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BibleGuy

Dt. 30:1-8 as FUTURE prophecy...IMPLICATIONS.

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Hello all...

It appears Dt. 30:1-8 is a YET FUTURE prophecy.    It is NOT yet fulfilled.  So, it will be fulfilled in the future.

But this means that 100% of ALL Torah will again be obeyed (Dt.30:1-8)....in the FUTURE.

I'm not sure all of us Christians have integrated this detail into our eschatology....

Anyway....just wanted to point that out.

blessings....

 

 

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It's definitely a future prophesy, but surely you have heard of the Millennial Kingdom?

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24 minutes ago, wingnut- said:

It's definitely a future prophesy, but surely you have heard of the Millennial Kingdom?

Yes, Jesus will establish His kingdom on earth for 1000 years.

Looks like this will be a TORAH-OBEDIENT kingdom....with Torah going out to all nations (Is.2:3-4;Mic.4:2-3).

And with ISRAEL as, essentially, the capital of the planet (Is.60:12).

And some people evidently have flight-capacity! (Is.60:8)

Interesting stuff....

blessings...

 

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2 minutes ago, BibleGuy said:

Yes, Jesus will establish His kingdom on earth for 1000 years.

Looks like this will be a TORAH-OBEDIENT kingdom....with Torah going out to all nations (Is.2:3-4;Mic.4:2-3).

And with ISRAEL as, essentially, the capital of the planet (Is.60:12).

And some people evidently have flight-capacity! (Is.60:8)

Interesting stuff....

blessings...

 

 

I would say, given His foreknowledge, that it is possible the commandments referred to are a reference to what Jesus said while on earth.  However there are certainly numerous passages that indicate the old customs being restored as well, such as animal sacrifices.  There are also passages that state those nations that do not come to the temple in Jerusalem on a yearly basis will suffer for it, mentioning rain being withheld from their lands, etc.

For the most part people take these passages literally, some consider them symbolic because the idea of returning to animal sacrifice doesn't ring true in light of the sacrifice Jesus made Himself.  I guess we will not know for certain until we get there and see exactly what the Lord has in store for us.  Personally I lean towards just agreeing with what the scriptures state as literal, even if I don't quite understand it.

I do think most people agree with this form of eschatology, the only ones who don't seem to accept the Millennial period are either from the preterist camp, or amillennialists, neither of which is all that popular.

 

God bless

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9 minutes ago, wingnut- said:

 

I would say, given His foreknowledge, that it is possible the commandments referred to are a reference to what Jesus said while on earth.  However there are certainly numerous passages that indicate the old customs being restored as well, such as animal sacrifices.  There are also passages that state those nations that do not come to the temple in Jerusalem on a yearly basis will suffer for it, mentioning rain being withheld from their lands, etc.

For the most part people take these passages literally, some consider them symbolic because the idea of returning to animal sacrifice doesn't ring true in light of the sacrifice Jesus made Himself.  I guess we will not know for certain until we get there and see exactly what the Lord has in store for us.  Personally I lean towards just agreeing with what the scriptures state as literal, even if I don't quite understand it.

I do think most people agree with this form of eschatology, the only ones who don't seem to accept the Millennial period are either from the preterist camp, or amillennialists, neither of which is all that popular.

 

God bless

Agreed.....go LITERAL, unless you have a good reason to not....

Otherwise, there's no limit to non-literal imaginations....

blessings....

 

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We can't deny what the scriptures say.  I have been stuck on this for years and kept putting it into "the too hard basket".  A bad case of cognitive dissonance is what I think it's called...for me at least.

Ezekiel chapter 40 - 46 goes into more detail. 

In the last few months I have really looked into it and realise that Jesus did indeed keep his Word.  Since his death and resurrection the sacrifices have been done away with, and that is all true, but what I didn't realise that it was only until all that was fulfilled - until the first resurrection of the saints. 

A new covenant will be made with Israel entering the millennium.  This is mercy.  A second chance to get right what they failed at on the first time around, and that is obeying the commandments and all that the Lord instructed them.  The rituals are there for them to demonstrate obedience.  Remember, a second chance to go through that course again but this time they will get it right, because knowledge will be given.  It will be easier this time around because the devil will be locked up, and all this will be customary throughout the cities of Jerusalem.  Everyone will know the Law of the Lord, and will obey with love for the mercy they have received.  It will be carried out with gladness.

Except for the fact that the surviving nations have to celebrate the feast of tabernacles, I cannot see any evidence that the nations will have to go through these exact same law and ordinances as Israel.  Israel are chosen again, and made a separate nation.  They will stand out and be different from the rest.  They are going through a thousand years of repentance, and not one of them will be lost.

 Praise the Lord we have learned something new and given a little more insight.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Sister
correcting grammar.
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6 hours ago, BibleGuy said:

And some people evidently have flight-capacity! (Is.60:8)

 

Hi BibleGuy

 Isaiah 60:8   Who are these that fly as a cloud, and as the doves to their windows?

I believe this is speaking about the saints who were in the 1st resurrection.  They will be like the angels, ...spirit.  They are quickened now and they travel fast.  Christ's helpers and ruling with him.  Sent by the spirit where-ever there is a job to be done.

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On 11/6/2019 at 6:47 PM, Sister said:

We can't deny what the scriptures say.  I have been stuck on this for years and kept putting it into "the too hard basket".  A bad case of cognitive dissonance is what I think it's called...for me at least.

Ezekiel chapter 40 - 46 goes into more detail. 

In the last few months I have really looked into it and realise that Jesus did indeed keep his Word.  Since his death and resurrection the sacrifices have been done away with, and that is all true, but what I didn't realise that it was only until all that was fulfilled - until the first resurrection of the saints. 

A new covenant will be made with Israel entering the millennium.  This is mercy.  A second chance to get right what they failed at on the first time around, and that is obeying the commandments and all that the Lord instructed them.  The rituals are there for them to demonstrate obedience.  Remember, a second chance to go through that course again but this time they will get it right, because knowledge will be given.  It will be easier this time around because the devil will be locked up, and all this will be customary throughout the cities of Jerusalem.  Everyone will know the Law of the Lord, and will obey with love for the mercy they have received.  It will be carried out with gladness.

Except for the fact that the surviving nations have to celebrate the feast of tabernacles, I cannot see any evidence that the nations will have to go through these exact same law and ordinances as Israel.  Israel are chosen again, and made a separate nation.  They will stand out and be different from the rest.  They are going through a thousand years of repentance, and not one of them will be lost.

 Praise the Lord we have learned something new and given a little more insight.

 

 

 

 

 

Hi there!

Thought I'd share a few thoughts here.....tagging off of your comments....

You wrote: "Since his death and resurrection the sacrifices have been done away with..."

My response:  Actually, Paul CONDONED a sacrifice-laden vow (Ac.21) to prove he obeyed all Torah.

THOUSANDS of 1st-century Christians were zealous for ALL Torah (Ac.21:20), thus including sacrifices.

Jesus comes to RESTORE sacrifices (Mal.3:4), not terminate them.

As you mentioned, Eze.40-47 guarantees future sacrifices....so they are surely not "done away with".

Dt. 30:1-8, as future prophecy, guarantees 100% obedience to ALL Torah (thus including sacrifices).

Jer. 33 promises sacrifices in conjunction with the future fulfillment of the Davidic Covenant.

Is. 66 promises sacrifices in conjunction with future fulfillment of Sabbath.

Zec. 6 has Jesus rebuilding the temple...and temples have sacrifices.

Some Christians were even animal-sacrificing priests! (Ac.6:7)

The SAME Torah of Moses passes into the New Covenant (Jer.31:33;Heb.8:10;10;16).  So, sacrifices properly CONTINUE in the New Covenant.

All these reasons lead me to disagree with your claim that sacrifices are "done away with".

 

"A new covenant will be made with Israel entering the millennium."

Jesus ALREADY inaugurated that New Covenant in His blood (Lk.22:20). We ARE Israelites, by virtue of our partaking in that New Covenant with Israel....

 

"Except for the fact that the surviving nations have to celebrate the feast of tabernacles, I cannot see any evidence that the nations will have to go through these exact same law and ordinances as Israel.  "

Maybe true....on the other hand, we do have Torah going out to ALL nations in Is.2:3-4 and Mic.4:2-3.

But you're right....the distinction between us Israelites (and the rest of the nations) will be PROFOUND at that time.

Any nation that does not serve us will be destroyed (Is.60:12).

 

"They will stand out and be different from the rest."

Yes....WE will be BLESSED amongst all the nations!

Exciting things to anticipate for our future!

blessings...

 

 

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Ezekiel 20:33 "As I live," says the Lord God, "surely with a mighty hand, with an outstretched arm, and with fury poured out, I will rule over you.

34 I will bring you out from the peoples and gather you out of the countries where you are scattered, with a mighty hand, with an outstretched arm, and with fury poured out.
35 And I will bring you into the wilderness of the peoples, and there I will plead My case with you face to face.
36 Just as I pleaded My case with your fathers in the wilderness of the land of Egypt, so I will plead My case with you," says the Lord God.
37 "I will make you pass under the rod, and I will bring you into the bond of the covenant;
38 I will purge the rebels from among you, and those who transgress against Me; I will bring them out of the country where they dwell, but they shall not enter the land of Israel. Then you will know that I am the Lord.
39 "As for you, O house of Israel," thus says the Lord God: "Go, serve every one of you his idols--and hereafter--if you will not obey me; but profane My holy name no more with your gifts and your idols.
40 For on My holy mountain, on the mountain height of Israel," says the Lord God, "there all the house of Israel, all of them in the land, shall serve Me; there I will accept them, and there I will require your offerings and the firstfruits of your sacrifices, together with all your holy things.
41 I will accept you as a sweet aroma when I bring you out from the peoples and gather you out of the countries where you have been scattered; and I will be hallowed in you before the Gentiles.
42 Then you shall know that I am the Lord, when I bring you into the land of Israel, into the country for which I raised My hand in an oath to give to your fathers.
43 And there you shall remember your ways and all your doings with which you were defiled; and you shall loathe yourselves in your own sight because of all the evils that you have committed.
44 Then you shall know that I am the Lord, when I have dealt with you for My name's sake, not according to your wicked ways nor according to your corrupt doings, O house of Israel," says the Lord God.' "
 
God's covenant with Israel was only for one land, not the whole earth:
 
Deut. 6:1 “Now this is the commandment, and these are the statutes and judgments which the LORD your God has commanded to teach you, that you may observe them in the land which you are crossing over to possess... (Also 4:5, 40; 5:31; 12:1.)
 
This was an everlasting covenant. Christ's covenant with the Church, a "New Covenant" (Luke 22:20, 2 Cor. 11:25 etc.), is also an everlasting covenant. The latter covenant is greater than the former, with greater rewards; but those rewards can only be attained during the Age of Grace. After the Second Coming, there will be two gatherings:
those who have attained grace in Christ "to [heavenly] Mount Zion and to a city of the living God, heavenly Jerusalem" (Heb. 12:22);
and those who can only rely upon works of the Mosaic Law to earthly Jerusalem and its land.
 
Because, after the Lord appears "and every eye sees Him" (Rev. 1:7), there is no more place for grace by faith, only obedience by works.

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On 11/6/2019 at 6:57 PM, Sister said:

Hi BibleGuy

 Isaiah 60:8   Who are these that fly as a cloud, and as the doves to their windows?

I believe this is speaking about the saints who were in the 1st resurrection.  They will be like the angels, ...spirit.  They are quickened now and they travel fast.  Christ's helpers and ruling with him.  Sent by the spirit where-ever there is a job to be done.

Maybe right....although resurrection bodies are evidently very PHYSICAL (not merely "spirit")....e.g., Jn.20:27....and we will be LIKE him physically, evidently (1Jn.3:2).

 

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