women in the pulpit

[Sower]

10 minutes ago, missmuffet said:

I wonder what the difference is in a prophetess and a Pastor? Maybe a prophetess is only a teacher. I don't know. 

Not sure, but I guess they have prophesied.

[missmuffet]

4 minutes ago, Abby-Joy said:

Prophetess and teacher are 2 different gifts and callings. 

It looks like a prophetess was a teacher. There are many women on Worthy who teach God's word but they are not a "Pastor" and a head of a Church.

Question: "What is a prophetess? Does the Bible mention any prophetesses?"

Answer: A prophetess is a female prophet. The word prophet comes from the Greek word prophetes, which means “spokesman.” A prophet in the Bible is a person who proclaims God’s Word and therefore speaks for God—a spokesman for God. A prophetess was, therefore, a spokeswoman for God. The faithful prophet or prophetess was one who, regardless of whether or not he or she was listened to, spoke everything God said to speak. There are several prophetesses mentioned in the Bible.

https://www.gotquestions.org/prophetess-Bible.html

Edited November 4, 2019 by missmuffet

[Coliseum]

Something to consider:

"In the Greek, the word for bishop is episkopos and the word for pastor is poimen; both terms refer to the same office, and they both come from masculine nouns that mean to shepherd or to care for. The qualifications for male leadership are found in 1 Timothy 3:1-7 and Titus 1:6-9. The Bible does not outline character traits for female pastors, nor does it use the words episkopos or poimen when describing their role. For those who agree with the position of women pastors, where does the Bible list the character traits needed for this role?

From Genesis 3:16 God ordained a leadership role for the man. However, when men cower back from their leadership responsibilities, women will step in. Men must rise to the call of servant leadership. This type of leadership is not domineering or abusive; it’s kind, gracious, and humble. Pastors are to serve those in church, not lord over them. God’s design is not focused on “better than” or “superior” even though abuse has tarnished it.

Many misunderstand male leadership as God designed it; it’s not a glorified position, it's the position of a servant. A servant is called to protect, lead, and guard the church. We are to serve those God has entrusted to us. If there is a loud noise at home in the dead of night, do we encourage our wives to investigate? I hope not. God has called men to the position of servant leadership and protector."

 

[ravindran]

16 minutes ago, Abby-Joy said:

Jael, in the book of Judges chapter 4, is one example of God using a woman where a man was not available. So there is a Biblical basis for this.

I have heard accounts where women stepped up to pastor and teach where there was no man, while praying for God to send a man. 

I myself gave an example in my previous posts. Deborah. There will be exceptions. I am not debating on that at all. My only point is that exception should not be norm. My comment was to a post on how men pastors fall and cause disruption. I do acknowledge shortfall of man. But that is not a sole reason to change order given by God. Exceptions would always be there and I agree with that

[missmuffet]

9 minutes ago, Abby-Joy said:

That is not how I interpret the paragraph above. Also, we should take the Word for what it says.

___

Ephesians 4:11-15

11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; 12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: 13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: 14 That we [henceforth] be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, [and] cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; 15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, [even] Christ:

___

They are listed as two individually separate callings.

It says a prophetess is a "spokesman" and that is a person who speaks God's word. There are women who teach Sunday school who teach God's word and also women who do Bible studies who teach God's word but they are not a Pastor of a Church. 

[missmuffet]

Just now, Abby-Joy said:

Sorry, not the same. If it were, the Word would list them separately. (Done.) 

Suit yourself.

[Coliseum]

2 minutes ago, Abby-Joy said:

And btw, as a woman who has had many (way more) abusive experiences from men (inside and outside the churches) ...I still would prefer a male pastor...one who is humble, who doesn't cower from the WHOLE TRUTH of the Word, who isn't afraid to stand against the world/beast system ...one who emits His love and compassion, who doesn't domineer or think of himself more highly than he ought. 

Tall order,  I know....

I have such a Pastor whose faithfulness not only to his congregation but to his congregants individually is none like I have ever seen in my experience. Every single one of those attributes you mentioned God has been gracious to give him. But I think generally speaking it is as you say: a "Tall order."

[LadyKay]

I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet. 1 Timothy 2:12

 

I have heard that some men believe that this also applies to women bosses and women running for office. I even heard it said about women voting.  I don't know any personally, but I have heard some men say that they will not work for a women boss because they think this verse forbids women from being a boss over a man.  I would think that this would make it very hard when job hunting. 

[Coliseum]

2 minutes ago, LadyKay said:

I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet. 1 Timothy 2:12

 

I have heard that some men believe that this also applies to women bosses and women running for office. I even heard it said about women voting.  I don't know any personally, but I have heard some men say that they will not work for a women boss because they think this verse forbids women from being a boss over a man.  I would think that this would make it very hard when job hunting. 

May I share two thoughts: the first is that then, women were not educated like men are today. As far as my understanding, they were expected to be compliant, and their responsibilities were at home, though obviously there were exceptions. 

Secondly, men today have grown lazy  and unconcerned, and have given over their responsibilities and authority to women. Women do the shopping, take care of the home, take the kids to school, cook the food, administer discipline, and many now not only work for a living, but make more than their spouses. Many men today have given over their roles to women, and the equation against our culture and society is terribly unbalanced. IMO, this is very sad.

[OneLight]

It amazes me when I read through threads like this one, knowing that a "pastor" is held responsible for the whole flock, one should tremble when considering if they should even be considered with stepping into those shoes.  Knowing that a teacher will be held to a stricter judgement (James 3:1), and a teacher is under a shepherd, how much more responsibility does a shepherd have that they will be held to an even greater judgment?  Romans 12 teaches us not to think of ourselves more highly than we ought, but to be humble, sober minded.  Yet, here is this thread once again, arguing if women should be a shepherd or not.  Why, is it pride that drives this conversation, thinking one is better than the other, for we are all one in Him (Galatians 3:26-29).  Yet, we do not read in scripture "God the Father, Mother, Son and Holy Spirit", but "God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit".  God Himself set up the linage of authority, not man.  If this rattles the feathers of women, I highly suggest they take this up with God, not men.  All this does is divide and cause strife.  Will God use a woman if He cannot find a man to do His will?  To the dishonor and shame of man, I am sure He will.  Again, this cannot be resolved in any debate, but through God alone.

Paul gives the qualification of overseers and elders in 1 Timothy 3, and Peter describes the office of an overseer in 1 Peter 5.  Yet, do teachers not teach and evangelist not evangelize?  Are these two not reaching more of the lost and helping the young become mature more than someone who is responsible for the overseeing of the needs of the flock?  Being an overseer or elder is much more than standing in at a pulpit preaching.  People don't talk about that side much.

Good luck in your debate ...