Revlori Posted November 6, 2019 Group: Senior Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 34 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 635 Content Per Day: 0.39 Reputation: 843 Days Won: 1 Joined: 10/31/2019 Status: Offline Author Share Posted November 6, 2019 1 hour ago, Who me said: Jesus asked his Father to forgive them. He did not forgive them. God only forgives us when we repent and that is the pattern found through out the bible. read the two parables Jesus taught that I quoted. No where have I said that one holds on two the bitterness, anger, resentment etc etc that follows being hurt. I have repeated said that we follow Jesus example when he was on the cross of handing the situation, the hurt, anger, etc etc over to God. I'll ask again. A parent has lost their child and are greiving. Is it right that that parent should be asked to forgive a hit and run car driver or should they be counselled to hand the situation over to God. Which is the more compassionate course of action? I really feel for you. Your answers seem to indicate your need for understanding into God's word. The entire message of salvation and his divine love that covers a multitude of sin and walking as Christ in perfect love, which He and God are love. First and formost, Jesus and God are one yet three in the trinity ( the Father, the Son Jesus Christ and Holy Spirit) Jesus did forgive them as he himself is God. Remember Jesus speaks what the Father says.( John 12:49-50 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.”And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.”) you are correct that God forgives us when we repent.( Romans 10:13 13For whosoever shall call upon the name of the LORD shall be saved. ) But God also requires us to forgive those who personally sin against us, just as he does.( Matthew 6:14-15 14For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you: 15But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.) I will say again that without forgiveness, how can you let go of the pain, hurt, resentment and anger? For forgiveness means Webster's 1828 Dictionary Forgiveness FORGIV'ENESS, noun forgiv'ness. 1. The act of forgiving; the pardon of an offender, by which he is considered and treated as not guilty. The forgiveness of enemies is a christian duty. 2. The pardon or remission of an offense or crime; as the forgiveness of sin or of injuries. 3. Disposition to pardon; willingness to forgive. And mild forgiveness intercede to stop the coming blow. 4. Remission of a debt, fine or penalty. We can forgive others as we release resentment,hurt, pain and anger. We give up all rights to be compensated for the hurt or loss we have suffered. God shows us that unselfish love is true forgiveness, because love (1 Corinthians 13:4-5 New International Version (NIV) 4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs.) And pertaining to your question,You asked (I'll ask again. A parent has lost their child and are greiving. Is it right that that parent should be asked to forgive a hit and run car driver or should they be counselled to hand the situation over to God.) leading those in horrible pain to God is the first step, however this doesn't tell them not to forgive. You ask (Which is the more compassionate course of action? ) Webster's 1828 Dictionary Compassion COMPASSION, noun 1. A suffering with another; painful sympathy; a sensation of sorrow excited by the distress or misfortunes of another; pity; commiseration. compassion is a mixed passion, compounded of love and sorrow; at least some portion of love generally attends the pain or regret, or is excited by it. Extreme distress of an enemy even changes enmity into at least temporary affection. He being full of compassion forgave their iniquity. Psalms 78:38. His father had compassion and ran, and fell on his neck, and kissed him. Luke 15:20. COMPASSION, verb transitive To pity. The question is ( Does one have to forgive those who have not ask for forgiveness? ) and that answer dear friend is YES.... Through Christ all things are possible and I can do all things through Christ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coliseum Posted November 6, 2019 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 14 Topic Count: 133 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 1,123 Content Per Day: 0.66 Reputation: 2,055 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/07/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted November 6, 2019 (edited) On 10/31/2019 at 4:36 PM, Revlori said: I'm sorry but this is being taken out of context. Every Christian is required to forgive with no conditions. For again if we do not forgive then we are not forgiven. So please take a closer look at what Jesus says. Dear sister, The question is really, "What is our motive for forgiving"? Are we trying to be outwardly compliant in just doing works because we must (Law), or are we desiring to forgive from the love in our hearts because Jesus first forgave us (grace)? If the first, then our forgiveness means virtually nothing. It is our own fallen attempt to force ourselves from being sinful, not realizing that tomorrow, 25 more wheelbarrows full of sin are dumped into our laps; if the second, then the Spirit, who is full of love, is motivating us. Edited November 6, 2019 by Coliseum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Revlori Posted November 6, 2019 Group: Senior Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 34 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 635 Content Per Day: 0.39 Reputation: 843 Days Won: 1 Joined: 10/31/2019 Status: Offline Author Share Posted November 6, 2019 10 minutes ago, Coliseum said: Dear sister, The question is really, "What is our motive for forgiving"? Are we trying to be outwardly compliant in just doing works because we must (Law), or are we desiring to forgive from the love in our hearts because Jesus first forgave us (grace)? If the first, then our forgiveness means virtually nothing. It is our own fallen attempt to force ourselves from being sinful, not realizing that tomorrow, 25 more wheelbarrows full of sin are dumped into our laps; if the second, then the Spirit, who is full of love, is motivating us. I agree with this, I do think however, that as Christians walking in the spirit,when we are faced with horrible pain from people who are not remorseful, and even those who hurt us deeply that ask for forgiveness.That in our heart of heart desire to walk as Christ. This pain within us becomes less as we willingly forgive and let God heal. This is an amazing process with God, as anyone who has faced such horrific pain in there lives from the hands of the unrepented or the repented.God brings healing and restoration. We know deep within that were required to do this as well but the later ( forgiving because we have Christ within, which is love) begins to out way the first. So this is a question to ask ourselves as we are hurt (what are the motives for forgiving those who hurt us) But to those who are not willing to forgive at all is another issue all together and to them, we must then try and show them God's love of forgiveness. God bless my friend Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Who me Posted November 7, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 17 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,299 Content Per Day: 1.72 Reputation: 1,685 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/27/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted November 7, 2019 19 hours ago, Billiards Ball said: I would counsel the couple to hand the situation over to God and their anger also, via forgiveness. Quite a few hit and run drivers have gotten saved after such forgiveness was exhibited! It is important that forgiveness should not be made a demand. If there is no repentance forgiveness is there choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Who me Posted November 7, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 17 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,299 Content Per Day: 1.72 Reputation: 1,685 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/27/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted November 7, 2019 19 hours ago, Revlori said: I really feel for you. Your answers seem to indicate your need for understanding into God's word. The entire message of salvation and his divine love that covers a multitude of sin and walking as Christ in perfect love, which He and God are love. First and formost, Jesus and God are one yet three in the trinity ( the Father, the Son Jesus Christ and Holy Spirit) Jesus did forgive them as he himself is God. Remember Jesus speaks what the Father says.( John 12:49-50 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.”And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.”) you are correct that God forgives us when we repent.( Romans 10:13 13For whosoever shall call upon the name of the LORD shall be saved. ) But God also requires us to forgive those who personally sin against us, just as he does.( Matthew 6:14-15 14For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you: 15But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.) I will say again that without forgiveness, how can you let go of the pain, hurt, resentment and anger? For forgiveness means Webster's 1828 Dictionary Forgiveness FORGIV'ENESS, noun forgiv'ness. 1. The act of forgiving; the pardon of an offender, by which he is considered and treated as not guilty. The forgiveness of enemies is a christian duty. 2. The pardon or remission of an offense or crime; as the forgiveness of sin or of injuries. 3. Disposition to pardon; willingness to forgive. And mild forgiveness intercede to stop the coming blow. 4. Remission of a debt, fine or penalty. We can forgive others as we release resentment,hurt, pain and anger. We give up all rights to be compensated for the hurt or loss we have suffered. God shows us that unselfish love is true forgiveness, because love (1 Corinthians 13:4-5 New International Version (NIV) 4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs.) And pertaining to your question,You asked (I'll ask again. A parent has lost their child and are greiving. Is it right that that parent should be asked to forgive a hit and run car driver or should they be counselled to hand the situation over to God.) leading those in horrible pain to God is the first step, however this doesn't tell them not to forgive. You ask (Which is the more compassionate course of action? ) Webster's 1828 Dictionary Compassion COMPASSION, noun 1. A suffering with another; painful sympathy; a sensation of sorrow excited by the distress or misfortunes of another; pity; commiseration. compassion is a mixed passion, compounded of love and sorrow; at least some portion of love generally attends the pain or regret, or is excited by it. Extreme distress of an enemy even changes enmity into at least temporary affection. He being full of compassion forgave their iniquity. Psalms 78:38. His father had compassion and ran, and fell on his neck, and kissed him. Luke 15:20. COMPASSION, verb transitive To pity. The question is ( Does one have to forgive those who have not ask for forgiveness? ) and that answer dear friend is YES.... Through Christ all things are possible and I can do all things through Christ! Accept God only forgive when there is repentance. That is seen through out the Bible. From your reply you would push the grieving parents to say they forgive. All you are doing is looking at the verse that say we must forgive. You don't look or try to understand what the Bible says about repentance or see how that challenges your understanding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Revlori Posted November 7, 2019 Group: Senior Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 34 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 635 Content Per Day: 0.39 Reputation: 843 Days Won: 1 Joined: 10/31/2019 Status: Offline Author Share Posted November 7, 2019 3 hours ago, Who me said: Accept God only forgive when there is repentance. That is seen through out the Bible. From your reply you would push the grieving parents to say they forgive. All you are doing is looking at the verse that say we must forgive. You don't look or try to understand what the Bible says about repentance or see how that challenges your understanding. I am finished with this subject, I have tried to show you and others God's divine ( Agape )love and his forgiveness through his word. God's love is referred to as agape love which is the highest form of love that is selfless and sacrificial. It is steadfast, unchanging, and unconditional. I have tried to show you and others how to FORGIVE those who may have hurt you or to anyone who is dealing with this horrible pain of people who have hurt them and are not Remorseful ( such as I have truly forgiven those who have really pierced my heart and life as well as ones close to me) The truth of God's word and his healing power sets people free to FORGIVE all people my friend. May God truly bless you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coliseum Posted November 7, 2019 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 14 Topic Count: 133 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 1,123 Content Per Day: 0.66 Reputation: 2,055 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/07/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted November 7, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Revlori said: I am finished with this subject, I have tried to show you and others God's divine ( Agape )love and his forgiveness through his word. God's love is referred to as agape love which is the highest form of love that is selfless and sacrificial. It is steadfast, unchanging, and unconditional. I have tried to show you and others how to FORGIVE those who may have hurt you or to anyone who is dealing with this horrible pain of people who have hurt them and are not Remorseful ( such as I have truly forgiven those who have really pierced my heart and life as well as ones close to me) The truth of God's word and his healing power sets people free to FORGIVE all people my friend. May God truly bless you Hi Revlori. Dear sister, you have taken to heart how we ought to treat one another. But our forgiveness is not based upon what I ought to do, but the grace God gives us. What the ideal is, is not what actually happens many times; we are messy people. Forgiveness is not always automatically instantaneous. A person must come to a place he is ready. How long for one person may not be the same for another. Yes, as one dear Pastor put it when an aggressor asked him if he would forgive him, the Pastor said, "No, I cannot forgive you only. We both must forgive each other; we are both sinners." That is truly the right response, but all Christians have not gotten to that place at once. It is God's grace, not our fearful expectation if we don't. It once took me six weeks to forgive someone, and only because a dear sister tenderly took me aside---not to berate me---but to sensitively share what the Spirit was telling her to share. "Yes Coliseum," she said. "God does have patience, and He does have grace, and while He is waiting for you to forgive this person, you are reaping what you are sowing. If you are sowing bitterness in your heart, that is what you will reap." When she said that, I saw God not as a tyrant, but my Daddy tenderly waiting for me to do what I then was ready to do. When I looked into her eyes, tears of compassion were running down her cheeks. I forgave that person, not because of the Law, but because someone showed me a better way. Now, I desired to love my Daddy the way He was deeply loving me. It is by grace, patience, and tenderness. Eph 4:2 "Be completely humble and gentle. Be patient, bearing with one another in love." God bless you. Edited November 7, 2019 by Coliseum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billiards Ball Posted November 7, 2019 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,502 Content Per Day: 0.66 Reputation: 662 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/05/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted November 7, 2019 5 hours ago, Who me said: It is important that forgiveness should not be made a demand. If there is no repentance forgiveness is there choice. So if someone wrongs me than dies soon after, without repenting, I just remain angry at their deceased corpse for the rest of my life? Forgiveness isn't biblically a favor I owe someone, it's a way to be released from having someone hold power over me, and can helped the abused find more freedom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Who me Posted November 8, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 17 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,299 Content Per Day: 1.72 Reputation: 1,685 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/27/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted November 8, 2019 22 hours ago, Billiards Ball said: So if someone wrongs me than dies soon after, without repenting, I just remain angry at their deceased corpse for the rest of my life? Forgiveness isn't biblically a favor I owe someone, it's a way to be released from having someone hold power over me, and can helped the abused find more freedom. BB, As I have said before and will say again. If one is hurt by another who does not recognise the hurt or is unable to say sorry. All one has to do is like Jesus on the cross is hand the situation, the people, ones feelings etc over to God for him to deal with. In doing so one is starting to pray for them and it is upto you as to how far you take that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Who me Posted November 8, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 17 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,299 Content Per Day: 1.72 Reputation: 1,685 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/27/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted November 8, 2019 23 hours ago, Revlori said: I am finished with this subject, I have tried to show you and others God's divine ( Agape )love and his forgiveness through his word. God's love is referred to as agape love which is the highest form of love that is selfless and sacrificial. It is steadfast, unchanging, and unconditional. I have tried to show you and others how to FORGIVE those who may have hurt you or to anyone who is dealing with this horrible pain of people who have hurt them and are not Remorseful ( such as I have truly forgiven those who have really pierced my heart and life as well as ones close to me) The truth of God's word and his healing power sets people free to FORGIVE all people my friend. May God truly bless you I am sorry you will not examine verses that challenge your position. No doubt we will exchange views on here again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts