women in the pulpit

[missmuffet]

The Bible tells us women are not to be Church leaders such as Pastors. Women can teach Sunday School or Bible studies. 

 

Edited November 4, 2019 by missmuffet

[Sower]

From SBC Life

 

May 01, 1998 | Doctrine | by Richard R Melick Jr

 

 

Women Pastors: What Does the Bible Teach?

 

 

The debate about whether a woman is permitted to be a pastor continues to intensify. Although there is scant historical precedent for it, many today claim that either men or women may be pastors. Throughout the centuries, Christian theologians have reflected on this issue, and the preponderance of them have concluded that the pastoral role is exclusively assigned to men. This has been the position of the Southern Baptist Convention since its earliest days, though a few Southern Baptist churches have disagreed and installed women pastors. In the current discussions of gender roles, there is a need for clear thinking about what the Bible says.

The question requires careful analysis. Southern Baptists have claimed that their doctrinal positions were either taught in the Bible or were, at the least, not contrary to the explicit teachings of Scripture. And so it is here. This article addresses some of the larger concerns revolving about the issue of women serving as pastors. The exegesis of specific texts is a necessary starting point for the discussion, but the issue goes beyond isolated texts. There is a consistent pattern of biblical teaching on the subject. Our approach will be to identify these patterns and deal with the greater issues they raise. This discussion, which is necessarily brief, should be complemented by a serious and detailed exegesis of the relevant texts.

Biblical Texts

While the Bible does not support the practice of women serving as pastors, numerous passages speak clearly and forcibly to the inherent worth and value of women. Women in the New Testament engaged in significant ministry, performing valuable service in sometimes-difficult situations. This is readily seen in the Acts of the Apostles. Both Priscilla and Aquila spoke privately to Apollos at Ephesus (Acts 18:24-26), correcting his incomplete and flawed theology. Further, women clearly played a significant role in the work of the Apostle Paul. In his letter to the Romans, Paul identified sixteen significant helpers in ministry (16:1-16), and at least ten of them were women. Who knows what the health of the church at Philippi would have been were it not for Lydia (Acts 16:13-15), apparently a benefactor to the church, and others such as Euodia and Syntyche (Phil. 4:2-3)? And of course, women made a significant contribution to Jesus' ministry. Luke recalled with appreciation their financial support and company with Him (Luke 8:1-3).

The question at hand is not whether women are of equal value to men, nor is it whether they can minister effectively. It is, rather, the nature of their ministry in the church. More specifically, it is permissible for a woman to serve as senior pastor?

The place to begin in this, as in other biblical questions, is to ask, "What does the Bible say?" Even a cursory reading of the pertinent texts reveals three important observations: 1) there were no known women pastors in New Testament times; 2) none of the instructions regarding church order include instructions for women pastors; and 3) some texts on church order explicitly forbid women to occupy that role. Paul, in 1 Tim. 2:12, states, "I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man" (NIV) . This verse is introduced by a statement that women should learn "in silence," and it is followed by the statement that "she must be silent." The word silence means being possessed by a calmness of spirit and peaceful disposition. It is set as the opposite to "teaching" and "having authority over a man." Paul does not expect that women will not or can not learn or teach (compare with Titus 2:3-5 and 2 Tim. 1:5; 3:14,15). He states that they cannot teach or have authority over men. Thus, they cannot have a pastoral position, or perform the pastoral function, for that puts them in authority over men.

It is logical to conclude, therefore, that the issue would not be raised today if discussion of the parameters for pastoral leadership were confined to the biblical record.

Biblical Contexts

Biblical exegesis requires sensitivity to the context of a passage. When Scripture is taken out of its context, faulty conclusions and blurred perspectives result. Two matters impact this discussion significantly - the issues of literary context and cultural context. Let us first examine literary context. Each biblical writer directed his word to specific issues. The task of the biblical expositor is to determine the precise nature of those issues.

An example of the importance of correct contextual analysis occurs in Galatians 3:28. In explaining the meaning of justification, Paul said that in Christ there is "neither Jew or Gentile, slave or free, male or female." The outstanding social characteristic of Christianity is that ethnic ("Jew nor Greek"), economic ("bond nor free"), and gender ("male nor female") distinctions have no bearing on salvation, nor upon equal standing among all Christians. It is obvious that the context of the statement is its explanation of the impact of justification. This is a soteriological statement: it speaks to the doctrine of salvation. The teaching is that all believers, without regard to social distinctions, have equal access to God through Christ, and, consequently, are to be unified in the Body of Christ.

Near the end of his life, ten to fifteen years after the writing of the Epistle to the Galatians, Paul wrote to both Timothy and Titus, giving them pastoral instructions about how the church is to be organized. Both 1 Timothy and Titus provide clearly for a hierarchical approach to church order in which men rather than women were to occupy that role.

Some have pointed to Galatians 3:28 as justification for women serving as pastors. However, it is a misuse of Scripture to produce ecclesiastical patterns from soteriological passages! While Paul clearly affirms the equality of men and women in salvation, he equally and just as clearly affirms the priority of men in church leadership. There is no conflict. The contextual issue is crucial for an accurate exposition in this, as in all areas. Readers must exercise great care, therefore, to determine the nature of the issue under discussion in order to understand and apply the message relevantly today.

Organizational Patterns

Biblical teaching regarding church order goes hand in hand with its teaching regarding family order. Indeed the instructions for one often interrelate with instructions for the other.

One finds a similar tension in biblical teachings on family order that occurs in the doctrines of salvation and the church. Passages teaching the equality of women, reveal an important principle: in their standing before God and with each other, men and women are equal in several ways. First, they have equal value as persons (Gal. 3:28). Next, men and women have equal responsibility to communicate intimately in marriage relationships. This is seen in God's plan that marriage is to be a companionship of equals (Gen. 2:24). It is never biblically warranted for either the man or the woman to depreciate the social, intellectual, physical, or spiritual companionship of a spouse. Finally, the Bible affirms the equal responsibility of men and women in propagating life (Gen. 1:28).

On the other hand, the Scriptures teach a hierarchy of responsibilities. The wife is to submit to her husband (Eph. 5:22). Some insist the introductory words "submitting yourselves to one another" (Eph. 5:21) somehow tempers the command for wives to submit, but the explicit teaching of the passage is that wives are to submit; husbands are to love. This interpretation is confirmed by the clear parallel passage in Colossians (3:18), and the teaching of Peter (1 Peter 3:1), where submission is specifically commanded of the wife. The Greek term used for submission (hypotasso) suggests a voluntary submission based on a commitment to proper order. It does not imply an organization based on inability or inferiority. Indeed, this term seems to have been chosen by Paul to honor the unique value of the wife. In a beautiful tension, he affirms both value and order, both equality and subordination.

Blended Patterns

The models for family and church interrelate. They do so for two reasons. First, these are the two God-ordained institutions in which we find the spiritual resources for full Christian maturity. Second, these two institutions have unique ability to reveal God to a world blinded by sin. Family and church share the central place in God's economy.

The Scriptures frequently interrelate the family and the church. Paul clearly tied the two together in 1 Corinthians 11:2-16. He addressed a disruption caused by some of the women in the church over hairstyles (often understood as "head covering"). In a carefully reasoned argument, Paul expressed a theological conviction. If a married woman will not proudly wear a symbol of her right relationship to her husband, her familial "head," she forfeits her privileges of praying and prophesying in church fellowships. Her ministry in the church is directly linked to her submission to her husband. Paul's words are forceful. Married women have no right to participate in the church service if they wish to assume the prerogative of family headship and/or if they wish to act as though they were single rather than married. Here proper family order is a prerequisite to a woman's participation in the church.

Paul addressed men similarly in the pastoral epistles. He argued that no man has the privilege of leading the church as bishop (pastor) unless he meets certain qualifications. At least one relates to family order: the pastor must "rule his family well" (1 Tim. 3:4; Tit. 1:6). Again, Paul's conclusion is clear and forceful. If a married man does not relate to his family properly, he forfeits his right to be pastor of the church. As before, proper family order is a prerequisite to pastoral leadership. The Bible intentionally interrelates church and family for both husbands and wives. The God-ordained leadership structure in the church is reflected in the family, and vice versa.

This understanding has implications that bear directly on the question of women pastors. Proper family relationships are a prerequisite to ministry in the church. Proper relationships require the husband to function as the head and the wife to willingly submit to his leadership. In the church, wives, submissive to their husbands, are not to "have authority or be the teacher" over men (1 Timothy 2:12). This precludes a woman serving as pastor, for to do so would be to take the place of headship.

Theological Model

Let us move the discussion to another level. The complementary principles of equality and submission are built into human structures for good reason. These principles tell us about God, for in the Godhead we see both equality and submission!

The equality element derives from God's unity. The Old Testament affirms that there is one God, and He is to be worshiped (Ex. 20:3; Dt.6:4). Yet in both the Old and the New Testaments that unity expresses itself in a consistent plurality. Historically, orthodox Christianity has referred to this plurality as "personalities." We refer to the interrelationships within the Godhead as the doctrine of the Trinity. Each member ("personality") of the Godhead is equal. God the Father is not greater than God the Son or God the Holy Spirit. The same is true of each of the others. God the Son (Jesus) and God the Holy Spirit are not greater than the others. Equality in the Godhead is similar to the equality present among humans. Each shares the same value, the capacity for companionship, and cooperation in specific tasks. The three persons of the Godhead share deity. In that shared deity they find perfect companionship (communication and love). They also share a common mission, that of redemption. Each of the personalities is equal in essence.

Yet, reading the Bible one is confronted by a hierarchy existing among the three. Jesus acknowledged this when He declared in John 20: 21 "As the Father hath sent me, so send I you." The Bible reveals a consistent pattern in its discussion of the tasks God undertakes. There are two primary tasks: creation and redemption. Regarding creation, God the Father planned it. Jesus spoke creation into existence and he maintains it. The Holy Spirit "hovered upon the waters" (Gen. 1:2) to complete creation's process. In redemption the pattern continues. God the Father planned it and He elected to salvation. Jesus accomplished redemption by His death. The Holy Spirit applies the work of Jesus. Thus in the activities of God there is a division of labor and focus - what one writer called economic subordination.

The Godhead provides the unchanging model for the family and the church. There exists in each both essential equality and economic subordination. Equality is based on "who each is," a relational, interpersonal matter. Subordination is based on "what each does," a task oriented, functional matter. Both elements are present and are to be acknowledged in practice. Organizational subordination requires the recognition and appreciation of essential equality. Each is to value the worth of other. Communication and love is to characterize internal relationships, and each person must focus jointly on the task. When this occurs, there will be no jealousy, strife, contention, or claims of superiority or inferiority.

Summary: Should Women Be Pastors?

We have seen that the explicit texts of Scripture forbid women to serve as pastors. The biblical model for family roles supports that stance as well. It is not a matter of inferiority or worth, for all persons are of equal worth in their persons, reflecting the essential equality of the Godhead. It is a matter of function. There is no compelling reason to encourage women as pastors, and there are many reasons not to do so.

[Heleadethme]

No idea of what is going on politically.  But the Baptist church has been exposed for a huge sex abuse scandal recently. 

I dont' believe true shepherds talk down to God's inheritance from pulpits....they are found among the sheep serving and discipling them like Jesus did, and encouraging and teaching them to exercise their spiritual gifts.   We've been "doing church" wrong for a very long time, and need to return to the simplicity of Christ:

Mat 18:20

For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

1Co 14:26

How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying.

And just to note that in scripture being ruled over by women is a JUDGMENT of God.  Headship, leadership belongs to the men, not to women.  However it may be that the Lord will move upon some women in assembly to prophecy a word and that word needs to be tested by the other prophets in the assembly, just the same as when a man gives a prophetic word.  Women can participate in praying during meetings as well, but not lead.  Clearly there are prophetesses in scripture, but not female elders/pastors in leadership roles.  Women have spiritual gifts...but remember that there are divers operations and divers administrations of the same gifts.  Women's gifts are not given in a leadership type of administration.  Eg, I believe it's possible that a woman may have a pastoring gift, to care for sheep, but not in a manner as to usurp authority.  Test this too, but I think women are not generally used by God in a publicly exposed way, other than prophesying.

[Wayne222]

Women are to be silent in the church. Why ? The word of God says so. Yes they are more then able to teach. But God said the man is head . Christ is head of man. God the father head of christ. There are boundaries zGod created . Let's follow christ.

[johnthebaptist]

13 hours ago, dhchristian said:

Hi all, if this is better in the controversial topics, feel free to move it there. There is a big divide occurring in the SBC over  women in the pulpit, but it is more than just that. I will not name names here, but you can look it up if you like, One of the woman is closely associated with President Trump. My Question is what are your thoughts on women in the Pulpit, and what Scripture says about this? I am starting this because I feel this is a political attack that is being orchestrated for political purposes to divide the vote. Do You see this or not?

The point of this post is a preemptive strike against such a move, that when these things come to the forefront they will not surprise you, and you will know how to respond to those who have questions.  

This is the first I've heard of this. I personally think it is only fair to let women preach, if they feel called to do so and live righteous lives. Paul and Peter apparently didn't think so.

Edited November 4, 2019 by johnthebaptist

[Dennis1209]

What timing! At our Baptist Church we have been studying our Church Covenant at Bible study for the past several weeks; for good reason of which I will not go into. Our church was founded in 1824, and no one seemed to know where our Church Covenant came from or originated for sure. I'm a member of this church and though I'd check it out, as I had a few other questions on my mind also. Long story short, I discovered our Church Covenant was from the "New Hampshire Church Covenant" written in 1833, by Dr. J. Newton Brown, and our covenant is a copy word for word.

Anyway one thing lead to another and I've been hearing negative things being banter about and voted on in the Southern Baptist Conventions. Like any other denominational organization we have structure, district associations, etc. A certain percentage of our tithes and offerings go to these associations to support administration costs, missionary fields, etc. But I never see any breakdowns of who gets what and how far the line goes down? At a monthly business meeting I asked the Pastor and congregation how our tithes and offerings were being used we give to these associations. No one seemed to know much? So I started doing a little investigation on my own. I was somewhat shocked of things I was finding out, but shouldn't be surprised with the day and age we're living in.

It's a little complex but, exactly what is a Baptist and what do they believe? In brevity; I had to sort our the different divisions of Baptists, such as the National Baptists and the National Baptist Convention, and so on [different non-Salvation belief's]. To my relief (SBC) it's stated, "each Southern Baptist church is a New Testament Church; each church is independent and autonomous". 

Why am I bringing all this up? I thought the majority of "religious" scandal's and problems in the churches were mostly in the Catholic Church. Come to find out, the SBC has its hands full with sexual harassment and sexual abuse claims and allegations also. Not to mention all the liberal infiltration and introduction of changes to adapt and fit today's standards of equality for all. All this is in addition to what dhchristian is pointing out.

Women, homosexual / lesbian's in church leadership positions [Pastor's, Clergy, Deacons, Elders]. God is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow; 1 Timothy 3: and elsewhere is clear in the qualifications and of the hierarchy of individual, family and church leadership. Satan is constantly at work to divide and conquer Christ's church. We all have our Divinely appointed places, assignments and responsibilities in God's word. Christ is the Head over all, man is head of household, family and the church. As been said, "if there's a problem, take it up with God."

Genesis 2:18 (KJV) And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him. עֵזֶר ʻêzer, ay'-zer from H5826; aid:—help.

[LadyKay]

10 hours ago, Prodigal Son said:

 

"I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet. For Adam was formed first, then Eve. And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner." 1 Timothy 2: 12-14 (NIV)

 

The bible is very clear on this matter.

I am not going to get into this debate again.  But I do wonder something here and without throwing myself into the debate ring I would like to ask something.    I wonder why this verse says "I do not permit".  If this was a rule given  from God. Shouldn't Paul had said "God dose not permit?"  I read this to mean that Paul himself dose not permit women to tech ect ect.  Other wise I would think it would say "God dose not permit."  Well anyway. Like I said. I am not going to get myself into this one again. So that is all I am going to say about this. 

[LadyKay]

1 hour ago, Wayne222 said:

Women are to be silent in the church.

Hmmm.....I wonder how that works?     How would I say "hi" to people? Just wave at them? 

[ravindran]

14 minutes ago, LadyKay said:

I am not going to get into this debate again.  But I do wonder something here and without throwing myself into the debate ring I would like to ask something.    I wonder why this verse says "I do not permit".  If this was a rule given  from God. Shouldn't Paul had said "God dose not permit?"  I read this to mean that Paul himself dose not permit women to tech ect ect.  Other wise I would think it would say "God dose not permit."  Well anyway. Like I said. I am not going to get myself into this one again. So that is all I am going to say about this. 

Just my suggestion and kind feedback. Do not look at any scripture as a view point of author. That defeats the whole belief of Scripture being inspired by Holy Spirit. Then no Scripture is authoritative. Everything becomes relative. This is a dangerous way to look at Scripture.

[ReneeIW]

19 minutes ago, LadyKay said:

I am not going to get into this debate again.  But I do wonder something here and without throwing myself into the debate ring I would like to ask something.    I wonder why this verse says "I do not permit".  If this was a rule given  from God. Shouldn't Paul had said "God dose not permit?"  I read this to mean that Paul himself dose not permit women to tech ect ect.  Other wise I would think it would say "God dose not permit."  Well anyway. Like I said. I am not going to get myself into this one again. So that is all I am going to say about this. 

Many have wondered about this and concluded that it was not a direct commandment from God, but something that came from Paul. 

I’m not going to get into the debate either, but the bottom line  is that women are becoming pastors all across this country and I don’t think that is going to change. 

Some men are desperate to hold onto that verse by Paul in an attempt to maintain unfair power and control over women and children. Power that they often abuse.

I don’t get the hate for women in some churches. No one would be here if a woman had not decided to carry them to term. No church could flourish if women as a whole  decided to stay home and home church, which a lot more families seem to be doing. These old and tired debates about women in the pulpit is just an attempt to hold onto power and control people.

Edited November 4, 2019 by ReneeIW