Should Christians Obey Torah?

[Ruth Also]

8 minutes ago, Jayne said:

My concerns are that for people who say that Christians are bound by laws for ancient Israel is that so many of those laws would get you into trouble today if obeyed them explicitly and they serve no purpose for the Christian.

Imagine someone today burning their daughter to death just because she became pregnant out of wedlock.  Or killing their young adult son by throwing rocks at his head if he is recalcitrant.  They would go to jail and deservedly so.  There was a purpose for such harshness at that time.  God was creating a nation through which Jesus Christ would come.  They had to be a pure and holy nation.  Despite the law and God's guiding them - they were an unholy people much of the time.

Wearing clothes made of only one fabric?  That's just not feasible today.  Certain blends of fabrics make for sturdier clothing.  Besides, the purpose of that law and the law of singular crops in a field was to teach separatism.  

Doing these things, killing our daughters when promiscuous.  Killing our sons when rebellious.  Grace does not permit that.

I love the Old Testament and have taught it more than once.  The current group I am studying with is about 2/3's of the way finished.  We are very excited.

To study the laws, and Christians should study the entire Bible including the laws, begats, and the repetitious nature of it,  is to find that here's richness untold in the Old Testament, but not in following all of the laws.

Jesus said to obey his laws.  He gave three of them.

1.  Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, and mind.

2. Love your neighbor as yourself.

3.  Love each other as he [Christ] has loved us.

That takes care of it all.

 

 

I hear you, Jayne.  It's a hard read in places.  Our hearts have been so hard.  But it was the same Eternal and only God who lovingly gave those stern rules.  Jesus followed that law of love when asked about the woman caught in the very act of adultery, showing us how it was intended.  (I've always wondered why they let the man go free and only brought the woman, but I've also wondered if that detail of the story speaks volumes.)  

[Blood Bought 1953]

 

“ All Those That wish to be under the Law are also under the CURSE of the Law.” If you break just  “ one” Law, you have broken them all.....have you trimmed your beard lately? Have you killed any of your children for being disrespectful ?  For the love of Pete! Give it up already! You don’t keep the Law and you CANT keep the Law.It was given to drive you to your knees, to show you that you were a sinner that needed Savior.....The reaction to seeing the utter hopelessness Of truly keeping the Law should elicit two reactions—- “ woe is me” and “ God , have mercy on me a sinner” . The Law is there to “ shut the mouth” of all who try and fail to keep it.If you fail to shut up about the Law as a means of Salvation......you have missed the entire point of it and you are as lost as lost can be.....Obey the Law as best you can .....You will be blessed for that wise endeavor— you won’t be saved,however.Obey the Gospel Of 1cor15:2-4 and rest in it if you seek Salvation....that is the   Plan Of God, this side of the Cross.....in this splendid Age Of Grace.

[Blood Bought 1953]

18 minutes ago, Jayne said:

My concerns are that for people who say that Christians are bound by laws for ancient Israel is that so many of those laws would get you into trouble today if obeyed them explicitly and they serve no purpose for the Christian.

Imagine someone today burning their daughter to death just because she became pregnant out of wedlock.  Or killing their young adult son by throwing rocks at his head if he is recalcitrant.  They would go to jail and deservedly so.  There was a purpose for such harshness at that time.  God was creating a nation through which Jesus Christ would come.  They had to be a pure and holy nation.  Despite the law and God's guiding them - they were an unholy people much of the time.

Wearing clothes made of only one fabric?  That's just not feasible today.  Certain blends of fabrics make for sturdier clothing.  Besides, the purpose of that law and the law of singular crops in a field was to teach separatism.  

Doing these things, killing our daughters when promiscuous.  Killing our sons when rebellious.  Grace does not permit that.

I love the Old Testament and have taught it more than once.  The current group I am studying with is about 2/3's of the way finished.  We are very excited.

To study the laws, and Christians should study the entire Bible including the laws, begats, and the repetitious nature of it,  is to find that here's richness untold in the Old Testament, but not in following all of the laws.

Jesus said to obey his laws.  He gave three of them.

1.  Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, and mind.

2. Love your neighbor as yourself.

3.  Love each other as he [Christ] has loved us.

That takes care of it all.

 

 

 

Great post.....please allow me to make that list of Laws even smaller—-1john3:33–“ And this is His commandment , that we should BELIEVE on the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and LOVE one another”. 613  commandments given by Moses to be kept perfectly 24/7 or Two commands given by Jesus......take your pick and remember your Eternal Destiny is at stake.....

[Wayne222]

8 hours ago, BibleGuy said:

Hello all....I know we have different opinions among us....but I'd like to share my point of view, if that's ok....if I'm wrong, please correct me.

Or, maybe we should chat about this in ongoing detail in a "soapbox" discussion?

Anyway, here's my thesis:  CHRISTIANS SHOULD GROW IN FAITHFUL OBEDIENCE TO OBSERVABLE TORAH PORTIONS

Here's a brief summary of my supporting evidence:

1. God commands Torah (Dt.1:3;5:27-33).  We should obey God.

2. Jesus requires all Torah (Mt.4:4;5:19-20;22:37;23:2-3,23).  We should obey Jesus.

3. The Spirit testifies we should obey Torah (Heb.10:15-16;Eze.36:27;Is.59:20-21).  We should walk in the Spirit.

4. Moses requires Torah (just read Exodus 20 through the rest of Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy) for Israel.

5. The prophets (e.g., Isaiah, Ezekiel, Jeremiah, etc.) require Torah.  We should obey the prophets.

6. The Psalms require Torah (e.g., Ps. 1;19;119;etc.)  We should obey the Psalms.

7. The Proverbs require Torah (e.g., Pr. 28:4,7,9).  We should obey the Proverbs.

8. Paul requires Torah (2Ti.3:16;1Cor.7:19).

9. John requires Torah (1Jn.2:3;5:3).

10. Stephen requires Torah (Ac.6:10-15).

11. Peter requires Torah (citing Lev. 11 at 1Pe.1:16)

12. Hebrews requires Torah (Heb.8:10;10:16).

13. Revelation confirms Torah is properly OBEYED (Rev.12:17;14:12).

14. Torah-disobedience is BAD (Mt.5:19-20;7:21-23;13:41-42).

15. Torah is good (Rom.7:12).  We should be good.

16. Torah is holy (Rom.7:12).  We should be holy.

17. Torah is righteous (Rom.7:12).  We should do righteousness.

18. Torah is spiritual (Rom.7:14).  We should be spiritual.

19. Torah defines sin (Rom.3:20;7:7;1Jn.3:4;Is.42:20).  We should not sin, so we should OBEY Torah.

20. The New Covenant is given as Torah (Jer.31:33;Heb.8:10;10:16).

21. The CHURCH is ISRAEL (Ac.7:38;Dt. 4:10), so Christians are ISRAELITES (Jer.31:31;Heb.8:8;Eph.2:12;Rom.9:24-26;11), and Israelites obey TORAH (Mal.4:4;Jer.31:31-33;Heb.8:8-10).

22. We will inherit the land promised to us (Mt.5:5;Gal.3:29) in conjunction with 100% obedience to ALL Torah (Dt.30:1-8).

23. Objections to my thesis do not provide a better explanation of all this available evidence.

 

Ok...that's good enough to get started....

Let's study together and share what we've learned!

blessings in Christ....

 

We should not obey Torah. We are to take up our cross and follow jesus. This is not torah but newness of life in christ. Why do you want to put others under the law ? The Apostles said in acts we gave no commandment to keep the law of Moses. But only four commandments not to eat blood. Not to comit sexual sin. Not to eat strangle meat. And things polluted by idols. They said why are you testing God by putting a yoke on the neck of the  disciples. We should learn from this.

[Wayne222]

41 minutes ago, Blood Bought 1953 said:

 

Great post.....please allow me to make that list of Laws even smaller—-1john3:33–“ And this is His commandment , that we should BELIEVE on the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and LOVE one another”. 613  commandments given by Moses to be kept perfectly 24/7 or Two commands given by Jesus......take your pick and remember your Eternal Destiny is at stake.....

If we are justified by the blood jesus gave fir sin. We are safe. 

[Coliseum]

Oh, the law! Imagine you and your friend go mountain climbing. There is a law at work---something unbreakable, something that under the same conditions always is maintained---in this case, the Law of Gravity. No matter how fast you climb the mountain, no matter how far you are ahead of your partner, no matter when you started climbing it---that same Law was always at work, exerting its force upon both of you. You cannot change it. Take off all the weight you carry to lighten the load, and the Law is still right there with you. You cannot overcome it. The Law of Gravity does not care whether you understand it or believe it; it has you always under its thumb.

Sin too is a law. It cannot be overcome by us. Its wage is death. A wage is something you earn, and we have been the greatest employee working for the law of sin. A man not born again cannot escape the death-grip of the Law; it is binding and has you bound---tied up. Paul understood it, but not at first. He tried and tried and tried to overcome sin by an act of his will; and for awhile, he succeeded, but then, over and over again, he fell back into sin. Like yearly resolutions, the law of sin was too powerful. Romans 7 is all about Paul trying and trying and failing. He realized, like the Law of Gravity, sin too is a law---the Law of sin---the unbreakable law of the flesh. Paul discovered that no amount of self-will could overcome this law of sin. If you are trapped in Romans 7, trying to overcome your sin by the will, you will never arrive at Romans 8, which says, "There is now then no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus. For the law of the Spirit of life has freed me in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and of death." We see that the Spirit of life is also a law---unbreakable in Christ, and it frees us from the law of sin. Paul saw it; his eyes were at last opened when he could only sigh and say, "Wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from the body of this death?" He realized that it was impossible for him to prevail over sin by his will.

Will we sigh too, or hang on with our dead "life" to the law of sin?

[Wayne222]

Jesus fulfill the law. We are justified by his blood. You guys want to put a yoke on the neck of the believers.  Your taking out of context those  verses. Before the cross you had to follow torah. After the cross we live by the spirit.

[Wayne222]

2 minutes ago, Tampered With said:

Again: the Bible is not just about Salvation but contains "all of God's plan for the universe" complete through the New earth, New Heaven, and New Jerusalem descends.

If we are justified we will enter the new earth and new heaven. You are mixing law and grace. Then if we have to follow the law to be justified why did christ die. By no works of the law can anyone be justified. 

[Blood Bought 1953]

Paul said we finish this Christian Walk the way we started it......Faith. One can throw the Torah away if it has done its job by leading you to the Savior.Who needs a collection of rules when we are “ New Creations” with “New Hearts”If the Torah and the 613 Commandments were so great why did God feel the need to replace that “ weak” Covenant with a new and better one—- one that actually has the Power to save a soul as opposed to a system that can only condemn?

[Blood Bought 1953]

8 minutes ago, Tampered With said:

Come on Blood Bought, I would have thought you of all people would have read and understood what I have said. Repeatedly I have said what I am speaking about is NOT RELATED TO SALVATION and yet no one seems to be hearing that! WHY? Please re-read my posts!!!

 

I think I understood where you were going......You made it clear that you were talking about the things to do AFTER Salvation and how we we were to proceed forward from that point forward ...... I was trying to say that we finish the way we started —- Faith. “ Faith to Faith” as Paul said..... “ The RIGHTEOUS shall LIVE by FAITH”. Not by going back to the Law.....not abiding by the Torah.....not by being good little boys and girls .....Our part of the deal until we make it Home is to practice Faith— God will see to the other stuff . I hope we are on the same page, sometimes I am dumber than a rock.Regardless , look at all the good Grace propaganda I am getting out there for the Newbies and lurkers! That is the only reason I post at Worthy.