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iamlamad

Can we determine the TIMING of the Rapture from Paul?

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1 Thes. 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

 

5:1But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.

For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

Notice here that Paul wrote of the Day of the Lord just 3 verses after his famous rapture verse. Why would Paul do that. Further, he said that "the Day" would come "as a thief." Yet, there is another scripture that Christ comes "as a thief."  Why would Paul write that? 

The answer is very simple, the rapture will be the TRIGGER for the DAy of the Lord. The moment after the rapture, it is be DAY OF THE LORD. The DAY will come as a thief because HE will come as a thief for the rapture - which will take very little time, and the Day will come - SUDDENLY  - and with no warning.  Paul goes on:

For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

Now we have more information: the rapture / Day of the Lord, will come at a time people are saying "peace and safety." ... perhaps a day just like today.  But the DAY will start with "sudden destruction."

What is Paul's "sudden Destruction" that comes a moment after the rapture and starts the Day of the Lord? Paul goes on:

 

But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.

Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.

Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.

For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.

But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.

Here Paul is giving us a paradigm: a comparison of two things brought right up in front of us so we can easily see it: Paul tells us those living "In Christ" will get "salvation" or be caught up. But at the same moment in time, those left behind will be "sudden destruction.

 

For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him. (so shall we ever be with the Lord.)

Notice, those who are living "in Christ" are NOT appointed to wrath, but this coin has a flip side: those NOT living "in Christ" ARE appointed to wrath - that is the sudden destruction. 

What then IS this "sudden destruction."  Notice, when God raises the dead, there seems to be a  corresponding earthquake. In Matthew 27 he wrote, "the earth did quake...and the graves were opened." There will be an earthquake when God raises the two witnesses. I am convinced, when God raises the dead in Christ, it is going to cause a great earthquake, but since the dead in Christ are the world around, it is going to be the first worldwide earthquake. And, it will be Paul's Sudden destruction. Several people who have had dreams/visions of the rapture tell that the ground began to shake just as they were caught up. 

If we look in Revelation, where do we find the first big earthquake? That would be at the 6th seal and at the start of the Day of the Lord. Wow! That is just what Paul wrote!

If we back up to the 5th seal, for the martyrs of the church age, they are told they must wait a long time, unto all those who will be killed as they were - as church age martyrs - so until the final number is complete. THEN judgment will come. 

What does John write next? Of course the 6th seal when the judgment does begin! Therefore, according to Paul and John, the rapture MUST come between the 5th and 6th seals. And the great earthquake of the 6th seal will be caused by the dead in Christ rising - and it will be Paul's "sudden destruction."

Paul DOES give us the timing of the rapture: it will come a moment before the Day of the Lord begins.

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People will yell peace n safety after antichrist is launched to conquer the word with peace by the 1st seal opening, rapture takes place be4 this.

Edited by R. Hartono

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The timing, from what I have found through study, states in both 1 Thessalonians 4:1`5-16 and 1 Corinthians 15:51-53 is at the last trumpet.  Whether that is the last trumpet of the feast of trumpets, or the 7th trumpet judgment (since that is the last time a trumpet pertaining to God is mentioned in the bible), I am not sure.

As how close the rapture is to the Day of the Lord, I'll leave that up to those who spend hours in prophecy to debate.

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2 minutes ago, OneLight said:

The timing, from what I have found through study, states in both 1 Thessalonians 4:1`5-16 and 1 Corinthians 15:51-53 is at the last trumpet.  Whether that is the last trumpet of the feast of trumpets, or the 7th trumpet judgment (since that is the last time a trumpet pertaining to God is mentioned in the bible),

If rapture takes place at the last trumpet of 7 then it can be predicted, but the trumpet of rapture is not the 7 trumpet of judgment.

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2 minutes ago, R. Hartono said:

If rapture takes place at the last trumpet of 7 then it can be predicted, but the trumpet of rapture is not the 7 trumpet of judgment.

I'm not sold on that either as nobody knows when the 7th trumpet of judgment will be blown.

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1 minute ago, OneLight said:

I'm not sold on that either as nobody knows when the 7th trumpet of judgment will be blown.

When third part of the grass n trees of the world is burnt, you Will smell the smoke.

 

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Just now, R. Hartono said:

When third part of the grass n trees of the world is burnt, you Will smell the smoke.

 

Still it will be just like a thief in the night as nobody knows when it will happen, even if you use a check list of prior events.  We know the season, and as event unfold more, we know it is closer, but nothing can determine the day nor hour.

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5 hours ago, iamlamad said:

1 Thes. 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

 

5:1But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.

For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

Notice here that Paul wrote of the Day of the Lord just 3 verses after his famous rapture verse. Why would Paul do that. Further, he said that "the Day" would come "as a thief." Yet, there is another scripture that Christ comes "as a thief."  Why would Paul write that? 

The answer is very simple, the rapture will be the TRIGGER for the DAy of the Lord. The moment after the rapture, it is be DAY OF THE LORD. The DAY will come as a thief because HE will come as a thief for the rapture - which will take very little time, and the Day will come - SUDDENLY  - and with no warning.  Paul goes on:

For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

Now we have more information: the rapture / Day of the Lord, will come at a time people are saying "peace and safety." ... perhaps a day just like today.  But the DAY will start with "sudden destruction."

What is Paul's "sudden Destruction" that comes a moment after the rapture and starts the Day of the Lord? Paul goes on:

 

But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.

Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.

Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.

For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.

But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.

Here Paul is giving us a paradigm: a comparison of two things brought right up in front of us so we can easily see it: Paul tells us those living "In Christ" will get "salvation" or be caught up. But at the same moment in time, those left behind will be "sudden destruction.

 

For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him. (so shall we ever be with the Lord.)

Notice, those who are living "in Christ" are NOT appointed to wrath, but this coin has a flip side: those NOT living "in Christ" ARE appointed to wrath - that is the sudden destruction. 

What then IS this "sudden destruction."  Notice, when God raises the dead, there seems to be a  corresponding earthquake. In Matthew 27 he wrote, "the earth did quake...and the graves were opened." There will be an earthquake when God raises the two witnesses. I am convinced, when God raises the dead in Christ, it is going to cause a great earthquake, but since the dead in Christ are the world around, it is going to be the first worldwide earthquake. And, it will be Paul's Sudden destruction. Several people who have had dreams/visions of the rapture tell that the ground began to shake just as they were caught up. 

If we look in Revelation, where do we find the first big earthquake? That would be at the 6th seal and at the start of the Day of the Lord. Wow! That is just what Paul wrote!

If we back up to the 5th seal, for the martyrs of the church age, they are told they must wait a long time, unto all those who will be killed as they were - as church age martyrs - so until the final number is complete. THEN judgment will come. 

What does John write next? Of course the 6th seal when the judgment does begin! Therefore, according to Paul and John, the rapture MUST come between the 5th and 6th seals. And the great earthquake of the 6th seal will be caused by the dead in Christ rising - and it will be Paul's "sudden destruction."

Paul DOES give us the timing of the rapture: it will come a moment before the Day of the Lord begins.

No, date setting or trying to determine when the rapture is going to happen is not biblical. It is going to happen in God's perfect timing. 

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9 hours ago, iamlamad said:

Paul DOES give us the timing of the rapture: it will come a moment before the Day of the Lord begins.

Correct!

But it's not pretrib, it's pre wrath. Pre 'sudden destruction', which is the wrath of the Lamb and not the whole of the last week.

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4 hours ago, missmuffet said:

No, date setting or trying to determine when the rapture is going to happen is not biblical. It is going to happen in God's perfect timing. 

It's not date setting, just ordering events in relation to one another, and accurately.

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