BeauJangles Posted November 1, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 44 Topic Count: 229 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 10,900 Content Per Day: 2.93 Reputation: 12,145 Days Won: 68 Joined: 02/13/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/14/1954 Share Posted November 1, 2019 6 minutes ago, Billiards Ball said: JESUS WAS NOT CREATED. No one but a person in total ignorance could believe this. Jesus IS the Creator, being our evident manifestation of the Holy Trinity. John 1:3 3All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. KJV Colossians 1:16-20 16For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: 17And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. 18And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. 19For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell; 20And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven. KJV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Adams Posted November 1, 2019 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 25 Topic Count: 61 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 9,605 Content Per Day: 3.97 Reputation: 7,795 Days Won: 21 Joined: 09/11/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted November 1, 2019 (edited) Due to much discovery in the way of ordinry Greek writings, monogenese is NOT a relational (birthing/offspring) thing as first thought. That is why "only begotten" was the phrase. Monogenes is ONE ALONE, UNIQUE and THE ONLY ONE of His kind. "begotten" is a wrong translation. Dr. M. S. Heiser: " “Only begotten” is an unfortunately confusing translation, especially to modern ears. Not only does the translation “only begotten”seem to contradict the obvious statements in the Old Testament about other sons of God, it implies that there was a time when the Son did not exist—that he had a beginning. The Greek word translated by this phrase is monogenes. It doesn’t mean “only begotten” in some sort of “birthing” sense. The confusion extends from an old misunderstanding of the root of the Greek word. For years monogenes was thought to have derived from two Greek terms, monos (“only”) and gennao (“to beget, bear”). Greek scholars later discovered that the second part of the word monogenes does not come from the Greek verb gennao, but rather from the noun genos (“class, kind”). The term literally means “one of a kind ” or “unique” without connotation of created origin. Consequently , since Jesus is indeed identified with Yahweh and is therefore, with Yahweh, unique among the elohim that serve God, the term monogenes does not contradict the Old Testament” " https://livinggospeldaily.com/does-the-bible-really-say-only-begotten-son-buckle-up-this-might-ruffle-some-feathers/ Edited November 1, 2019 by Justin Adams 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IloveyouGod. Posted November 1, 2019 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 13 Topic Count: 11 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,408 Content Per Day: 1.40 Reputation: 1,811 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/11/2019 Status: Offline Author Share Posted November 1, 2019 Thank you all for explaining that to me! It now makes much more sense! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis1209 Posted November 1, 2019 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 18 Topic Count: 347 Topics Per Day: 0.13 Content Count: 7,463 Content Per Day: 2.70 Reputation: 5,375 Days Won: 1 Joined: 09/27/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted November 1, 2019 On 10/31/2019 at 4:08 PM, TheAimes said: Beget means to generate or procreate. The usage of the word in John 3:16 implies this "pertaining to being the only one of its kind or class, unique in kind" if you look it up in the greek. Kinda neat huh? Jesus was the only One of His kind - the ONLY begotten Son. You're exactly right! How did you come to that knowledge? It can't be found in Strong's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis1209 Posted November 1, 2019 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 18 Topic Count: 347 Topics Per Day: 0.13 Content Count: 7,463 Content Per Day: 2.70 Reputation: 5,375 Days Won: 1 Joined: 09/27/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted November 1, 2019 (edited) On 10/31/2019 at 5:12 PM, other one said: it is interesting to look into. The meanings in the original language are not exactly the same. The Hebrew word basically means to give birth to or beget. In John that is a Greek word that means close to the same as to beget or be the father/mother of, but it also carries the distinction of the only one. So that single word is translated "only begotten" I don't know what materials you are using to read and look things up. On my desk top I have a rather expensive Bible Study program with all kinds of things you can use. On my phone and tablet for things of this matter I use a free program "My Sword" It has several different translations but one of the King James versions has the strongs numbers with it and one touch to see the meanings of the original language words. May I ask what Bible study program you use on your desk top? What are your likes and dislikes? I use a nice program called SwordSearcher [$60.00 I think], for the price it does pretty much of what I need. I'm seriously considering getting the LOGOS software from Dr. Michael Heiser [around $300.00 I think?]. I have the free program e-Sword on my iPad that comes in very handy. There's nothing like having the written word of God in your hand in the form of our paper Bibles with nice leather coverings. But it sure is nice using my iPad for sermons and Bible study when we're constantly flipping from book to book. Three quick taps of the finger and I'm there while I'm hearing everyone else flipping pages Correction: Just as I posted this, I thought I'd check the LOGOS website. That software is $1,000.00, not $300.00 as I was thinking! Now I'd say that's rather expensive!!! Edited November 2, 2019 by Dennis1209 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aimes Posted November 2, 2019 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 26 Topic Count: 35 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 6,734 Content Per Day: 2.77 Reputation: 8,345 Days Won: 21 Joined: 08/29/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted November 2, 2019 2 hours ago, Dennis1209 said: You're exactly right! How did you come to that knowledge? It can't be found in Strong's. I love the Zodhiates Word Study - I used to love breaking down scriptures for fun and learning hidden truths in the greek and started with this one, the most famous verse ever, many moons ago. I can't be totally certain but I'm quite sure that's where I learned the above, but I know Strong's doesn't go as in depth as the Zodhiates does so I'd lean toward it being in there. I'm an ex Bible College nerd so 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Adams Posted November 2, 2019 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 25 Topic Count: 61 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 9,605 Content Per Day: 3.97 Reputation: 7,795 Days Won: 21 Joined: 09/11/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted November 2, 2019 (edited) Any commentary before 2010 (or translation) will not include Qumran scriptures and cylinder transcribed cuneiform. This means that Aramaic, Hebrew, early Hebrew, classical Aramaic Targums and much more will not be included. The stuff we grew up with is the best they had then, but the later discoveries of EARLIER texts is far more accurate and has not been 'doctored' so much to fit theology. Also, like MONOGENES mistranslations are today less likely because of the thousands of text fragments we now can use in computer models and recognition programs specifically designed to 'catch' certain phrases or words in order to better illustrate their usages and applications. The council of Nicaea tried to offset the newer Gnostic ideas and this cumbersome Creed sought to establish the unquestionable Deity of Yeshua. So they misapplied MONOGENES and came up with 'only begotten' which unfortunately is wrong. So most all bible dictionaries before 2010 will also be wrong. P.s. We also have un-doctored versions of the Septuagint. The ones that Yeshua and His Apostles used. Plus, the Targums of His day as most ordinary people understood only Aramaic. Edited November 2, 2019 by Justin Adams Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted November 2, 2019 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 596 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,096 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,834 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted November 2, 2019 11 hours ago, Dennis1209 said: May I ask what Bible study program you use on your desk top? What are your likes and dislikes? I use a nice program called SwordSearcher [$60.00 I think], for the price it does pretty much of what I need. I'm seriously considering getting the LOGOS software from Dr. Michael Heiser [around $300.00 I think?]. I have the free program e-Sword on my iPad that comes in very handy. There's nothing like having the written word of God in your hand in the form of our paper Bibles with nice leather coverings. But it sure is nice using my iPad for sermons and Bible study when we're constantly flipping from book to book. Three quick taps of the finger and I'm there while I'm hearing everyone else flipping pages Correction: Just as I posted this, I thought I'd check the LOGOS website. That software is $1,000.00, not $300.00 as I was thinking! Now I'd say that's rather expensive!!! "PC Bible Study" by BibleSoft. there are three versions of it at very different prices... What I bought several years ago was the lower priced one. At that time it was about $400. I think the price has dropped to about $150 or so. some of the things it has and they are pretty much linked together. There is more to it than I can show. The whole library is 13 pages of the things in it. And they allowed me to put in on my desk top and my laptop. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeauJangles Posted November 2, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 44 Topic Count: 229 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 10,900 Content Per Day: 2.93 Reputation: 12,145 Days Won: 68 Joined: 02/13/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/14/1954 Share Posted November 2, 2019 (edited) 3 hours ago, Betha said: To Beget means 'to father' Yes, that's my understanding also. See reference highlighted from previous post below. On 10/31/2019 at 2:11 PM, BeauJangles said: Used metaphorically of God's relation to Israel ( Deuteronomy 32:18) and to the Messianic king ( Psalms 2:7 ); (gennao, "to beget," or "bear"): generally used of a father ( Matthew 1:1-16 ); 3 hours ago, Betha said: Basically 'to BEGET is to have SEX ! there is no getting around it. Okay. And thus offspring. Edited November 2, 2019 by BeauJangles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeauJangles Posted November 2, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 44 Topic Count: 229 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 10,900 Content Per Day: 2.93 Reputation: 12,145 Days Won: 68 Joined: 02/13/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/14/1954 Share Posted November 2, 2019 14 minutes ago, Betha said: It goes without saying that GOD does not BEGET in the same way Humans and Animals do... No, He surely does not. 15 minutes ago, Betha said: God makes no mistakes as we also see from His choice of Yashuah's/Jesus' Mother Mary who had the exact qualifications for the awesome job. Amen to that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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