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The Trouble with Tribulation


JoeCanada

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I understand what you guys are saying, now. If this is so and its all based on the meaning of ἀποστασία---then the Church will not see the revealing of the man of perdition. This assuming that the restraining factor is the Church.

Do I have this right?

2Th. 2:1 Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. 3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.

 

2Th. 2:5   Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? 6 And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time. 7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way. 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, 12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

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One thing I've learned over the years is the pre-trib crowd can "make it up as the go" and have no thought of the damage they do to the word of God. 

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23 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

It means "departing;" Which can be a departing from the faith OR a departing in general: It is a compound word:
APO   a departing of a PART from a WHOLE

Stasia  a standing as if not moving.

at the rapture, a PART of the WHOLE is going to be taken out of the way SO FAST it will be as if the rest of the world did not move: were stationary.

This makes absolutely no sense grammatically in the context of the passage, any child can tell you this. What you are saying is that our rapture is contingent upon our departing coming first this makes no sense.

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Looking at the word ἀποστασία and where else it is used it only shows up one other time in the NT and twice in the old using the LXX.

There is always the connotation of rebellion and departure from the truth.

 

Acts 21:21 but they have been informed about you that you teach all the Jews who are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses,

Josh. 22:22 God even God is the Lord, and God even God himself knows, and Israel he shall know; if we have transgressed before the Lord by apostasy, let him not deliver us this day.

2Chr. 29:19 and all the vessels which king Achaz polluted in his reign, in his apostasy, we have prepared and purified: behold, they are before the altar of the Lord.

 

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Just now, Alive said:

Looking at the word ἀποστασία and where else it is used it only shows up one other time in the NT and twice in the old using the LXX.

There is always the connotation of rebellion and departure from the truth.

That is the correct way grammatically to translate this word as well. 

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Just now, dhchristian said:

That is the correct way grammatically to translate this word as well. 

I just looked through a great deal of reference resources and can't find anything but.

When I say a great deal--I am not exaggerating. I have at my finger tips a vast amount of resources.

Since getting Accordance 15 years ago--I have collected a ton. It is very helpful.

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3 minutes ago, Alive said:

Looking at the word ἀποστασία and where else it is used it only shows up one other time in the NT and twice in the old using the LXX.

There is always the connotation of rebellion and departure from the truth.

 

Acts 21:21 but they have been informed about you that you teach all the Jews who are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses,

Josh. 22:22 God even God is the Lord, and God even God himself knows, and Israel he shall know; if we have transgressed before the Lord by apostasy, let him not deliver us this day.

2Chr. 29:19 and all the vessels which king Achaz polluted in his reign, in his apostasy, we have prepared and purified: behold, they are before the altar of the Lord.

 

Because that's what it means, that's a fact the per-trib crowd can't except. 

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Just now, Alive said:

I just looked through a great deal of reference resources and can't find anything but.

When I say a great deal--I am not exaggerating. I have at my finger tips a vast amount of resources.

Since getting Accordance 15 years ago--I have collected a ton. It is very helpful.

The falling away from the truth is discussed in many other scriptures besides 2 thess, 2:3 There is mention in Daniel 12, 1 Timothy, 2 timothy, etc, I can look them up if you want to. Those who do not love the truth will be prone t the strong delusion as per 2 thess. 2:8-12

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Just for giggles....only in these two passages.

John 17:12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in Your name. Those whom You gave Me I have kept; and none of them is lost except the son of perdition, that the Scripture might be fulfilled.

 

2Th. 2:3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition,

And only here.......

2Th. 2:3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition,

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8 minutes ago, dhchristian said:

The falling away from the truth is discussed in many other scriptures besides 2 thess, 2:3 There is mention in Daniel 12, 1 Timothy, 2 timothy, etc, I can look them up if you want to. Those who do not love the truth will be prone t the strong delusion as per 2 thess. 2:8-12

No need--I just pulled up those and many more across the old and new.

Lots of cross references in Daniel and Jeremiah as connected to the NT references.

As I have said before, I have not spent time in the past on these things.

I think perhaps, maybe I will---Lord willing.

I have read on this forum in the last weeks---a number of things that seem very strange to me and bear searching out.

At this point, I am inclined to see the Lord coming for us mid-week, but we will see.

Again--I have never really studied it, as my attention has been elsewhere.

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