Question Regarding The Word Begotten.

[choir loft]

On 11/1/2019 at 8:46 AM, Billiards Ball said:

For Jesus, "begotten" means "resurrected from the dead", not "God created the Son."

The word "begotten" doesn't refer to resurrection.    

According to the gospels, there were three specific individuals that Jesus brought back from the dead; Lazarus, Jairus' daughter and the young man.  None of them were begotten.   According to the gospels several hundred saints were resurrected in Jerusalem upon the occasion of Jesus' death on the cross.  None of them were begotten either.  

The word "begotten" doesn't appear in all translations.  Most of the time it appears in the old testament in reference to a child (Isaiah 45:10) or as something God has created directly (Job 38:28).  All human children are begotten.   It appears in the new testament as either a direct offspring of God (Hebrews 5:5, Acts 13:33), or as a disciple of Christ (Philemon 1:10).  The meaning of the word is really quite simple, but priests like to confuse it so as to make themselves look important.    

The issue here isn't the word or its meaning.  

The word "begotten" is a theological onion that priests love to peel away one layer at a time.  They do it to show off their knowledge of human rhetoric and Greek philosophy upon which most Christian doctrine is based (not the Bible, by the way).  It has no meaning except for use in ceremonial prayers, the language of which is deliberately obfuscated so as to sound highly religious.  I know because I attended an Episcopal seminary where we were taught these things.  The poor folk in the pews are unaware they're being deliberately manipulated by the priests.

JESUS IS GOD.

Upon this fact is the fulfillment of the LAW based.  

Upon this fact is the crucifixion made powerful.  

Upon this fact does faith in Christ depend.  

No other.

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

Edited November 3, 2019 by choir loft

[Justin Adams]

Modern translations do not use 'begotten' since it is not only anacronistic, but also worongly translated. MONOGENESE. Look it up in a modern Greek dictionary.

[dhchristian]

7 hours ago, Justin Adams said:

Modern translations do not use 'begotten' since it is not only anacronistic, but also worongly translated. MONOGENESE. Look it up in a modern Greek dictionary.

Why are you so vague about this topic Justin? Afraid of saying what you mean?

[choir loft]

20 hours ago, Betha said:

I would not say the word 'begotten ' is quite as meaningless as you say, nor does it refer only to human children....GOD Himself uses it when referring to His SON  Heb 1v5...and again when referring to US  His future Sons and Daughters Jas 1v18;  2 Cor 6v18.

Not having this vital fact revealed to us would leave us rather in the dark.  On the human level it hints at 'personal intimacy' (sex) which the RCC did all to suppress and that is why it is not in use even today.

I wrote that it's meaningless because the term isn't used in common vernacular today.   The Bible uses it to describe the origins of human children as well as the Son of God.

The church uses it as a sort of catch-all phrase to stun its congregation into intellectual numbness and justify the priest or minister's position as chief spiritual know-it-all.

Begotten, regardless of the parent, simply means 'child of'. 

Jesus simply called his progenitor FATHER.

As adopted children, we are invited to do the same.

that's me, hollering from the choir loft....

[choir loft]

20 hours ago, Justin Adams said:

Modern translations do not use 'begotten' since it is not only anacronistic, but also worongly translated. MONOGENESE. Look it up in a modern Greek dictionary.

Well said.

I agree.

Thanks for pointing that out.

CL

[Know Jah]

I agree from my studies begotten means procreate or means one of a kind. So Jesus is one of a kind. Therefore could Jesus be Almighty God?

[Justin Adams]

Not quite. MONOGENES is the word used to describe Isaac. Does not mean and cannot be used to denote 'only son' because Abram had at least two and Isaac was not even the first born. So the word MONOGENES mean ONLY UNIQUE ONE. Not 'begotten' which intimates a birth or progenitor of. YESHUA was not 'birthed' from God. He is extant, and always has been. The rather cumbersome creed just confuses.

Edited November 6, 2019 by Justin Adams

[Seasoned by Grace]

I see nothing wrong with coming here at your beginning search, but when life and learning get really exciting is when you start buying study tools  that will even take you into other languages that the bible was originally written in and you'll find many words that have had their meanings changed, and idea's re-purposed to fit the meaning others want to believe and don't necessarily fit God's idea's and original point of view. The same here, that you'll receive answers from a multitude of different beliefs.

For me in my studies starting decades ago, I wanted to at some point to develop a more, separate "Virgin" view of God's truth, instead of a more "COOKIE CUTTER" belief that people develop by FOLLOWING THE HERD. I decided I wanted to "PROOF" everything out for myself, believing God's word that says one of the jobs of the Holy Spirit is to lead us into all truth. So for the next 40 some years I believed and was led . LOVE IT.

You will often hear people "WAXING LYRICAL" (Chariot's of Fire quote) about how the bible hasn't changed in 2000 years...... and they are right, if you are talking about the original Greek and Hebrew texts. Even be careful there, as there are, again, those who will take even the original text and arrange the meanings to fit their doctrine. That's why I have purchased a large variety of topical study books and have adopted the "MAJORITY TEXT BIBLE idea of listening to the majority opinions of authors, and so far there is a harmony between the authors I've chosen to accept as close or " SPOT ON".

If you check to see how many translations or even transliterations there are now, you'll find hundreds, each reflecting enough differences not only in word meanings, but in subtle doctrinal "TWISTS" that either reflect the authors bent to certain preferences, or even Publishers doctrinal beliefs, that may be tenuous if compared to God's intention...so be aware.

I'm careful now especially of the larger  publishing houses who tend to reflect the more popular doctrinal themes such as an easier salvation than Paul preaches, for example, when buying my study aids and if I do purchase their book, take time to consider their doctrine, and censor out some of their mis-beliefs, at least to me.

I have a pretty solid, well studied, foundational faith, so it's pretty easy for me to sort out what works and what doesn't for me, as the Bereans did, reflected in the book of acts when Paul and Silas went to Thessalonica.

All of this may sound like I have over-extended myself into my studies, but I am "BETTING" my eternal life, with Gods continuous help, that all I have learned and will continue to learn and apply to my life, will lead me to the same place and the same mindset as Paul's about his salvation at the end of his life...no ones else's.

Edited November 18, 2019 by Seasoned by Grace

[Prycejosh1987]

On 10/31/2019 at 8:51 PM, IloveyouGod. said:

Hi all.

Okay. 

I was reading through the bible and a biblical concordance we have, (I think it is a concordance though not sure)  and I noticed in psalm 2:7 and John 3:16 that they booth use the word Begotten.   What does the word begotten and also the word beget mean? 

 

That is a good question. I seems from reading scripture that beget means to bring forth and begotten means to be known as. We can be beget as sons of god, but Jesus was always begotten as a son of god. We will be the same as Jesus in heaven. Jesus did a lot more than just die for our sin, and its pretty amazing when i think about it.