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Can we determine the TIMING of the Rapture from Paul?


iamlamad

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21 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

I know, many people insist the two witnesses testify in the first half, and the other 4 instances of the 3.5 years is for the second half of the week. I disagree.

And that is fine.  Eschatology is not a condition of justification.  We all see these things a little differently.   We can have civil discussions about these things and present what we think makes our case.   

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5 hours ago, Oseas Ramos de Siqueira said:

What will be then the scenarios of Jerusalem in that time?

                                                                  THE FIRST SCENARIO THAT WILL BE SEEN IN JERUSALEM 
In fact the pseudo messiah will manifest himself in the holy city in short future. The supposed messiah, called Eliyahu, born in Jerusalem, living in the holy city for decades (this detail is very important to be known to everyone here of course), this MAN as soon as he manifest himself as a messiah in the days to come, he will begin to make signs and lying wonders. This esoteric / spiritist / kabbalistic messiah of the Jews will do great signs and wonders, even will make fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men, deceiving them that dwell on the earth by the miracles which he has power to do. 


                                                                    THEN A SECOND SCENARIO WILL BE SEEN IN JERUSALEM
All kind of comunications, the midea in general, will comment the signs and lying wonders of the false messiah and will show them to the whole world, mainly the chanels of television. In the other hand, Ministries and Ministers of all denominations and sects, and all religious leaders of all religious system that exist, they will preach and spread  at the four corners of the earth saying Christ is in Jerusalem.  Then the whole world will hear by/through the leaders of the evangelical Churches and non evengelic too, that he is the Christ or messiah.   

                                                                AFTER THAT, A THIRD SCENARIO WILL TAKE PLACE IN JERUSALEM
The third scenario in Jerusalem, the holy city, will be of human upheaval, the environment in the holy city will be of extreme convulsion, multitudes of people and kindreds and tongues and nations will travel to Jerusalem, a strong tourist movements from all nations, mainly religious tourism from all religions and evangelical churches of all denominations and sects will travel to Jerusalem, multitudes will be circling in holy city. Even the Pope will meet the false messiah in the midst of a great human mass of religious people, a strong religious movements towards Jerusalem. 
                                                   These will be the scenarios in Jerusalem during 42 months as soon as manifest the false messiah in Israel, enthroned in Jerusalem, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt. Thus will fulfil literally what is written in Revelation 11 and 13


                                                               A FOURTH AND TERRIBLE SCENARIO TAKE PLACE, A SCENARIO OF WAR 
Rev.11:v.2 - the court which is without the temple leave out...it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

See, in paralel with the scenarios above, the true Christians will preach against these satanic movements, the environment on the earth will be a spiritual and religious War and one of the seven heads of the Beast of sea -the Papacy and the woman which rides upon him - will be wounded to death
                                           Then the pseudo messiah will make a deal with the Pope to build an universal religious Empire, and he will give to the Pope his Power, and his Throne and great Authority, then the deadly wound of the Papacy will be healed and all the World will be wondered after the Pope, called or nicknamed Paulus VII, seated on the throne of the false messiah in the holy city.

And the peoples of the earth included the Jewish people guided by the pseudo messiah, called Eliyahu, they will worship the pseudo messiah which gave power unto the Pope, and also they will worship the Pope, saying, Who is like unto the Pope? who is able to make war with him? Then, face to the environment extremely favorable, the pseudo messiah will make a deal with the Pope to build an universal Empire, a religious Empire, atually an anti-JESUS Empire or AntiChrist's Empire, and according Scriptures who will the FIRST to rule this satanic Empire for 42 months will be the Pope, as it is prophesied in Revelation 13:v.5.       (Pope Paulus VII)    

Then will be given unto the Pope a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and also will be given power unto him to continue with his blasphemy for forty and two months (Rev.13:v.5) and he will open his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name-JESUS-, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heavenly places in Christ (Eph.1:v.3).

And will be given unto the Pope Paulus VII to make WAR with the saints (Dan.7:v.22&25-27), and to overcome them: and power will be given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations, all that dwell upon the earth will worship him, those whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb that was slain from the foundation of the world. 

Rev. 13:v.9-10 say: 9 If any man have an ear, let him hear. 10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the PATIENCE AND THE FAITH OF THE SAINTS.

                                                                              THE WORST OF ALL  WILL COME AND IS AT DOOR

But the worst of all, as soon as ends the FIRST period of 42 months of the Antichrist's Empire, ruled by the Pope Paulus VII, afterwards will assume the RUTHLESS false messiah, and he will rule the Antichrist's Empire for 1.290 days (Dan.12:v.11), then will be established the Abomination of Desolation, the end of the Dispensation is arrived, yeah, this will be the worst of all precedent things as they are described in Revelation 13:v.11-18, but this is for another chapter and a new post.    

Among the evangelical people of all denominations will be divisions, they will be hated of all nations for JESUS name's sake, among the believers many will be offended and will betray one another, and will hate one another. And many false prophets shall rise in the churches and will deceive many. And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days. Dan; 12:v.12

Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?

You have made defamatory accusations towards me in other posts.  You are not worthy of any dialogue.  I didn't even bother to read what you posted above.  I just linked it to make sure you got the message.

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On 12/1/2019 at 8:34 AM, Alive said:

Has anyone thought about just why the Jews would resume the daily sacrifices? And just how that would work?

They might build the Temple to do just that, they might never get around to it even after they build the temple or they might do it and then stop it,  BUT....Here is the more important question, WHY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Would God's Messenger {Gabriel} be speaking about an end time Sacrifice that God would see as an ABOMINATION !! Have you ever thought about that ? Now lets look at it afresh, with this in mind !!

Dan. 8:11 Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, and by him the daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place of the sanctuary was cast down.

Dan. 12:11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

QUESTION........Why would a Holy God via Gabriel or even Jesus if this was the Man in Linen speaking, who is God, speak about an UNHOLY SACRIFICE ? A Profane End Time Sacrifice ? Pstttt, I don't think that is what it is, I think the Jews Repent BEFORE the Day of the Lord just like Malachi 4:5-6 says, Elijah is sent to turn Israel back unto God BEFORE the DOTL. So the Jews repent before the First Seal {DOTL} is opened, and the Sacrifice is taken away, or in other words, the Beast and False Prophet FORBID..........THE SACRIFICE..........which is Jesus Christ, from being worshiped by the Jews who have repented, thus they Flee Judea when they see the AoD. 

Why do people think God is speaking about a PROFANE SACRIFICE ? He isn't !! The Anti-Christ would be OK with the Profane Sacrifice, he hates Jesus being worshiped by the Jews. 

 

 

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On 11/28/2019 at 11:33 AM, iamlamad said:

Roy, first, thanks for the lesson. You can continue to believe there is only a half week ahead of us, and it will not bother me at all. Everyone is free to believe what they want to believe.

Shalom, iamlamad.

You're welcome ... IF you take it to heart. Sure, "everyone is free to believe what they want to believe," but NOT WITHOUT CONSEQUENCE!

James 3:1-2 in Holman Christian Standard Bible says,

1 Not many should become teachers, my brothers, knowing that we will receive a stricter judgment, 2 for we all stumble in many ways. If anyone does not stumble in what he says, he is a mature man who is also able to control his whole body.

The King James Version says,

James 3:1-2 (KJV)

1 My brethren, be not many masters, knowing that we shall receive the greater condemnation. 2 For in many things we offend all. If any man offend not in word, the same is a perfect man, and able also to bridle the whole body.

 

On 11/28/2019 at 11:33 AM, iamlamad said:

I can only tell you that you are mistaken.  Really, it is just common sense and logic: Dan. 9:27 tells us of SOME EVENT that will divide the week (The Hebrew word translated "midst") and stop the daily sacrifices.

Yes, it IS just common sense (which is NOT so "common") and logical, but Daniel 9:27 WAS ALREADY FULFILLED when YESHUA` THE MESSIAH HIMSELF divided the Seven in Matthew 23:38. Here's the context:

Matthew 23:37-39 (KJV)

37 "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! 38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate. 39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord."

This is in partial fulfillment of Daniel 9:27:

Daniel 9:23-27 (KJV)

24 Seventy weeks (SEVENS, 70 x 7 = 490) are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city,
(1) to finish the transgression, and
(2) to make an end of sins, and
(3) to make reconciliation for iniquity, and
(4) to bring in everlasting righteousness, and
(5) to seal up the vision and prophecy, and
(6) to anoint the most Holy. 
25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks (7 SEVENS), and threescore and two weeks (62 SEVENS): the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. 26 And after threescore and two weeks (62 SEVENS) shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people [of the prince that shall come] (this portion between the square brackets is a PREPOSITIONAL PHRASE; as such, it has no part in the subject of the sentence) shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. (the sentence in Hebrew doesn't stop here) 27 And he (the Messiah) shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he (the Messiah) shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he (the Messiah) shall make it desolate, even until the consummation (the conclusion), and that determined (the judgment upon the Jews) shall be poured upon the desolate (the Jews of Jerusalem).

And, Matthew 23:39 gives us the clue when this desolation shall be ended by alluding to Psalm 118:26:

Psalm 118:22-26 (KJV)

22 The stone which the builders refused is become the head stone of the corner.
23 This is the LORD'S doing; it is marvellous in our eyes.
24 This is the day which the LORD hath made; we will rejoice and be glad in it.
25 Save now, I beseech thee, O LORD: O LORD, I beseech thee, send now prosperity.
26 Blessed be he that cometh in the name of the LORD: we have blessed you out of the house of the LORD.

This is the REASON why there is a "First Advent (Coming)" and a "Second Advent (Coming)!" Yeshua` had by this time already made mention of this passage of Scripture in Matthew 21:42 when He quoted Psalm 118:22-23:

Matthew 21:33-46 (KJV)

33 "Hear another parable:

There was a certain householder, which planted a vineyard, and hedged it round about, and digged a winepress in it, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen (stewards), and went into a far country: 34 And when the time of the fruit drew near, he sent his servants (the prophets) to the husbandmen, that they might receive the fruits of it. 35 And the husbandmen took his servants, and beat one, and killed another, and stoned another. 36 Again, he sent other servants more than the first: and they did unto them likewise. 37 But last of all he sent unto them his son (Yeshua`), saying, 'They will reverence my son.' 38 But when the husbandmen saw the son, they said among themselves, 'This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance.' 39 And they caught him, and cast him out of the vineyard (outside of Jerusalem), and slew him. 40 When the lord therefore of the vineyard (YHWH) cometh, what will he do unto those husbandmen?"

41 They say unto him,

"He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons."

42 Jesus saith unto them,

"Did ye never read in the scriptures, 'The stone which the builders rejected [in building the pyramid], the same is become the head of the corner (the CAPSTONE [of the pyramid]): this is the Lord's (LORD'S = YHWH'S) doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes'?

43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof. 44 And whosoever shall fall on this stone (Yeshua` the Messiah) shall be broken: but on whomsoever it (the stone, Yeshua`) shall fall, it will grind him to powder."

45 And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables, they perceived that he spake of them (the stewards). 46 But when they sought to lay hands on him, they feared the multitude, because they took him for a prophet.

Can't you just hear the chief priests and the P'rushiym gasp when it dawned upon them and they realized He was talking about THEM?! (:bored-1: :emot-bulb: Oh! :emot-eek: :blow-up:)

On 11/28/2019 at 11:33 AM, iamlamad said:

Paul gives us a very good hint of what event that is going to be. The man of sin is going to enter the most holy place in the temple, and instantly the sacrifices must stop. ONLY the high priest is allowed into the holy of holies - and that only once a year. The moment this man of sin - probably a Gentile  - enters the temple, the sacrifices must stop until the temple can be cleansed (think of a red heifer without spot or blemish.) This is FUTURE, not history. Jesus certainly did not stop the daily sacrifices at His death and resurrection. He may have stopped the REASON for them, but they continued on to 70 AD. It is therefore a silly argument that Jesus fulfilled Dan. 9:27 in stopping the sacrifices. 

GOOD GRIEF, Charlie Brown! There was no unction in the sacrifices they made after Yeshua`s death! God was NO LONGER ACCEPTING THOSE SACRIFICES! Read Hebrews chapters 9 and 10! That's what the splitting of the veil in the Temple was all about! They were simply given 40 more years to repent before the hammer fell!

That's NOT a "silly argument!" It's the ONLY argument that makes any sense! THINK ABOUT IT (with an OPEN MIND, for a change)!!! Where else in the Scriptures is there ANY reason AT ALL for God to split off any portion of the 70 Sevens and put a gap of almost TWO THOUSAND YEARS in between?! The Jews of Jerusalem have been MADE DESOLATE until He returns! That part is not only HISTORY, but is RECORDED HISTORY!

On 11/28/2019 at 11:33 AM, iamlamad said:

It is like I told have written before: take an apple and divide it in half. Eat half and put the other half in the refer.  No, tomorrow take that half out of the refer and divide it into half. You end up with quarters, not halves. When the man of sin enters the temple and abominates (new word for simplicity) that is the abomination Jesus spoke of. It is when those in Judea will flee, AND it still stop the daily sacrifices.

Nope. History shows (although somewhat veiled) that the believing Jews (Christians) DID flee in 66 A.D. to the mountains of Israel and ended up beyond the Jordan in a town called Pella in the Decapolis.

In your weak analogy, why would you need to split the half of an apple in half again?! It's already BEEN split in two!

On 11/28/2019 at 11:33 AM, iamlamad said:

Is it possible to have a "midpoint" of a period of 7 years when one half the week was around 32 AD and the other half is future?  Where then would the "midpoint" be? In 35.5 AD or some time in our future?

Is THIS your dilemma?! You don't need to have a "midpoint!" Daniel 9:27 said, "... in the midst of the week he (the Messiah) shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he (the Messiah) shall make it desolate, even until the consummation (the conclusion), and that determined (the judgment upon the Jews) shall be poured upon the desolate (the Jews of Jerusalem)." ALL OF THAT is in the middle!

We are STILL in the middle! We won't get out of the middle until the second half of the Seven resumes, and it won't resume until the Messiah returns and once again offers the Kingdom to Israel! This time, they will GLADLY accept Him as their King for He shall also be their Rescuer, and by that time it shall be revealed that He was/is FAMILY and was "wounded in the house of His friends!"

On 11/28/2019 at 11:33 AM, iamlamad said:

Sorry, but the only way to have a real "midpoint" is to have an entire week in our future - which is exactly what John shows us in Revelation. 

One day while I was reading Daniel 9, when I got to verse 27 and got to the word "midst" SUDDENLY God spoke: (it sounded like an audible voice, but now I realize He was talking to my spirit man) and said, "you could find that exact midpoint 'clearly marked' in the book of REvelation."  My spirit man asked Him how we could find that, and He spoke again:  "Every time I mentioned an event that would start at the midpoint and go to the end of the week, I always included the three and a half year period of time. When you find the mentions of the three and one half year period of time, you will be VERY CLOSE to the exact midpoint. In fact, you could find the entire 70th week clearly marked."

So, Roy, what can we learn from this? First, we can know beyond any doubt that there IS a midpoint. From that we can know that there is an ENTIRE WEEK in our future that will be divided into two halves. Next, we know that somewhere John shows us this midpoint and it is marked somehow. And we can know that God has used the same marked for the start of the week, the midpoint and the end. 

I went on a diligent search for that "midpoint" clearly marked. I found it finally with  the 7th trumpet as the midpoint "marker." I instantly then rushed in my bible to the 7th vial ("the same marker") and read "It is done." I knew at that instant I have found the entire 70th week "marked." I rushed to the 7th seal as confirmation and read of the thirty minutes of silence, and was convinced. The Holy Spirit in me was confirming I had found what Jesus had sent me to find. 

Therefore I am convinced the truth of scripture is that there is an entire 70th week in the book of Revelation, with a midpoint clearly marked  & the entire week marked by the 7's. The trumpet judgments come in the first half, and the vials in the second half. Jesus told the Jews in Judea to flee the moment they see the abomination, and we see that fleeing in 12:6. That verse, therefore, is only seconds past the abomination event that will divide the week.

It is OK if you still wish to believe there is only half a week left. Can you understand now why I believe as I do? I heard from the Master. 

I understand your opinion, but I'll spare you commentary.

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8 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Yes, it IS just common sense (which is NOT so "common") and logical, but Daniel 9:27 WAS ALREADY FULFILLED when YESHUA` THE MESSIAH HIMSELF divided the Seven in Matthew 23:38. Here's the context:

Matthew 23:37-39 (KJV)

37 "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! 38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate. 39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord."

This is in partial fulfillment of Daniel 9:27:

Daniel 9:23-27 (KJV)

24 Seventy weeks (SEVENS, 70 x 7 = 490) are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city,
(1) to finish the transgression, and
(2) to make an end of sins, and
(3) to make reconciliation for iniquity, and
(4) to bring in everlasting righteousness, and
(5) to seal up the vision and prophecy, and
(6) to anoint the most Holy. 
25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks (7 SEVENS), and threescore and two weeks (62 SEVENS): the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. 26 And after threescore and two weeks (62 SEVENS) shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people [of the prince that shall come] (this portion between the square brackets is a PREPOSITIONAL PHRASE; as such, it has no part in the subject of the sentence) shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. (the sentence in Hebrew doesn't stop here) 27 And he (the Messiah) shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he (the Messiah) shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he (the Messiah) shall make it desolate, even until the consummation (the conclusion), and that determined (the judgment upon the Jews) shall be poured upon the desolate (the Jews of Jerusalem).

And, Matthew 23:39 gives us the clue when this desolation shall be ended by alluding to Psalm 118:26:

Psalm 118:22-26 (KJV)

22 The stone which the builders refused is become the head stone of the corner.
23 This is the LORD'S doing; it is marvellous in our eyes.
24 This is the day which the LORD hath made; we will rejoice and be glad in it.
25 Save now, I beseech thee, O LORD: O LORD, I beseech thee, send now prosperity.
26 Blessed be he that cometh in the name of the LORD: we have blessed you out of the house of the LORD.

This is the REASON why there is a "First Advent (Coming)" and a "Second Advent (Coming)!" Yeshua` had by this time already made mention of this passage of Scripture in Matthew 21:42 when He quoted Psalm 118:22-23:

Matthew 21:33-46 (KJV)

33 "Hear another parable:

There was a certain householder, which planted a vineyard, and hedged it round about, and digged a winepress in it, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen (stewards), and went into a far country: 34 And when the time of the fruit drew near, he sent his servants (the prophets) to the husbandmen, that they might receive the fruits of it. 35 And the husbandmen took his servants, and beat one, and killed another, and stoned another. 36 Again, he sent other servants more than the first: and they did unto them likewise. 37 But last of all he sent unto them his son (Yeshua`), saying, 'They will reverence my son.' 38 But when the husbandmen saw the son, they said among themselves, 'This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance.' 39 And they caught him, and cast him out of the vineyard (outside of Jerusalem), and slew him. 40 When the lord therefore of the vineyard (YHWH) cometh, what will he do unto those husbandmen?"

41 They say unto him,

"He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons."

42 Jesus saith unto them,

"Did ye never read in the scriptures, 'The stone which the builders rejected [in building the pyramid], the same is become the head of the corner (the CAPSTONE [of the pyramid]): this is the Lord's (LORD'S = YHWH'S) doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes'?

43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof. 44 And whosoever shall fall on this stone (Yeshua` the Messiah) shall be broken: but on whomsoever it (the stone, Yeshua`) shall fall, it will grind him to powder."

45 And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables, they perceived that he spake of them (the stewards). 46 But when they sought to lay hands on him, they feared the multitude, because they took him for a prophet.

Can't you just hear the chief priests and the P'rushiym gasp when it dawned upon them and they realized He was talking about THEM?! (:bored-1: :emot-bulb: Oh! :emot-eek: :blow-up:)

GOOD GRIEF, Charlie Brown! There was no unction in the sacrifices they made after Yeshua`s death! God was NO LONGER ACCEPTING THOSE SACRIFICES! Read Hebrews chapters 9 and 10! That's what the splitting of the veil in the Temple was all about! They were simply given 40 more years to repent before the hammer fell!

That's NOT a "silly argument!" It's the ONLY argument that makes any sense! THINK ABOUT IT (with an OPEN MIND, for a change)!!! Where else in the Scriptures is there ANY reason AT ALL for God to split off any portion of the 70 Sevens and put a gap of almost TWO THOUSAND YEARS in between?! The Jews of Jerusalem have been MADE DESOLATE until He returns! That part is not only HISTORY, but is RECORDED HISTORY!

Nope. History shows (although somewhat veiled) that the believing Jews (Christians) DID flee in 66 A.D. to the mountains of Israel and ended up beyond the Jordan in a town called Pella in the Decapolis.

In your weak analogy, why would you need to split the half of an apple in half again?! It's already BEEN split in two!

Is THIS your dilemma?! You don't need to have a "midpoint!" Daniel 9:27 said, "... in the midst of the week he (the Messiah) shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he (the Messiah) shall make it desolate, even until the consummation (the conclusion), and that determined (the judgment upon the Jews) shall be poured upon the desolate (the Jews of Jerusalem)." ALL OF THAT is in the middle!

We are STILL in the middle! We won't get out of the middle until the second half of the Seven resumes, and it won't resume until the Messiah returns and once again offers the Kingdom to Israel! This time, they will GLADLY accept Him as their King for He shall also be their Rescuer, and by that time it shall be revealed that He was/is FAMILY and was "wounded in the house of His friends!"

I understand your opinion, but I'll spare you commentary.

So you find ONE WORD (Desolate) in Matthew and imagine it relates to Daniel 9:27. That is a HUGE stretch.

25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks (7 SEVENS), and threescore and two weeks (62 SEVENS): the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. 26 And after (the 7 SEVENS and the) threescore and two weeks (69 SEVENS)(Note that he did NOT write "in the 70th," but AFTER the 69:  He, Daniel, is inserting a gap: what follows is AFTER the 69 but BEFORE the 70th - showing us THINGS HAPPEN in this gap) shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people [of the prince that shall come] (this portion between the square brackets is a PREPOSITIONAL PHRASE; as such, it has no part in the subject of the sentence) shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; (they did: Titus didn't, but his soldiers did)  and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. (the sentence in Hebrew doesn't stop here) 27 And he (the he that came and destroyed the temple: Jesus does not fit the context here: he did not stop the sacrifices; they continued on until 70 AD) shall confirm the covenant with many for one week(here Daniel ends the gap: the 70th week begins here): and in the midst of the week he (the man of sin Paul talked about) shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he (the Beast of Rev. 13) shall make it desolate, even until the consummation (the conclusion), and that determined (the judgment upon the Jews [God is going to completely shatter their power: they trust in their IDF]) shall be poured upon the desolate (the Jews of Jerusalem).

Did the sacrifices continue on after Jesus death? Certainly they did.

Did the sacrifices cease after Titus' soldiers destroyed the temple? Certainly NOT.

In the new Testament, Jesus quoted Daniel and spoke of the abomination that Daniel wrote of. Jesus then said that when people SEE it - the abomination - they are to FLEE. We see that fleeing in Rev. 12:6 PROVING that Daniel was not talking about Jesus, but about the Beast of Revelation.

God was NO LONGER ACCEPTING THOSE SACRIFICES!   Did I say anything about God? GOOD GRIEF, Charlie Brown! You know as well as I that the sacrifices in the temple CONTINUED ON until 70 AD. You have to imagine that Jesus stopped them. I am convinced you also know they are going to START AGAIN when Israel builds a NEW TEMPLE! It's very simple: the Jews are still waiting for their Messiah, NOT KNOWING He already came and made the ultimate sacrifice. Paul and John both TELL US there will be new temple. And with that new temple the daily sacrifices will begin once again.  However, when the man of sin enters the temple, those sacrifices will STOP. John tells us that an angel will sound the 7th trumpet to mark that time in heaven. Then a second or two later those in Judea that see it will flee. 

But, your mind is made up, and I'm wasting my time.  You and I can read the same scripture and come up with two different ideas about what that scripture is saying, because of preconceptions of all the other scriptures.

Just so you know, Jesus Christ, the head of the church said these words to me when I read "midst" in Daniel 9:27:  "You could find that exact midpoint clearly marked in the book of Revelation..."

IF you would believe that was Jesus, you could learn something: there IS a midpoint of the week clearly marked in Revelation. If there is an exact midpoint, then there is the first half and the second half there also - and John proves this. He also said: "in fact, you could find the ENTIRE 70th WEEK 'clearly marked.'"

Think about it! Jesus Christ, the head of the church said that we could find the entire 70th week clearly marked in Revelation. And I can assure you, the 70th week is marked by 7's. But, since your mind is made up, I am wasting my time. I am only here for the readers anyway!  Have a blessed Christmas!

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12 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

...That's NOT a "silly argument!" It's the ONLY argument that makes any sense! THINK ABOUT IT (with an OPEN MIND, for a change)!!! Where else in the Scriptures is there ANY reason AT ALL for God to split off any portion of the 70 Sevens and put a gap of almost TWO THOUSAND YEARS in between?! The Jews of Jerusalem have been MADE DESOLATE until He returns! That part is not only HISTORY, but is RECORDED HISTORY!

Nope. History shows (although somewhat veiled) that the believing Jews (Christians) DID flee in 66 A.D. to the mountains of Israel and ended up beyond the Jordan in a town called Pella in the Decapolis.

In your weak analogy, why would you need to split the half of an apple in half again?! It's already BEEN split in two!

Is THIS your dilemma?! You don't need to have a "midpoint!" Daniel 9:27 said, "... in the midst of the week he (the Messiah) shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he (the Messiah) shall make it desolate, even until the consummation (the conclusion), and that determined (the judgment upon the Jews) shall be poured upon the desolate (the Jews of Jerusalem)." ALL OF THAT is in the middle!

We are STILL in the middle! We won't get out of the middle until the second half of the Seven resumes, and it won't resume until the Messiah returns and once again offers the Kingdom to Israel! This time, they will GLADLY accept Him as their King for He shall also be their Rescuer, and by that time it shall be revealed that He was/is FAMILY and was "wounded in the house of His friends!"

I understand your opinion, but I'll spare you commentary.

Where else in the Scriptures is there ANY reason AT ALL for God to split off any portion of the 70 Sevens and put a gap of almost TWO THOUSAND YEARS in between?  It is very simple: the FINAL week ends the Jewish age, with the church sandwiched between then and our future when the week begins. Again, don't take my word for it: go back and examine Dan. 9. It was Daniel, by the Holy Spirit, that put a GAP between the 69th and 70th. 

Then when you understand that the ENTIRE 70th week is in Revelation, that is added proof. It was not just the Christian Jews that escaped; Christian Gentiles would have escaped too - if there was any. 

In your weak analogy, why would you need to split the half of an apple in half again?! It's already BEEN split in two!  You imagine the week was split When Christ died and rose from the dead.  However, Paul and John show us an event that will divide the week (you say again) in our future.  According to you, there is only a half an apple in the future: right?  Well, when the man of sin enters the temple, that event will fulfill Dan. 9:27, and divide the week. Therefore the week will be divided TWICE!  There is your quarter of an apple. I know, you don't think anything in our future is going to divide the week because that part is history. 

There is just something about division: it seems the WHOLE must be together when the division takes place - if we want to end up with two halves. In your argument then, God must have added a gap to push the SECOND HALF of the week into the future!  This must be so for the five mentions of the 3.5 year period of time in Revelation. (As you said: we are still in the middle.  Well, I think God pushed the entire week into the future, not just half of the week.

the second half of the Seven resumes, and it won't resume until the Messiah returns and once again offers the Kingdom to Israel!  HOW can you say this? Jesus does not return (to Armageddon) until AFTER the week has ended.  Remember, His coming is in chapter 19! This is after the seals, trumpets and vials are finished.

Daniel actually gives us info on the first half of the week:

Dan 11:

36 And the king shall do according to his will; and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished: for that that is determined shall be done.

37 Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all.

38 But in his estate shall he honour the God of forces: and a god whom his fathers knew not shall he honour with gold, and silver, and with precious stones, and pleasant things.

39 Thus shall he do in the most strong holds with a strange god, whom he shall acknowledge and increase with glory: and he shall cause them to rule over many, and shall divide the land for gain.

40 And at the time of the end shall the king of the south push at him: and the king of the north shall come against him like a whirlwind, with chariots, and with horsemen, and with many ships; and he shall enter into the countries, and shall overflow and pass over.

41 He shall enter also into the glorious land, and many countries shall be overthrown: but these shall escape out of his hand, even Edom, and Moab, and the chief of the children of Ammon.

42 He shall stretch forth his hand also upon the countries: and the land of Egypt shall not escape.

43 But he shall have power over the treasures of gold and of silver, and over all the precious things of Egypt: and the Libyans and the Ethiopians shall be at his steps.

44 But tidings out of the east and out of the north shall trouble him: therefore he shall go forth with great fury to destroy, and utterly to make away many.

Daniel 12 is about the same timing as Rev. 12 The midpoint of the week on to the end.

Edited by iamlamad
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On 12/5/2019 at 11:12 PM, Retrobyter said:

Matthew 23:37-39 (KJV)

37 "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! 38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate. 39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord."

that was a affirmation of Hosea 5:14-15 in conjunction with Psalms 118:26

Hosea 5:14-15 (NKJV) For I will be like a lion to Ephraim,
And like a young lion to the house of Judah.
I, even I, will tear them and go away;
I will take them away, and no one shall rescue.
15 I will return again to My place
Till they acknowledge their offense.

Then they will seek My face;
In their affliction they will earnestly seek Me."

Psalms 118:26 (NKJV) Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord!
We have blessed you from the house of the Lord.

 

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9 hours ago, iamlamad said:

bSo you find ONE WORD (Desolate) in Matthew and imagine it relates to Daniel 9:27. That is a HUGE stretch.

Shabbat shalom, iamlamad.

No, not really a stretch. You see, we also have an ENTIRE CHAPTER (Matthew 23) about the abominations (the cries of "Woe unto you, Scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites!" and the atrocities that lay behind those cries) that led to their desolation.

9 hours ago, iamlamad said:

25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks (7 SEVENS), and threescore and two weeks (62 SEVENS): the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. 26 And after (the 7 SEVENS and the) threescore and two weeks (69 SEVENS)(Note that he did NOT write "in the 70th," but AFTER the 69:  He, Daniel, is inserting a gap: what follows is AFTER the 69 but BEFORE the 70th - showing us THINGS HAPPEN in this gap) shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people [of the prince that shall come] (this portion between the square brackets is a PREPOSITIONAL PHRASE; as such, it has no part in the subject of the sentence) shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; (they did: Titus didn't, but his soldiers did)  and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. (the sentence in Hebrew doesn't stop here)

(But, I will break here for explanation and rebuttal.) Precision is key! First, while he did not write "in the 70th," He DID say "AFTER the 62 Sevens." What you don't understand is the nature of the word "after," nor the flow of Hebrew literature. 

When one is learning about word problems in mathematics, one will find that "after" means ">" or "greater than."

For some UNKNOWN REASON, you and your fellow believers in the future "seven years of tribulation" suggest that the gap is somehow inserted at this point. HOWEVER, we're not told of such an insertion! And, if the Sevens ("weeks") normally run consecutively, then
"> (7 + 62)" or as you said, "> 69" Sevens, puts one IN the 70th Seven! See, you've ADDED TO GOD'S WORD information that isn't in the text, namely, "but BEFORE the 70th." That's an ASSUMPTION on your part that has NO justification in the Scripturesff for such a conclusion! So, to continue by saying, "He, Daniel, is inserting a gap" and "things happen in this gap" is to show a PREJUDICE - a BIAS - in the interpretation of Daniel 9! Again, that's inserting your beliefs INTO God's Word (eisegesis) instead of letting God's Word flow OUT and teach YOU (exegesis)!

Third, a proof that you're not being precise is that you said, "He, Daniel, is inserting a gap," when this text is actually Gavriy'eel (Gabriel) saying this TO Daniel. (Daniel 9:21.)

Now, when I said, "and the people [of the prince that shall come] (this portion between the square brackets is a PREPOSITIONAL PHRASE; as such, it has no part in the subject of the sentence) shall destroy the city and the sanctuary" within the quote, I was trying to show you and anyone like you that "the prince that shall come" CANNOT be the subject of the verbs in verse 27! The sentence, begun in verse 26 continues into verse 27 in the Hebrew text, and "the prince that shall come" is an object of the preposition "of," in English. (In Hebrew, the word for "prince," nagiyd, is the second noun in a noun construct state, which also cannot be the subject of the verbs in verse 27.) Therefore, there's only ONE masculine, singular noun in the sentence which can be the subject: "Messiah!"

Therefore, it is the "MESSIAH" who "shall confirm the covenant with many for one week (Seven)"; it is the "MESSIAH" who "shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease," and it is the "MESSIAH" who, "for the overspreading of abominations, shall make it desolate."

9 hours ago, iamlamad said:

 27 And he (the he that came and destroyed the temple: Jesus does not fit the context here: he did not stop the sacrifices; they continued on until 70 AD) shall confirm the covenant with many for one week (here Daniel ends the gap: the 70th week begins here): and in the midst of the week he (the man of sin Paul talked about) shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he (the Beast of Rev. 13) shall make it desolate, even until the consummation (the conclusion), and that determined (the judgment upon the Jews [God is going to completely shatter their power: they trust in their IDF]) shall be poured upon the desolate (the Jews of Jerusalem).

No. Yeshua` DID INDEED cause the sacrifices to cease. Apparently, I have to spell it out for you: Let's look at Hebrews 9 and 10:

Hebrews 9:1-10:25 (KJV)

1 Then verily the first covenant had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary. 2 For there was a tabernacle made; the first, wherein was the candlestick, and the table, and the shewbread; which is called the sanctuary. 3 And after the second veil, the tabernacle which is called the Holiest of all; 4 Which had the golden censer, and the ark of the covenant overlaid round about with gold, wherein was the golden pot that had manna, and Aaron's rod that budded, and the tables of the covenant; 5 And over it the cherubims of glory shadowing the mercyseat; of which we cannot now speak particularly.

6 Now when these things were thus ordained, the priests went always into the first tabernacle, accomplishing the service of God. 7 But into the second went the high priest alone once every year, not without blood, which he offered for himself, and for the errors of the people: 8 The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing: 9 Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience; 10 Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.

11 But Christ (the Messiah) being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building; 12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us. 13 For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh: 14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance. 16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. 17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth. 18 Whereupon neither the first testament was dedicated without blood. 19 For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and of goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book, and all the people, 20  Saying, This is the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you. 21 Moreover he sprinkled with blood both the tabernacle, and all the vessels of the ministry. 22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.

23 It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these. 24 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us: 25 Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others; 26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself. 27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: 28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect. 2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins. 3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year. 4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.

5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:

6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.

7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.

8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law; 9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second. 10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: 12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; 13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool. 14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. 15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,

16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;

17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.

18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.

19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus, 20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh; 21 And having an high priest over the house of God; 22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water. 23 Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised;) 24 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works: 25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

 

9 hours ago, iamlamad said:

Did the sacrifices continue on after Jesus death? Certainly they did.

Yes, they did ... but without efficacy and without power.

9 hours ago, iamlamad said:

Did the sacrifices cease after Titus' soldiers destroyed the temple? Certainly NOT.

You don't know what you're talking about. Without a temple, the sacrifices most certainly ceased!                                               

9 hours ago, iamlamad said:

In the new Testament, Jesus quoted Daniel and spoke of the abomination that Daniel wrote of. Jesus then said that when people SEE it - the abomination - they are to FLEE. We see that fleeing in Rev. 12:6 PROVING that Daniel was not talking about Jesus, but about the Beast of Revelation.

Because the WOMAN (representing Israel) fled into the wilderness?! How do we know that this is the same as the Jews "fleeing to the mountains?" No, THIS is a "stretch!"

9 hours ago, iamlamad said:

God was NO LONGER ACCEPTING THOSE SACRIFICES!   Did I say anything about God? GOOD GRIEF, Charlie Brown! You know as well as I that the sacrifices in the temple CONTINUED ON until 70 AD. You have to imagine that Jesus stopped them.

No, as Hebrews 10 says above, the sacrifices WERE stopped when Yeshua` died upon the cross! He was the FINAL sacrifice that mattered! What is the difference between a slaughter and a sacrifice? It's whether or not GOD accepts it as a sacrifice! All of the other attempted sacrifices from Yeshua` to the Temple destruction were merely slaughters that served no purpose, as far as God was concerned.

9 hours ago, iamlamad said:

I am convinced you also know they are going to START AGAIN when Israel builds a NEW TEMPLE! It's very simple: the Jews are still waiting for their Messiah, NOT KNOWING He already came and made the ultimate sacrifice. Paul and John both TELL US there will be new temple. And with that new temple the daily sacrifices will begin once again.

Of course, they will; Psalm 118:26 says that they will welcome Him from the Temple! However, the Temple that will matter is the one that Yeshua` shall build when He returns (Ezekiel's Temple).

9 hours ago, iamlamad said:

  However, when the man of sin enters the temple, those sacrifices will STOP. John tells us that an angel will sound the 7th trumpet to mark that time in heaven. Then a second or two later those in Judea that see it will flee. 

Now, here is the fiction. This is where you begin to fail in your understanding of Scripture. The burden of proof is on you all to prove that this "man of sin" or "man of lawlessness" is the same as Revelation's "Beast." Furthermore, you don't KNOW that this is the fulfillment of Daniel 9. In fact, it IS NOT!

9 hours ago, iamlamad said:

But, your mind is made up, and I'm wasting my time.  You and I can read the same scripture and come up with two different ideas about what that scripture is saying, because of preconceptions of all the other scriptures.

Just so you know, Jesus Christ, the head of the church said these words to me when I read "midst" in Daniel 9:27:  "You could find that exact midpoint clearly marked in the book of Revelation..."

IF you would believe that was Jesus, you could learn something: there IS a midpoint of the week clearly marked in Revelation. If there is an exact midpoint, then there is the first half and the second half there also - and John proves this. He also said: "in fact, you could find the ENTIRE 70th WEEK 'clearly marked.'"

Think about it! Jesus Christ, the head of the church said that we could find the entire 70th week clearly marked in Revelation. And I can assure you, the 70th week is marked by 7's. But, since your mind is made up, I am wasting my time. I am only here for the readers anyway!  Have a blessed Christmas!

And, since you bring it up again, I guess I'll go ahead and comment: I'm supposed to accept that Yeshua the Messiah of God singled YOU out to speak to you about the "midpoint?" Who are you supposed to be? Sorry, I'm not buying it; I'll not "drink the kool-aid!" STICK TO THE SCRIPTURES!!! If Yeshua` said ANYTHING to you, He should have pointed you to Scripture that SAYS EXACTLY that there even IS a "midpoint!" (There's not.) LEARN TO DIG DEEPER IN SCRIPTURES and leave the pseudo-visions to the false prophets!

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11 hours ago, iamlamad said:

Where else in the Scriptures is there ANY reason AT ALL for God to split off any portion of the 70 Sevens and put a gap of almost TWO THOUSAND YEARS in between?

If I may expand on that......

Luke 4:17-20 (NKJV) And He was handed the book of the prophet Isaiah. And when He had opened the book, He found the place where it was written:
18 "The Spirit of the Lord is upon Me,
Because He has anointed Me
To preach the gospel to the poor;
He has sent Me to heal the brokenhearted,
To proclaim liberty to the captives
And recovery of sight to the blind,
To set at liberty those who are oppressed;
19 To proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord."
20 Then He closed the book, and gave it back to the attendant and sat down. And the eyes of all who were in the synagogue were fixed on Him.

Yeshua is reading from Isaiah....

Isaiah 61:1-2 (NKJV) "The Spirit of the Lord God is upon Me,
Because the Lord has anointed Me
To preach good tidings to the poor;
He has sent Me to heal the brokenhearted,
To proclaim liberty to the captives,
And the opening of the prison to those who are bound;
2 To proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord,
And the day of vengeance of our God;

Yeshua stopped before the highlighted passage.  All is fulfilled at the time He read it as He proclaimed.  But He purposefully left off the part "And the day of vengeance of our God".  It is the final tribulation period when The Lord will deliver His vengeance upon the earth.  

So by default, this passage from Luke supports the idea of a 2000 year gap.   And it does support the idea that the gap is from the time of the Messiah being cut off or more appropriately  in Hebrew, executed, in Daniel 9:26 until the tribulation period when His vengeance will come.

 

I think many get things messed up when they don't remember that the focus of the 70 weeks is Daniel's people, the Hebrews.    And it is a bit of a stretch to think that the last 2000 years have primarily been a focus on Israel ( Jacob... all the Hebrews).  But that time will come when Israel will once again be the primary focus.  

So there is indeed support for a major gap between the 69th and 70th weeks of 7 years.  There will be no doubt in anyone's mind when the 70th week begins... when the covenant is affirmed with national Israel.

 While the Hebrews were in the land during Yeshua's time, they had not been an independent nation since they were exiled to Babylon.   From the time of the Babylonian captivity until 1948, there was no independent Israel.  The land was controlled by Babylon, Greece, Rome, the Muslims including the Ottoman Empire, and Great Britain.  There was a period when the Hasmoneans controlled the territory of Israel, but it was a divided control and not a unified national Israel.

So there is no way the covenant could be affirmed with collective Israel in the first century.  By Rome or anyone else.  And that covenant, I believe, is the Covenant that guarantees the land right to national Israel and is affirmed by the one who comes, the pseudo Messiah / antichrist / man of sin / son of perdition.  Only now are things in place for that to happen.  Thus, the 70th week has not started yet.

This portion of Daniel 9:26 is interesting...

 The end of it shall be with a flood,
And till the end of the war desolations are determined.

Many Hebrew scholars have suggest "flood" in the passage is the diaspora of the Hebrew people.  The entomology of the Hebrew suggest a "washing away" which diaspora of the Hebrew people from the land could be in view.

 

 

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8 hours ago, OldCoot said:

If I may expand on that......

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Yeshua is reading from Isaiah....

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So by default, this passage from Luke supports the idea of a 2000 year gap.   And it does support the idea that the gap is from the time of the Messiah being cut off or more appropriately  in Hebrew, executed, in Daniel 9:26 until the tribulation period when His vengeance will come.

 

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So there is indeed support for a major gap between the 69th and 70th weeks of 7 years.  There will be no doubt in anyone's mind when the 70th week begins... when the covenant is affirmed with national Israel.

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Good job here, OldCoot!

Edited by iamlamad
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