine that LIGHT brightly), and if still no repentance, bar him from fellowship and give him over to Satan that his soul may be saved (if he ever really was). In the meantime of course the woman and her children need to be protected and provided for by her brothers/fathers in the church. (Separation being an allowable option in scripture.) The church under the leadership of men have failed MISERABLY to protect the females in their midst, but instead become fellow participants in the kingdom of darkness with the one who is sinning. So as a woman I want to take this opportunity to offer that little bit of Godly wisdom. And by all means please test it and verify it by the word of God. Edited October 19, 2019 by Heleadethme Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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