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Diaste

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52 minutes ago, Tampered With said:

Perhaps Iraq?

That's where I'm convinced it will be centered. Babylon figures heavily in eschatology and it's not mere coincidence the Precious Metal kingdoms of Dan 2 all ruled from that city.

The idea of Babylon is its own discussion as it represents a great many things. That being said the city could rise again fulfilling many prophecies. 

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2 hours ago, Diaste said:

Yes. The supernatural dynamic is undeniable in my opinion. 

Prophecy seems to demand this as the driving force for the change from man's rule to the rule of the one true King.

It seems quite obvious Satan comes in great power and metes it to those he uses to foment his penultimate rebellion.

It's interesting to look at Daniel 7 with an eye to the Rev 13 head wound.

When the man of sin comes on the scene, he's seen as a small horn among the 10.  After he rips out 3 of the 10, he is seen as larger.  Horn size reflects power.

Three horns attack his kingdom (an apparent fatal head wound), he destroys the three supernaturally (head wound healed), consequently he is seen as more powerful.  Then the persecution of the saints begins.

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2 hours ago, Diaste said:

The idea of Babylon is its own discussion as it represents a great many things. That being said the city could rise again fulfilling many prophecies.

 

Ancient Babylon is gone forever, never to rise again.

 

Jeremiah 50:39 “Therefore wild beasts shall dwell with hyenas in Babylon, and ostriches shall dwell in her. She shall never again have people, nor be inhabited for all generations. 40 As when God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah and their neighboring cities, declares the Lord, so no man shall dwell there, and no son of man shall sojourn in her."

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4 minutes ago, wingnut- said:

Ancient Babylon is gone forever, never to rise again.

 

Jeremiah 50:39

That sums it up pretty well I think.

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33 minutes ago, BeauJangles said:
40 minutes ago, wingnut- said:

Ancient Babylon is gone forever, never to rise again.

Jeremiah 50:39

That sums it up pretty well I think.

There was Babylon the city, which was destroyed; although Saddam for a while tried to restore it. Babylon the city was partly inhabited until sometime in the first century A.D.

And then there is Babylon the region, which will be destroyed sometime in the future, by the Medes = Kurds.

Isaiah 13

Prophecies about Babylon

1 The oracle concerning Babylon which Isaiah the son of Amoz saw. 2 Lift up a standard on the bare hill, Raise your voice to them, Wave the hand that they may enter the doors of the nobles. 3 I have commanded My consecrated ones, I have even called My mighty warriors, My proudly exulting ones, To execute My anger. 4 A sound of tumult on the mountains, Like that of many people! A sound of the uproar of kingdoms, Of nations gathered together! The LORD of hosts is mustering the army for battle. 5 They are coming from a far country, From the farthest horizons, The LORD and His instruments of indignation, To destroy the whole land.

Judgment on the Day of the LORD

6 Wail, for the day of the LORD is near! It will come as destruction from the Almighty. 7 Therefore all hands will fall limp, And every man's heart will melt. 8 They will be terrified, Pains and anguish will take hold of them; They will writhe like a woman in labor, They will look at one another in astonishment, Their faces aflame.

9 Behold, the day of the LORD is coming, Cruel, with fury and burning anger, To make the land a desolation; And He will exterminate its sinners from it. 10 For the stars of heaven and their constellations Will not flash forth their light; The sun will be dark when it rises And the moon will not shed its light. 11 Thus I will punish the world for its evil And the wicked for their iniquity; I will also put an end to the arrogance of the proud And abase the haughtiness of the ruthless. 12 I will make mortal man scarcer than pure gold And mankind than the gold of Ophir. 13 Therefore I will make the heavens tremble, And the earth will be shaken from its place At the fury of the LORD of hosts In the day of His burning anger.

14 And it will be that like a hunted gazelle, Or like sheep with none to gather them, They will each turn to his own people, And each one flee to his own land. 15 Anyone who is found will be thrust through, And anyone who is captured will fall by the sword. 16 Their little ones also will be dashed to pieces Before their eyes; Their houses will be plundered And their wives ravished.

Babylon Will Fall to the Medes

17 Behold, I am going to stir up the Medes against them, Who will not value silver or take pleasure in gold. 18 And their bows will mow down the young men, They will not even have compassion on the fruit of the womb, Nor will their eye pity children. 19 And Babylon, the beauty of kingdoms, the glory of the Chaldeans' pride, Will be as when God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah. 20 It will never be inhabited or lived in from generation to generation; Nor will the Arab pitch his tent there, Nor will shepherds make their flocks lie down there. 21 But desert creatures will lie down there, And their houses will be full of owls; Ostriches also will live there, and shaggy goats will frolic there. 22 Hyenas will howl in their fortified towers And jackals in their luxurious palaces. Her fateful time also will soon come And her days will not be prolonged.

Edited by WilliamL
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4 minutes ago, WilliamL said:

There was Babylon the city, which was destroyed; although Saddam for a while tried to restore it. Babylon the city was partly inhabited until sometime in the first century A.D.

And then there is Babylon the region, which will be destroyed sometime in the future, by the Medes = Kurds.

Nice post. Thanks for sharing this. 

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27 minutes ago, WilliamL said:

There was Babylon the city, which was destroyed; although Saddam for a while tried to restore it. Babylon the city was partly inhabited until sometime in the first century A.D.

And then there is Babylon the region, which will be destroyed sometime in the future, by the Medes = Kurds.

 

Absolutely brother, no doubt the area itself is still involved in the last days.  The point however of my post is that the city the anti-christ reigns from, the Babylon of end times prophecy, is in fact a city.  Of course everyone has differing opinions on which city that is, but what we know for sure is that it is not ancient Babylon the city.

 

God bless

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8 minutes ago, wingnut- said:

... the city the anti-christ reigns from...

I would be very interested to see how you would go about supporting this statement.

Of course, I don't accept the belief in a "the" antichrist; there will be a number of them.

https://www.worthychristianforums.com/blogs/entry/1150-the-antichrist-myth/

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29 minutes ago, WilliamL said:

I would be very interested to see how you would go about supporting this statement

 

I don't want to derail diaste's thread, but here is a quick summation from just one chapter.

 

Revelation 17  Then one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls came and said to me, “Come, I will show you the judgment of the great prostitute who is seated on many waters, 2 with whom the kings of the earth have committed sexual immorality, and with the wine of whose sexual immorality the dwellers on earth have become drunk.”

 

So you begin with this woman whose sexual immorality and wine has affected the kings of the earth and those who dwell on the earth.

 

5 And on her forehead was written a name of mystery: “Babylon the great, mother of prostitutes and of earth's abominations.” 6 And I saw the woman, drunk with the blood of the saints, the blood of the martyrs of Jesus.

 

The woman is identified as "Babylon the great", who is drunk with the blood of the saints and martyrs of Jesus.

 

15 And the angel said to me, “The waters that you saw, where the prostitute is seated, are peoples and multitudes and nations and languages. 

 

Now an angel, a messenger of God reveals the meanings of some symbols, such as the waters representing numerous peoples, nations, and languages.

 

 18 And the woman that you saw is the great city that has dominion over the kings of the earth.”

 

And lastly, that the woman is the "great city" ruling over everyone else.  So what we have is one city, with dominion over the kings of the earth and having an influence on everyone else that is not positive.  Also accredited with all the blood being shed in the war against the saints.

 

God bless

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Just a commentary here. I'm no expert on the subject, but this was of notable interest. Sorry, but it is a little lengthy. I can't vouch for any biblical accuracy from the author. It is as it is. 

 

What Is Babylon?

by Jim Haeffele

Babylon was once a great and feared kingdom. Today, its capital city is a heap of dried bricks and stones in Iraq. What does it represent in the future?

 

The Bible interprets its symbols

It is important to understand that when the Bible uses symbolic language, the Bible interprets its symbols for us. We do not have to guess at the meaning. For example, when a woman is used symbolically in Scripture, she represents a church—a group of people. Paul uses the symbol of “a chaste virgin” for the Church that will be presented to Christ (2 Corinthians 11:2), and Christ refers to His bride in Revelation as a wife or woman (Revelation 19:7).

The woman in Revelation 17 is a church, but not the Church that was established by Jesus Christ. Notice what this church does to those who obey God and follow Jesus Christ: “And I saw the woman, drunk with the blood of the saints and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus. And when I saw her, I marveled with great amazement” (Revelation 17:6). This woman, called Babylon the Great, is an apostate church that has been responsible for the martyrdom of many true followers of Jesus Christ.

The Bible identifies this woman in the last verse of chapter 17, “And the woman whom you saw is that great city which reigns over the kings of the earth” (verse 18). At the time John wrote this verse, and in the centuries that followed, the city that reigned over the kings of the earth was Rome. And the church associated with Rome is the Roman Catholic Church, which is headquartered in Vatican City in Rome.

The Adam Clarke Commentary adds this statement, “It has already been shown that the woman sitting upon the seven-headed beast is a representation of the Latin [meaning Roman] Church; here we have the greatest assurance that it is so, because the woman is called a city, which is a much plainer emblem of a Church, as the word is used unequivocally in this sense in so many parts of Scripture that we cannot well mistake its meaning” (notes on Revelation 17:18).

Who are the beasts?

The Bible says the woman rides or sits on a scarlet beast (Revelation 17:3). This beast is described in Revelation 13:2 as being “like a leopard, his feet were like the feet of a bear, and his mouth like the mouth of a lion. The dragon [Satan, Revelation 12:9] gave him his power, his throne, and great authority.”

This scarlet beast is not a description of a church. Instead, it represents the civil government of the Roman Empire.

 

This beast was “mortally wounded,” but later this “deadly wound was healed” (verses 3-4). Historically, the Roman Empire was overrun and came to an end in A.D. 476. Ten horns (Revelation 13:1) representing restorations of this empire were predicted to occur. The first revivals included the Vandals (429-533), the Heruli (476-493) and the Ostrogoths (493-554).

The next revival was the “Imperial Restoration” in 554 when Justinian, emperor of Byzantium, the Eastern Roman Empire, restored the western provinces to his domain. Through succeeding restorations, Catholic popes conferred the title of Holy Roman Emperor to Charlemagne (800), Otto the Great (962), Charles the Great (1520) and Napoleon (1805). The most recent revival was the German-Italian alliance (under Hitler and Mussolini), which tried to unite Europe by force in the 1930s and 1940s. Adolf Hitler considered Nazi Germany an extension of past German-dominated revivals of the Holy Roman Empire, while Benito Mussolini saw himself as a modern “Caesar” over a revived Roman Empire.

How did the revived Roman Empire receive the title of “holy”? We are told in Revelation 13:11-12 about a second beast. “Then I saw another beast coming up out of the earth, and he had two horns like a lamb and spoke like a dragon. And he exercises all the authority of the first beast in his presence, and causes the earth and those who dwell in it to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.”

This beast is the woman (church), Babylon the Great, that appears as a lamb like Christ, but actually speaks “like a dragon”—Satan. This beast, through its head, the pope, crowned the various heads of state as emperors of the “holy” Roman Empire.

Two beasts prophesied by Daniel

The book of Revelation is not the beginning of the prophecy of this union of church and state. The prophecy begins in the seventh chapter of Daniel. The first six verses of Daniel 7 recount the dream Daniel was given, symbolizing the first three great empires of the ancient world. Babylon was represented by a lion; Persia, by a bear; and Greece, by a leopard.

In verse 7, Daniel continues: “After this I saw in the night visions, and behold, a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, exceedingly strong. It had huge iron teeth; it was devouring, breaking in pieces, and trampling the residue with its feet. It was different from all the beasts that were before it, and it had ten horns.”

History has shown that the fourth great kingdom, which had “iron teeth,” was the Roman Empire. (Compare this with Nebuchadnezzar’s dream in Daniel 2:40.)

Daniel then wrote: “I was considering the horns, and there was another horn, a little one, coming up among them. … And there, in this horn, were eyes like the eyes of a man, and a mouth speaking pompous words” (verse 8). This little horn accompanies the beast and its 10 kings that “arise from this kingdom” (verse 24).

This little horn is described as “making war against the saints, and prevailing against them” (verse 21). This is what the woman called Babylon the Great will do to true Christians (Revelation 17:6).

The “little horn” of Daniel 7, the second beast of Revelation 13, and the woman of Revelation 17 are all describing the same New Testament Babylon, which is the Roman Catholic Church.

Future actions of Babylon the Great

So far, we have looked briefly at the prophecies of Babylon that have taken place over the last 2,000 years and at what it will do in the future. But what else does the Bible say about the future of this apostate church that is called Babylon the Great?

Jesus, speaking of events before His return, said, “For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be” (Matthew 24:21). He followed this by saying there would be strong religious deception so as “to deceive, if possible, even the elect” (verses 23-24).

The apostle Paul explained how this deception would come about in writing to the church at Thessalonica. He wrote, “Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God” (2 Thessalonians 2:3-4). The popes have claimed the title “vicar of Christ,” which means “to stand in the place of Jesus Christ.”

The Adam Clarke Commentary describes this “man of sin” in verse 4 as “having the highest place and authority in the Christian Church, he acts as God—taking upon himself God’s titles and attributes, and arrogating to himself the authority that belongs to the Most High” (note on 2 Thessalonians 2:4). God reveals that prior to the return of Jesus Christ many will be deceived by this coming individual and the false religious system that is behind him.

Babylon the Great with its entire system centered in Rome and the final pope who is called a false prophet (Revelation 19:20) will come to a sudden end when Jesus Christ returns.

Revelation 18 says in “one day” and “in one hour” “that great city” will come to an end (verses 2, 8, 10, 17, 19, 21). It also reveals that God will hold Babylon responsible for having martyred the true servants of Jesus Christ (verses 20, 24).

God has decreed harsh judgment on Babylon the Great because of her rebellion against God and her cruel treatment of God’s people. As Albert Barnes explains, “The idea is that of utter desolation; and the meaning here is, that spiritual Babylon—papal Rome will be reduced to a state of utter desolation resembling that of the real Babylon” (Notes on the Bible, Revelation 18:2).

A final warning

The end of Babylon comes with a warning to all believers to act before it is too late. “And I heard another voice from heaven saying, ‘Come out of her, my people, lest you share in her sins, and lest you receive of her plagues’” (Revelation 18:4).

May we all heed this warning so we will not share in the sins of modern Babylon or receive her plagues. For additional study on the false religious leader prophesied to appear at the end of this age, read our article “Antichrist.”

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