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Can we determine the TIMING of the Rapture from Paul?


iamlamad

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44 minutes ago, The Light said:

Hi Marilyn,

The 70th week of Daniel, the 7 year tribulation period which begins with the opening of the 1st seal, does not occur during the 1000 year Day of the Lord.

Hi The Light,

So let`s see what God`s word says -

`But the Day of the Lord will come

1. as a thief in the night,

2. in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise; ....` (2 Peter 3: 10)

So there we are told the beginning and the end of the Day of the Lord.

The beginning - the start of the tribulation, 7 years.

The end - at the end of the millennium. (1,000 years)

Marilyn.

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10 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi The Light,

So let`s see what God`s word says -

`But the Day of the Lord will come

1. as a thief in the night,

2. in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise; ....` (2 Peter 3: 10)

So there we are told the beginning and the end of the Day of the Lord.

The beginning - the start of the tribulation, 7 years.

The end - at the end of the millennium. (1,000 years)

Marilyn.

Hi again Marilyn,

I see absolutely nothing that says the 7 years starts at the Day of the Lord.

We see the coming of the Day of the Lord here.

Rev 6

12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

 

The seals are the 7 year tribulation period. We can see at the end of the 6th seal that the day of His wrath is come.

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On 10/24/2019 at 7:43 PM, iamlamad said:

Notice here that Paul wrote of the Day of the Lord just 3 verses after his famous rapture verse. Why would Paul do that. Further, he said that "the Day" would come "as a thief." Yet, there is another scripture that Christ comes "as a thief."  Why would Paul write that? 

The answer is very simple, the rapture will be the TRIGGER for the DAy of the Lord. The moment after the rapture, it is be DAY OF THE LORD. The DAY will come as a thief because HE will come as a thief for the rapture - which will take very little time, and the Day will come - SUDDENLY  - and with no warning.  Paul goes on:

Hi Iamlamad,

The reason why I disagree with this assumption is because that Phrase "come as a thief is also used in relation to the sixth plague as well. Here is the verse.

Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame. (Rev. 16:15)

Again, this is after the sixth plague and before the seventh plague. It is my strong opinion that the time of "peace and safety" is those 3 and half days between when the two witnesses are killed, and that they are resurrected, and there too, we see a great earthquake. And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth. And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them. And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven. (Rev 11:10-13) 

There are three mentions of a great earthquake in revelation, once at the sixth seal, once at the seventh trumpet, and once at the seventh plague. I Believe the first two sync, but the one at the seventh plague is diverse, and coincides with the earthquakes of the seventh seal, seventh trumpet. 

As for the said topic, of Paul and the timing of the rapture, I believe 2 thess. 2 deals with this more than 1 thess. 4. I often wonder if Paul had access to the Words of Jesus in the Olivet discourse?.... I am sure he did, because 2 thess. 2 Parallels that perfectly.  

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5 hours ago, dhchristian said:

Hi Iamlamad,

The reason why I disagree with this assumption is because that Phrase "come as a thief is also used in relation to the sixth plague as well. Here is the verse.

Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame. (Rev. 16:15)

Again, this is after the sixth plague and before the seventh plague. It is my strong opinion that the time of "peace and safety" is those 3 and half days between when the two witnesses are killed, and that they are resurrected, and there too, we see a great earthquake. And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth. And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them. And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven. (Rev 11:10-13) 

There are three mentions of a great earthquake in revelation, once at the sixth seal, once at the seventh trumpet, and once at the seventh plague. I Believe the first two sync, but the one at the seventh plague is diverse, and coincides with the earthquakes of the seventh seal, seventh trumpet. 

As for the said topic, of Paul and the timing of the rapture, I believe 2 thess. 2 deals with this more than 1 thess. 4. I often wonder if Paul had access to the Words of Jesus in the Olivet discourse?.... I am sure he did, because 2 thess. 2 Parallels that perfectly.  

I am amazed you did not recognize 16:15 as a parenthesis.

3 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.

14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.

(15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.)

16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.

In other words He does not come right then. His coming is shown in chapter 18.  This is written, not only as a parenthesis, but it is also prophecy.

I don't think any of the Gospels were written when Paul wrote 2 Thes! However, Paul got much of his information via revelation knowledge: God told him!

As you know, I see most of the info of the two witnesses written as a parenthesis, and that they are killed just 3.5 days before the end of the week. Therefore I see the great earthquake at their resurrection as the very same earthquake at the 7th vial that ends the week. They are resurrected with all the rest of the Old Testament saints: "at the last day."

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3 hours ago, iamlamad said:

In other words He does not come right then. His coming is shown in chapter 18.  This is written, not only as a parenthesis, but it is also prophecy.

I don't think any of the Gospels were written when Paul wrote 2 Thes! However, Paul got much of his information via revelation knowledge: God told him!

As you know, I see most of the info of the two witnesses written as a parenthesis, and that they are killed just 3.5 days before the end of the week. Therefore I see the great earthquake at their resurrection as the very same earthquake at the 7th vial that ends the week. They are resurrected with all the rest of the Old Testament saints: "at the last day."

Again, There is no parenthesis in that verse, But one added by you. (Rev 16;15)

Again, Rev. 18 is a different vision, which syncs with the seventh trumpet, seal and vial, so I have no issue here. 

Please respond to what I wrote about the earthquakes as well. Curious to hear your take on this. As I said these are all evidences for how I see revelation unfold.  

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23 hours ago, The Light said:

That is not the remnant church. The Church has been removed from the earth in the pretribulation rapture as we can see in Rev 5: 9-10

 

You missed the OPERATIVE WORD.....REMNANT :mgdetective: Church. That denotes it as being a SMALL part of something not around anymore. Like a Remnant of a Dress would be a part of a Dress, but not the whole dress. The Church is indeed in Heaven, in Rev. 4 and 5 before the Seals are opened. I have a way of proving who it is to all sides, you see some insist its a Remnant of Jews, but it can't be, some mistakenly see it that way, I used to also but WATCH:

The Dragon {via the Anti-Christ army} chases the Woman {Israel} into the wilderness, when he can;t get at HER he gets angry and goes after thee REMNANT of her SEED {Jesus is the seed, see Gal. 3} who have the TESTIMONY of Jesus AND keep the Commandments of God. So who can this be ? It can only be a Remnant Gentile Church, you know why ? It CAN NOT be anyone Jewish, so it has to be the Martyrs under the 5th Seal/Remnant Church who come to Christ AFTER the Rapture.  Here's why, WATCH:

The 1/3 of the Jews who Repent, the Dragon/Anti-Christ can't get at, so it can;t be them can it ? And the 2/3 who do not Repent do not have the TESTIMONY of Jesus, NOR do they keep the Commandments of God. AMEN.........Catch that brother, its the Gentile Church/Remnant of the Church that is in Heaven {Me and you are in Heaven, with John, Paul, etc. etc.}. Now reread it, it will make perfect sense. 

23 hours ago, The Light said:

Exactly. First the Gentiles in the pretribulation rapture. This is the early summer harvest, Pentecost. When this occurs the fulness of the Gentiles will come in and the eyes of the Jews will be opened. Rom 11:25.

The Jew will see that the Church is gone in the summer harvest. When the rest of the world is claiming that aliens have come, the twelve tribes that are scattered across the earth will see the truth.

Jer 8

20 The harvest is past, the summer is ended, and we are not saved.

The Jews were already Married to God, he DIVORCED THEM, we must go to Heaven to Marry the Lamb. So the Jews don't need to be Harvested per se, they need to ATONE !! Hence the Last Trump sounds which ends the Harvest and announces ATONEMENT is night at hand. They must atone before the 70th week ends according to Daniel 9. 

The Jews will indeed see the Christian Church disappear but it will not be by leaving this earth with our bodies, so they can't nor do they claim Aliens, people have 1 Cor. 15 all wrong. WE DIE, our Spirit goes to be with the Lord {hence we CHANGE in the twinkling of an eye}. Flesh can not enter Heaven !! When Mary saw Jesus in John ch. 20 he told her TOUCH ME NOT, for I have not yet ascended to the Father {to offer the Sacrifice}, hence her very touch would have defiled the Sacrifice. No sin Flesh will enter Heaven. That is what it means by the DEAD will be raised without CORRUPTION {They are Raised as Spirit men}. We are then changed {We die and become Spirit Men}. So there will be 100's of Millions of dead bodies, which the ungodly people will say was a CURSE brought only unto Christians or something like that. Or they will just say it was a Plague, either way, the Jews and others should be able to see it was only Christians. The 1/3 Repent, they are the 144,000 or ALL Israel. 

On 10/30/2019 at 7:44 PM, The Light said:

Yes, all must come to the Lamb by faith. However timing is everything. The Pentecost early summer harvest of the Church. Then the fall fruit harvest, when the twelve tribes are told to look up, their redemption draws nigh. This will occur on the Feast of Trumpets, Rosh Hashanah. Then those who have fled in Israel, as instructed, will go through the Wrath of God. Timing is as the Word says.

I meant the TIMING to how we come to God is irrelevant. Many people think God is just going to return and SAVE the Jews without them Repenting first, that's just not true. All men who come to God, whether in Abraham's time, David's time, Jesus' time, a 1000 years ago, today, or during the 70th week, be they Jew or Gentile, they all must come to God by FAITH ALONE. 

The Jews will actually not go through the Wrath of God, they will kinda be in the "Ark" so to speak. The Flood is the Wrath. You are basically spot on on everything brother. I have just been shown some additional things in these last few years.

God Bless......Bounce whatever you like off me, we seem to be on the same page for the most part.

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1 hour ago, dhchristian said:

Again, There is no parenthesis in that verse, But one added by you. (Rev 16;15)

Again, Rev. 18 is a different vision, which syncs with the seventh trumpet, seal and vial, so I have no issue here. 

Please respond to what I wrote about the earthquakes as well. Curious to hear your take on this. As I said these are all evidences for how I see revelation unfold.  

The ancient Greek had no parenthesis marks. So there are no marks, but there is certainly a parenthesis. One day you will find out.  Did you not see how the before and after verses fit together?

13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.

14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.

 

16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.

 

Verse 13  about demons sent out to accomplish the devil's plans

Verse 14 tell us what they are to do: to gather the armies of the world to Armageddon.

Verse 16 tells us it has been accomplished.

Verse 15 was of a totally different subject. It is a parenthesis. Satan will not need or want Jesus coming to draw in the armies of the world.

 

Here is another that can be recognized the same way:

 

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

(5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished.) This is the first resurrection.

 

The "first resurrection" goes with them reigning with Christ for a thousand years, not rest of the dead not loving again.

See how easy some parentheses are to spot?

The earthquake at the 6th seal comes BEFORE the 70th week. The earthquake at the 7th vial comes to END the week. These two are separated by over 7 years.  Since 11:4 through 11:13 is a parenthesis, the two witnesses show up and begin to testify just 3.5 days before the exact midpoint of the week. They testify for 1260 days, which will take them to just 3.5 days before the END of the week (the 7th vial.) they are killed and lay dead those 3.5 days. You do understand, the two witnesses will be OLD TESTAMENT saints. So they rise with all the rest of the Old Testament saints - on the last day and at the 7th vial. Therefore the earthquake when they rise is the very same earthquake when all the Old Testament saints rise.

 

Rev. 18 syncs with chapter 17 which comes after chapter 16. I don't think it is a separate vision.

 

What you suggest is simply IMPOSSIBLE! I am amazed you have not seen this yet. You cannot align  the 7th seal with the 7th trumpet or the 7th vial. The seals have one main purpose: to SEAL THE BOOK. When they are opened they are then forgotten. Once the 7th seal is opened, there is no more mention of the seals for the rest of the book: their purpose is done and over with. When opened, they allow the BOOK to be opened, and the book so far more important than the seals that sealed it. So once the book is open, then and ONLY THEN can any trumpet be sounded. Therefore it is impossible for the 7th seal to align with the 7th trumpet, for the 7th trumpet will most certainly be 3.5 years AFTER the 7th seal.  One day you will see this. This theory is certainly an issue - you just don't know it yet!

Edited by iamlamad
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47 minutes ago, Revelation Man said:
Quote

You missed the OPERATIVE WORD.....REMNANT :mgdetective: Church. That denotes it as being a SMALL part of something not around anymore. Like a Remnant of a Dress would be a part of a Dress, but not the whole dress. The Church is indeed in Heaven, in Rev. 4 and 5 before the Seals are opened. I have a way of proving who it is to all sides, you see some insist its a Remnant of Jews, but it can't be, some mistakenly see it that way, I used to also but WATCH:

They are of the 12 tribes brother.

Matt 24

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

When the dragon goes after the remnant of her seed, he is going after the those left in the 12 tribes that are scattered across the earth. The church is in heaven in Rev 5. The fulness of the Gentiles comes in and the blindness is taken from the Jews (12 tribes). 144000 witness to the 12 tribes that are across the earth. Throughout the the 7 years there are many that are killed. However, when the abomination of desolation is set up toward the end of the 7 years, the dragon goes after the remnant of her seed as the woman (the Jews in the nation of Israel) have fled and go to a place of protection. There would be no flesh saved (no alive believers to be raptured in the prewrath rapture) if the days were not cut short.

Quote

 

The Dragon {via the Anti-Christ army} chases the Woman {Israel} into the wilderness, when he can;t get at HER he gets angry and goes after thee REMNANT of her SEED {Jesus is the seed, see Gal. 3} who have the TESTIMONY of Jesus AND keep the Commandments of God. So who can this be ? It can only be a Remnant Gentile Church, you know why ? It CAN NOT be anyone Jewish, so it has to be the Martyrs under the 5th Seal/Remnant Church who come to Christ AFTER the Rapture.  Here's why, WATCH:

The 1/3 of the Jews who Repent, the Dragon/Anti-Christ can't get at, so it can;t be them can it ? And the 2/3 who do not Repent do not have the TESTIMONY of Jesus, NOR do they keep the Commandments of God. AMEN.........Catch that brother, its the Gentile Church/Remnant of the Church that is in Heaven {Me and you are in Heaven, with John, Paul, etc. etc.}. Now reread it, it will make perfect sense. 

 

There is a reason that there are 144000 witnesses to the twelve tribes. The church is in heaven pretrib. The 70th week of Daniel is the time of Jacobs trouble, not the Gentiles.

Quote

The Jews were already Married to God, he DIVORCED THEM, we must go to Heaven to Marry the Lamb. So the Jews don't need to be Harvested per se, they need to ATONE !! Hence the Last Trump sounds which ends the Harvest and announces ATONEMENT is night at hand. They must atone before the 70th week ends according to Daniel 9. 

Rom 11

23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again.

The Jews will be grafted in again. God promises to remove their blindness when the fulness of the Gentiles comes in.

Quote

The Jews will indeed see the Christian Church disappear but it will not be by leaving this earth with our bodies, so they can't nor do they claim Aliens, people have 1 Cor. 15 all wrong. WE DIE, our Spirit goes to be with the Lord {hence we CHANGE in the twinkling of an eye}. Flesh can not enter Heaven !! When Mary saw Jesus in John ch. 20 he told her TOUCH ME NOT, for I have not yet ascended to the Father {to offer the Sacrifice}, hence her very touch would have defiled the Sacrifice. No sin Flesh will enter Heaven. That is what it means by the DEAD will be raised without CORRUPTION {They are Raised as Spirit men}. We are then changed {We die and become Spirit Men}. So there will be 100's of Millions of dead bodies, which the ungodly people will say was a CURSE brought only unto Christians or something like that. Or they will just say it was a Plague, either way, the Jews and others should be able to see it was only Christians.

 We receive new bodies so flesh won't enter heaven.

Quote

The 1/3 Repent, they are the 144,000 or ALL Israel. 

No, the 144,000 are the first fruits of the fall fruit harvest. First fruits are a GUARANTEE of a harvest. There will be a pretrib rapture of the Church and a prewrath rapture of the 12 tribes that are scattered across the earth. The Jewish believers that flee in Israel to a place of protection are the only believers that go through the wrath of God.

Rev 14

3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

Quote

I meant the TIMING to how we come to God is irrelevant. Many people think God is just going to return and SAVE the Jews without them Repenting first, that's just not true. All men who come to God, whether in Abraham's time, David's time, Jesus' time, a 1000 years ago, today, or during the 70th week, be they Jew or Gentile, they all must come to God by FAITH ALONE. 

Rom 11

23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again.

Quote

The Jews will actually not go through the Wrath of God, they will kinda be in the "Ark" so to speak. The Flood is the Wrath. You are basically spot on on everything brother. I have just been shown some additional things in these last few years.

The Jews in the nation of Israel that flee as instructed will go through the wrath of God in a place of protection.

Quote

God Bless......Bounce whatever you like off me, we seem to be on the same page for the most part.

We do have a lot of common beliefs. However, I believe that there will be two harvests, one for the church and one for the 12 tribes that have been scattered across the earth. The fig tree has two harvests. Originally Israel was to be the first harvest, but they sinned against God so he blinded them and sent Paul to the Gentiles.

Hos 9

10 I found Israel like grapes in the wilderness; I saw your fathers as the firstripe in the fig tree at her first time: but they went to Baalpeor, and separated themselves unto that shame; and their abominations were according as they loved.

We can prove there will be a harvest of the 12 tribes because of the 144,000 first fruits which guarantees this harvest. Most pretrib believers do not understand that there is a separation between the 70th week, the time of Jacobs trouble and the wrath of God.

I like reading your posts brother.

 

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7 hours ago, The Light said:

They are of the 12 tribes brother.

Matt 24

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

When the dragon goes after the remnant of her seed, he is going after the those left in the 12 tribes that are scattered across the earth

You are still missing it, if I tell you a rooster dips snuff, look under his wings and you;ll find the can pardner !! People get trained to see things, thus we have to be untrained. We take things in certain ways and our naturally reflection is, that poor dumb blind fool....Silently of course, he he. But I can see, I just didn't explain it well it seems.

So you say the Remnant are the Jews like I used to, but it cant be Jews, let me post the verses and that might be a better visual.

Rev. 12:16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth. 17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

So the earth helps the Woman/Israel like in the Exodus, the Fire/Wall of Water helped Israel. So she is thus PROTECTED Right ? Satan/AC can't get at her, so who does he get at ? It CAN'T be the other Jews, here is why !! Read the verse, look sat the RED HIGHLIGHT, it can't be the rest of the Jews, they don't Repent, thus they can't have the testimony of Jesus nor do the keep the commandments of God. Look, do you not think ANY Gentiles will be saved after the Rapture ? Of course they will, thus the are the Remnant that are NOT PROTECTED, because they can't get to Petra, most Jews will be living in Isrsael by that time, and only 1/3 repent, the 2/3 who don't do not keep Gods commandments, nor do the have Jesus' testimony. The Gentile Church {with some Jews} are indeed in Heaven, the 1/3 of the Jews {Woman} are PROTECTED in Petra, Satan can't get at them, the 2/3 who don't repent are NOT of Jesus, they still reject him, they they CAN'T be this Remnant who do keep Gods commandments and who do have Jesus' testimony, catch my drift ? The Martyrs are the Gentiles who repent during the 70th week. They are not protected, they are like the 5 foolish virgins who tarried. The Jews have to be protected, to fulfill God's promise to Abraham.

And no days will be shortened, we know this because the 70th week is 7 years. God's original plan shortened the beasts reign from what it would "NATURALLY" have been, if God had not sent Jesus back, to 1260 days MAX. He dies on day 1260. He comes to power in the Middle of the week so the 70th week must needs be exactly 7 years, Jesus is speaking of Gods design shortening the Beasts time on earth where he can't kill all men on earth, God doesn't have to redesign things later. 

8 hours ago, The Light said:

When the dragon goes after the remnant of her seed, he is going after the those left in the 12 tribes that are scattered across the earth. The church is in heaven in Rev 5. The fulness of the Gentiles comes in and the blindness is taken from the Jews (12 tribes). 144000 witness to the 12 tribes that are across the earth. Throughout the the 7 years there are many that are killed. However, when the abomination of desolation is set up toward the end of the 7 years, the dragon goes after the remnant of her seed as the woman (the Jews in the nation of Israel) have fled and go to a place of protection. There would be no flesh saved (no alive believers to be raptured in the prewrath rapture) if the days were not cut short.

I guess I already answered this in reality. Those who reprent are protected. The 144,000 NEVER WITNESS, go find it, you can't. LOL.......I know, I tried. Its the Angel who takes the gospel to the Nations, nit the 144,000 !! That IS a metaphor for All Israel. 12 x 12,000 = All Israel. Not every Jew, but Israel as a Nation will be preserved. And there are no lost tribes, they are all just Jews, God showed me that a while back. When the Assyrians took the 10 tribes away, you had some men of Judea who loved their evil ways, and thus they were in the Northern Kingdoms and got carried away with them, you had many righteous men of God who despised the Wickedness and thus lived in Judea/Jerusalem, almost all of the Levite's did, all of the tribes had people living in Jerusalem when those tribes were taken away, and just like Abraham populated/multiplied from one man, these men from those tribes living in Jerusalem eventually just became Jews and thus Ezekiel's TWO STICKS shall become ONE eventually came to pass. Those tribes are represented in Israel today, all of them are. There never was any lost tribes. God just punished those wicked men of North Israel. 

The AoD is set up in the middle of the week. At the 1290, which is 30 days before the 1260. My timing on these events are tried and true brother.

8 hours ago, The Light said:

When the dragon goes after the remnant of her seed, he is going after the those left in the 12 tribes that are scattered across the earth. The church is in heaven in Rev 5. The fulness of the Gentiles comes in and the blindness is taken from the Jews (12 tribes). 144000 witness to the 12 tribes that are across the earth. Throughout the the 7 years there are many that are killed. However, when the abomination of desolation is set up toward the end of the 7 years, the dragon goes after the remnant of her seed as the woman (the Jews in the nation of Israel) have fled and go to a place of protection. There would be no flesh saved (no alive believers to be raptured in the prewrath rapture) if the days were not cut short.

I am telling you, its a Metaphor for the Fleeing Jews, look where its placed. The Seals are opened, thus the Anti-Christ GOES FORTH to Conquer, and the Angel is ordered to HOLD UP the FOUR WINDS that they Hurt not the EARTH....SEAS....and TREES until the 144,000 {Fleeing Jews} are SEALED/Protected from harm. Now why would God hold up his coming Trump Judgments ? We know that is what it is because the Trump Judgments HURT the TREES, the EARTH and the SEAS !! He holds it up because the Fleeing Jews would be hurt by the Judgments !! They are human beings. They are the Fleeing Jews. Then in Rev. 7:9-16 we see the Church once again in Heaven, those that came out of the 2000 some odd year Church Age Tribulation {Jesus said we would have CONTINUAL TRIBULATION on earth}. 2000>7. The Martyrs are not Judged until Jesus and the Churches return {see Rev, 20:4}. 

8 hours ago, The Light said:

Rom 11

23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again.

The Jews will be grafted in again. God promises to remove their blindness when the fulness of the Gentiles comes in.

But only the ones who Repent and come to Christ via FAITH ALONE, via the Two-witnesses preaching. 

8 hours ago, The Light said:

No, the 144,000 are the first fruits of the fall fruit harvest.

They are the First fruits of Israel. They could also be said to be the first to die in Christ by believing in the coming seed, as Abraham did, but the 144,000 are never resurrected, they never die, they are who God has is left to populate Israel with, Satan kills all the other Jews.

8 hours ago, The Light said:

No, the 144,000 are the first fruits of the fall fruit harvest.

Well that is not God's Wrath brother. I wish mama woulda whipped me like that, SMILE. 

8 hours ago, The Light said:

We do have a lot of common beliefs. However, I believe that there will be two harvests, one for the church and one for the 12 tribes that have been scattered across the earth.

There is, Rev. 14 is THE HARVEST Chapter, it covers the full 7 years, the 144,000 {fleeing Jews} are shown with Jesus on Mt. Zion, the Wheat grow with the Wicked Tares until the very end, thus they are BOUND in the grave to be BURNED in 1000 years. But in the midst of this chapter we get a poetic soliloquy so to speak, we see Jesus Rapture the Church up to Heaven, bit it actually happened before either one of these events shown. So we indeed get various Harvests.

8 hours ago, The Light said:

I believe that there will be two harvests, one for the church and one for the 12 tribes that have been scattered across the earth. The fig tree has two harvests. Originally Israel was to be the first harvest, but they sinned against God so he blinded them and sent Paul to the Gentiles.

Hos 9

10 I found Israel like grapes in the wilderness; I saw your fathers as the firstripe in the fig tree at her first time: but they went to Baalpeor, and separated themselves unto that shame; and their abominations were according as they loved.

We can prove there will be a harvest of the 12 tribes because of the 144,000 first fruits which guarantees this harvest. Most pretrib believers do not understand that there is a separation between the 70th week, the time of Jacobs trouble and the wrath of God.

I like reading your posts brother.

There probably was just going to be one Harvest with Jesus reigning in Jerusalem starting in 70 AD, but the Jews rejected Christ.

Say a prayer for me brother, I am having my Prostrate taken out on the 19th God willing. 

 

My Revelation time-line is spot on, I will share it one day. I used to confuse me to no end, then I started doing a simple thing, I started asking God to SHOW ME. That only happened because I complained to God, Father, why did you call me to Prophecy, and I am stuck in the mud/in a rut, and there are 100's of opinions on what Babylon is, the Harlot is etc. etc. etc. And His simple answer was, "Ron, you guys know everything already"

It hit me, the exact same thing Jesus warned the Pharisees about was our problem via Prophecy, MEN'S TRADITIONS. Because Prophecy is so difficult as young Christians we take on OTHERS OPINIONS and we get entrenched in those ideas, and we never just simply ask God to show us, like we did in the Gospels !! So I laid down all my old assumptions, like the 144,000 are Preachers, its not there anywhere, we were just taught that. 

God Bless.

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9 hours ago, iamlamad said:

the two witnesses will be OLD TESTAMENT saints.

I strongly disagree with this statement, as I see John as one of the two witnesses, a new testament saint. Without getting into this he clearly states this in the last verse of chapter 10, and first verses of 11, you just need to remove the chapter break in the middle of these verses. 

9 hours ago, iamlamad said:

So they rise with all the rest of the Old Testament saints - on the last day and at the 7th vial. Therefore the earthquake when they rise is the very same earthquake when all the Old Testament saints rise.

Again, I agree in part but for different reasons. Ask yourself, does the resurrection of the Jewish nation involve the resurrected saints of the Old testament? 

9 hours ago, iamlamad said:

What you suggest is simply IMPOSSIBLE! I am amazed you have not seen this yet. You cannot align  the 7th seal with the 7th trumpet or the 7th vial. The seals have one main purpose: to SEAL THE BOOK. When they are opened they are then forgotten. Once the 7th seal is opened, there is no more mention of the seals for the rest of the book: their purpose is done and over with. When opened, they allow the BOOK to be opened, and the book so far more important than the seals that sealed it. So once the book is open, then and ONLY THEN can any trumpet be sounded. Therefore it is impossible for the 7th seal to align with the 7th trumpet, for the 7th trumpet will most certainly be 3.5 years AFTER the 7th seal.  One day you will see this. This theory is certainly an issue - you just don't know it yet!

What I say is perfectly possible in the framework I use to interpret revelation. The sealed book is the deed to the Earth, and there is a specific time when the Kingdoms of this earth become the Kingdoms of our LORD and His Christ. And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever. (Rev. 11:15)

I am surprised you cannot see this, and interact with someone who has a diverse opinion as you do by trying to look through their viewpoint. This is an essential skill of a teacher. As the Old saying goes, "before you criticize a man, walk a mile in his shoes". 

You yourself acknowledge that the book is the deed to the Earth. (I read this in one of your older comments here when I was perusing old posts here) Well, when is that Deed handed over to Christ if not in the verse I quoted you? Perhaps you can learn something here yourself, or as I have said here before, "can the teacher be taught?" This is not about competition for me, but about my calling. why is there a delay between the sixth and seventh seal if the lamb is worthy? Because God is merciful, not willing that any should perish, and the fact that we as believers also have a role to play in this, as we are joint heirs with Christ Jesus, and we Overcome Satan by the blood of the lamb and the Word of our testimony as we face the wrath of the devil. (Rev; 12:11)

Tome, from my perspective, it all makes perfect sense and is 100% possible, and takes into consideration the character of God and our being Joint heirs with Christ. And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together. (Romans 8:17)

God Bless

 

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