Can we determine the TIMING of the Rapture from Paul?

[Marilyn C]

Then we can see when the Day of the Lord - 7 year time period and also when the Lord returns.

The Prophet Daniel was given much revelation concerning the World Rulers, and the contemporary rulers, plus what will happen to Israel.

In Dan. 12: 12 we are told of a specific day, the most important day for Israel, the celebration of their deliverance as a nation.

`Blessed is he who waits, and comes to the 1,335 days.` (Dan. 12: 12)

This is the feast of Purim on the 15th day of the second of Adar. It is a fixed point and all other measurements can go back from there. Thus I believe that the Lord will return to deliver Israel on the evening of Friday the 8th January 2027.

In the Jewish calendar it is the last day, the 29th of Tevet. This is the month when Israel mourns the destruction of Jerusalem by the Babylonians. However it will have its fulfilment when the world`s armies surround Jerusalem and destroy much of it.

So 7 years before that, I see will be, 16th March 2020, or the 20th of Adar. And that is when I believe the Peace Treaty will be signed and the beginning of the tribulation starts. The Body of Christ will be gone before that as the BODY is the first rulership to be restored in all of God`s great kingdom.

Obviously wont have long to find that out. 

Marilyn.

[Revelation Man]

On 10/26/2019 at 4:32 AM, Diaste said:

Good story, but just imagination. There is zero biblical evidence for the above.

 

The bible proclaims just what I stated, you not being able to see it is on you brother.

On 10/26/2019 at 4:32 AM, Diaste said:

So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination of desolation,’described by the prophet Daniel (let the reader understand), then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. Let no one on the housetop come down to retrieve anything from his house. And let no one in the field return for his cloak.

How miserable those days will be for pregnant and nursing mothers! Pray that your flight will not occur in the winter or on the Sabbath. For at that time there will be great tribulation,"

Only after the A of D is there 'great tribulation'. This is an A of D associated with the end of the age and Jesus' coming, "“Tell us,” they said, “when will these things happen, and what will be the sign of Your coming and of the end of the age?”" 

And your point is what ? Everyone knows the Greatest Ever Troubles comes when the Lord Jesus opens the First Seal, thus allowing the Anti-Christ to go forth Conquering, thus becoming the Beast of the End Times, the 7th Head of the 7 Headed Beast. The problem is you conflate what John calls the Great Tribulation period {they came out of the Great Tribulation which specifies a PERIOD of time} with the Greatest ever Troubles. You, AND MANY OTHERS demand this can only mean the Greatest ever troubles, and that it can't mean the Greatest Ever Period of time, but I have news for you, only the greatest period of time {Church Age} matches what John is speaking of here. Its not God's fault that people confuse the two. 2000 years is greater than 7. THEY CAME OUT OF THE GREAT TRIBULATION means the Tribulation period of the Church Age. We know this by reading the bible, instead of adhering to Men's Traditions.

The 5th Seal Martyrs

Rev. 6:11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

So the Martyrs you guys of this thinking claim are those seen in Rev. 7:9-16 can't be the ones seen because they are specifically told they MUST WAIT until all their brothers have been killed/murdered in LIKE MANNER as they were, then God will give them the vengeance. That means they will be Judged when Jesus returns, do further scriptures confirm this ? Yes, of course. Who is Judged in Rev. 20:4 ? The Martyred who REFUSED the Mark of the Beast !!

Rev. 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

So why would the Martyrs under the Altar be seen in Rev. 7:9-16 when its clear they aren't judged until Rev. 20:4, after Jesus' returns brother ? Those seen in Rev. 7:9-16 are the Raptured Saints that came out of the Great Church Age Tribulation period of time. Jesus told us we would always gave tribulation, so what gives anyone the right to MANDATE God can't speak about GREAT in more ways than one ? The Greatest ever Period AND the Greatest Ever Troubles !! God can do both can't He ? So what fits best ? Well, those Jesus speaks to under the Altar are told they have to wait until all their brothers are killed in like manner as them, that means a 42 month Period in which the Beast is a tyrannical King of earth. Then we see in Rev. 20:4 that ONLY THOSE who refused thew Mark of the Beast will live and reign with Christ on earth for 1000 years, Pssttttt, that mean the rest of us {The Raptured Church} will go back to Heaven, I assume to finish off New Jerusalem. But those under the Altar only get Judged after Jesus returns, so Rev. 9 can't be them can it ?

Lastly, we all have Tribulation on this earth, many millions of Christians have died for Christ in order to form the Church of Christ Jesus. We thus ALL went through the Great Church Age Tribulation as in 2000 years is Greater than the last 7 years of the 7th Week so they cam out of the GREATER of the two periods. Instead we choose to try an limit God's vocabulary on what Great can mean. Remember, Great can describe many things, the troubles of a certain time period and the period of time {Church Age}. 

So it all depends on what is being spoken of brother, John via Jesus, via God is speaking of the Church Age Saints that were Raptured, not about the Martyrs of the 70th week who aren't judged until after Jesus Returns. We see the Saints that were Raptured in Heaven way before Jesus Returns. 

On 10/26/2019 at 4:32 AM, Diaste said:

In no way is it 2000 years as, "If those days had not been cut short, nobody would be saved" So either it all happened in the past and it's over or it's yet to come. It's yet to come. 

 

Again, you are conflating the Greatest ever Troubles and the 2000 years of Church Age Tribulation, which you must agree our brothers indeed went through !! It was a Great Tribulation Period. Its our fault we don't allow God to describe many things as GREAT. A period of time and a time of great troubles can both be the GREATEST EVER. And its very evident, those described can not be those under the Altar at the 5th Seal.

On 10/26/2019 at 4:32 AM, Diaste said:

Sure, if one conflates everything with everything else anything is possible. 

What I do is use the bible to show me who it CAN'T BE !! Instead of taking things for granted brother.  Those under the Altar can't be those seen in Rev. 7:9-16, its just not possible. Then God showed me, HEY.......All of my Church were in continual tribulation. Since we are speaking of a 70th week period which has 3.5 years of the Greatest Ever Troubles, describing the 2000 some odd year Church Period as the Great Tribulation Period is correct, its the greater of the two periods, the Church age Period. 

 

[Revelation Man]

On 10/26/2019 at 8:28 AM, Dennis1209 said:

1 Corinthians 15:52 (KJV) In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

I'm pretrib, no sense in trying to convince one another our view is the correct one; as I previously mentioned, we all have different hermeneutics and I understand them. I'm not sure about seven shofar blasts, it's just something I suspect based on Bible patterns. In the above verse, Paul is explaining the mystery of the Rapture. In the verse above it says 'at the last trump', therefore it stands to reason there were previous trumpets before the last one. Seven is the Biblical number for completeness and perfection.The number seven is used everywhere from the walls of Jericho [seven blasts and a shout] to the seven churches in Revelation 2 & 3. 

I also suspect the Rapture to occur on a Jewish feast / holiday. Based on the destruction of the Temple, slaughter and diaspora of 70 A.D., along with the tinkering and adjustments of the calendar, I also suspect their feast dates might not be the same. 

 

The Last Trump is speaking about the Feast of Trumps, its a pattern from Leviticus 23, God shows us the whole history in the 7 Feasts.

Spring Feasts that Jesus Fulfilled

1.) Passover = Jesus died for our sins that the Death Sentence would pass over us on judgment day.

2.) Unleavened Bread = Jesus was without sin.

3.) First-fruits = Jesus was the first fruits of the Grave.

 

4.) Feast of Week/Pentecost/Church Age = The Harvest, which we are doing now as the Church, we are harvesting souls for the Master. This Feast was ALL ALONE on the Calendar, just like the Church Age is an Entity all unto itself, everything else is about the Jews  The Feast of Trumps ALWAYS ENDED the Harvest !!  {Being fulfilled now of course, when the Last Trump sounds, the Harvest will end, Jesus calls us home to END THE HARVEST}

 

Yet to be fulfilled Fall Feasts

5.) The Feast of Trumps never did much of anything, except announce things, the Harvest is OVER and Atonement is Nigh at hand.

6.) Feast of Atonement = The Jews HAVE TO ATONE before the 70th week is over, just as the Prophecy stipulated, so of course Israel must repent or atone at this point in time, during the 70th week. Malachi 4:5-6 tells us that they will repent BEFORE the Day of the Lord comes {Middle of the Week or 1260}.

7. Feast of Tabernacle = To tabernacle with God means to DWELL WITH God, so since Jesus is going to rule from Jerusalem for 1000 years, does God not DWELL with Israel ? Of course he does.

 

So we are given the whole history on mankind in the 7 Feasts. Jesus will come, die without sins, be raised from the Dead, the Gentiles will be given the mantle to take the Gospel unto all the World during the Church Age Harvest, THEN at the Last Trump the Harvest ends and we are called home, finally, the Jews must REPENT, and after Jesus returns he will dwell in Jerusalem for 1000 years.

The LAST TRUMP is a Metaphor for the Church age ending, and the 70th Week beginning. 

Edited October 30, 2019 by Revelation Man

[iamlamad]

23 hours ago, JoeCanada said:

iamlamad,

Why would anyone look in the Old Testament for answers ........And you call yourself a teacher and give this statement?

There are many similarities between Revelation and the Old Testament. In fact, Revelation alludes to 24 of the 39 Old Testament books. Study to shown yourself approved! By having a good knowledge of the Old Testament a person will have an easier time understanding the book of Revelation, especially Isaiah, Daniel and Zechariah

the book of Revelation gives a very clear answer?............ I'm still waiting for that "clear answer"

If you take Isa. 34:8 literally, His anger is only ONE DAY! It is not speaking of a 24 hour day.  Perhaps Isaiah was writing of the "Day of the Lord," which is an extended period of time also called the Day of His wrath.............. Yes, he was writing of the Day of the Lord. Yes, it is an extended period of time. Yes, it is also called the Day of His Wrath. They all begin in a "DAY"..... and, as Isaiah has shown not once but 3 times, the "DAY" runs for a "YEAR". The same as the Lord tells us regarding "As in the days of Noah"......the same as Deut tells us that a man stays home and looks after his bride for a year. Since Jesus was a Jew, He will hold to many Jewish customs. 

In Revelation we see that He starts the DAy of His wrath at the 6th seal.............. The "day" of His wrath is not initiated until the blowing of the first trumpet. The unbelievers run and hide in fear because they see the Lord coming and they know that His wrath follows. But it hasn't started yet. It's the day of Resurrection and Rapture for all the believers, then His wrath.

There is no verse anywhere that tells us He gets over being angry anywere in the middle of the week. Therefore, His anger goes for the entire week.........

Circular reasoning.........weak argument at best

every trumpet judgment comes with wrath, and every vial filled with His wrath............By golly, on this we agree

Sorry, but Daniel and Revelation both show the time of the 70th week (which is INSIDE the DAy of the Lord) runs for 7 years, making the the DAY run longer than that. My guess is, the Day of the Lord will extend through the millennial reign. This means what you THINK those verses in Isaiah are saying is not what the Author meant. 

OK, SHOW is where God gets over His anger. If not, then BELIEVE it starts at the 6th seal and goes to the end of the week.

What you have missed:  The 70th week (inside the Day of the Lord) is marked by 7's: the 7th seal starts the week with the 30 minutes of silence, the 7th trumpet marks the midpoint and the 7th vial ends it. So the DAY is AT the very LEAST over 7 years long. The trumpet judgments come in the first half of the week (the first 6) and the vials late in the second half of the week.

 

I don't disagree with those that say His wrath begins with the first trumpet: I suspect the first trumpet is maybe 10 days after the 6th seal. (10 days of Awe.)

Edited October 28, 2019 by iamlamad

[The Light]

On 10/26/2019 at 11:33 PM, Marilyn C said:

Then we can see when the Day of the Lord - 7 year time period and also when the Lord returns.

 

The Day of the Lord is 1000 years long, not 7 years. The 70th week of Daniel is 7 years. This 7 years is the tribulation period, which occurs before the Wrath of God.

[The Light]

On 10/27/2019 at 8:31 PM, Revelation Man said:

The Last Trump is speaking about the Feast of Trumps, its a pattern from Leviticus 23, God shows us the whole history in the 7 Feasts.

Spring Feasts that Jesus Fulfilled

1.) Passover = Jesus died for our sins that the Death Sentence would pass over us on judgment day.

2.) Unleavened Bread = Jesus was without sin.

3.) First-fruits = Jesus was the first fruits of the Grave.

 

4.) Feast of Week/Pentecost/Church Age = The Harvest, which we are doing now as the Church, we are harvesting souls for the Master. This Feast was ALL ALONE on the Calendar, just like the Church Age is an Entity all unto itself, everything else is about the Jews  The Feast of Trumps ALWAYS ENDED the Harvest !!  {Being fulfilled now of course, when the Last Trump sounds, the Harvest will end, Jesus calls us home to END THE HARVEST}

 

 

Pentecost is an unfulfilled harvest feast. The harvest will be the Church and the dead in Christ which will be raptured pre trib. The GOODMAN will not know when the master will come.

The last trump will be blown on the Feast of Trumpets. The twelve tribes will be raptured as they will no longer be in darkness. Once the fulness of the Gentiles comes in, their eyes will be opened.

Rom 11

²⁵ For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

That day will not take them unaware. They are to look up, their redemption draws nigh.

[Marilyn C]

1 hour ago, The Light said:

The Day of the Lord is 1000 years long, not 7 years. The 70th week of Daniel is 7 years. This 7 years is the tribulation period, which occurs before the Wrath of God.

Hi The Light,

Yes I agree that the Day of the Lord time period is a thousand years and also the 7 years of the trib. Thank you for reminding me.

Marilyn.

[Revelation Man]

5 hours ago, The Light said:

Pentecost is an unfulfilled harvest feast. The harvest will be the Church and the dead in Christ which will be raptured pre trib. The GOODMAN will not know when the master will come.

The last trump will be blown on the Feast of Trumpets. The twelve tribes will be raptured as they will no longer be in darkness. Once the fulness of the Gentiles comes in, their eyes will be opened.

Rom 11

²⁵ For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

That day will not take them unaware. They are to look up, their redemption draws nigh.

The Jews who are IN Jesus like Paul, John, Peter etc. all, will be Raptured with the Church. The Jews whom the Two-witnesses call unto Repentance as Zechariah 13:8-9 says {1/3 will repent, 2/3 will perish} will be Protected in the Petra/Bozrah area, by God for 1260 days {Israel = the Woman}. The Gentiles who repent will be the Remnant Church seen in Rev. 12:17. Both Jews and Gentiles must come to God by FAITH ALONE. Abraham did, we do, the Jews of the Tribulation do to, by heeding the Two-witnesses and the Remnant Gentile Church does also, during the Tribulation. So there is NO DIFFERENCE. We all must come BY FAITH. Timing is irrelevant.

Edited October 30, 2019 by Revelation Man

[The Light]

21 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

Quote

The Jews who are IN Jesus like Paul, John, Peter etc. all, will be Raptured with the Church.

Of course. They will be included with the dead in Christ.

Quote

The Jews whom the Two-witnesses call unto Repentance as Zechariah 13:8-9 says {1/3 will repent, 2/3 will perish} will be Protected in the Petra/Bozrah area, by God for 1260 days {Israel = the Woman}.

Exactly. This occurs during the wrath of God. As you said, those Jews go through the wrath of God in a place of protection.

Quote

The Gentiles who repent will be the Remnant Church seen in Rev. 12:17.

That is not the remnant church. The Church has been removed from the earth in the pretribulation rapture as we can see in Rev 5: 9-10

 

Quote

Both Jews and Gentiles must come to God by FAITH ALONE.

Exactly. First the Gentiles in the pretribulation rapture. This is the early summer harvest, Pentecost. When this occurs the fulness of the Gentiles will come in and the eyes of the Jews will be opened. Rom 11:25.

The Jew will see that the Church is gone in the summer harvest. When the rest of the world is claiming that aliens have come, the twelve tribes that are scattered across the earth will see the truth.

Jer 8

²⁰ The harvest is past, the summer is ended, and we are not saved.

 

21 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

Abraham did, we do, the Jews of the Tribulation do to, by heeding the Two-witnesses and the Remnant Gentile Church does also, during the Tribulation. So there is NO DIFFERENCE. We all must come BY FAITH. Timing is irrelevant.

 

Yes, all must come to the Lamb by faith. However timing is everything. The Pentecost early summer harvest of the Church. Then the fall fruit harvest, when the twelve tribes are told to look up, their redemption draws nigh. This will occur on the Feast of Trumpets, Rosh Hashanah. Then those who have fled in Israel, as instructed, will go through the Wrath of God. Timing is as the Word says.

[The Light]

On 10/29/2019 at 7:35 PM, Marilyn C said:

Hi The Light,

Yes I agree that the Day of the Lord time period is a thousand years and also the 7 years of the trib. Thank you for reminding me.

Marilyn.

Hi Marilyn,

The 70th week of Daniel, the 7 year tribulation period which begins with the opening of the 1st seal, does not occur during the 1000 year Day of the Lord.