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Book of Revelation......A fresh look


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On 12/18/2019 at 1:23 AM, Revelation Man said:

All of the Seals, Trumps and Vials are Gods Wrath. The 7th Trump by the way is the 3rd Woe, which means the 3rd Woe is all 7 Vials. Rev. 8:13 tells us the Last Three Trumps are the THREE WOES, it says that explicitly. All 7 of the Seals are opened on the same day {the 1260 event of Dan. 12:7}. People think wrongly on this, like I did until a couple of months ago, its not OPEN A SEAL, wait for it to come to pass, then OPEN ANOTHER SEAL, its Open a Seal and tell that coming 42 month story about the Beasts CONQUERING......Minutes later {maybe seconds later} OPEN ANOTHER SEAL, and tell the coming 42 month story about the Beasts Wars or the taking away of the Peace, minutes later another Seal is opened and we get the News of the coming Beasts Famine that covers 42 months, then we get the Fourth Seals News of the coming Deaths/Sickness over a 42 month period of time. Seconds or Minutes later we get the coming 42 months of his MARTYRS. Then seconds later we get the Famous 6th Seal being opened, which ANNOUNCES Gods Wrath is at hand, which INCLUDES the coming 42 Months of tyranny the Anti-Christ Beast is going to bring forth over the next 42 months !! Then the 7th Seal is God allowing the Trumps to go forth. 

So ALL the Seals are the Lambs Wrath !! As are the Trumps, as are the Vials. The 5th Trump is the 1st Woe, the 6th Trump is the 2nd Woe and the 7th Trump is the 3rd Woe which is ALL 7 Vials. 

All of the Seal, Trumpet sand Vials are in order. In them we get the 42 month reign of the Beast over a 1260 day period, ending with the 7th Vial {a part of the 3rd Woe} where Jesus shows up. 

Right. Except for:

And when I saw the Lamb open the sixth seal, there was a great earthquake, and the sun became black like sackcloth of goat hair, and the whole moon turned blood red, and the stars of the sky fell to the earth like unripe figs dropping from a tree shaken by a great wind. The sky receded like a scroll being rolled up, and every mountain and island was moved from its place.

Then the kings of the earth, the nobles, the commanders, the rich, the mighty, and every slave and free man, hid in the caves and among the rocks of the mountains. And they said to the mountains and the rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of the One seated on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb. For the great day of Their wrath has come, and who is able to withstand it?”

And so wrath does not begin until the 6th seal is opened, the cosmic signs occur, the great earthquake levels the mountains and sinks the islands, and everyone hides and calls for the rocks to fall on them and bury them. It's not possible for any previous seal to be considered wrath as Rev 6 contradicts that notion.

This is the same event as depicted in Matt 24; "

Immediately after the tribulation of those days: ‘The sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.’ At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and all the tribes of the earth will mourn. 

So no, the entire plan is not all the wrath of God. That's a pretrib idea to justify the gathering happening before the 70th week begins, and it has no biblical support.

In Matt 24 Jesus return is after the A of D; said return ushering in 'their wrath' at the 6th seal therefore placing the beginning of wrath well after the A of D. Also since we are gathered at the last trump, as Paul clearly states, and there is only one 'last trump' in the whole of scripture, and we are only gathered at the return of Jesus as stated in Matt 24, and Matt 24 and Rev 6 show us the same cosmic event, the 7th trump sounds in conjunction with the 6th seal. While the groups of 7's occur in order, the seals 1-6 and trumps 1-7 are concurrent with the vials following from the 7th seal.

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On 12/19/2019 at 4:05 AM, Diaste said:

And so wrath does not begin until the 6th seal is opened, the cosmic signs occur, the great earthquake levels the mountains and sinks the islands, and everyone hides and calls for the rocks to fall on them and bury them. It's not possible for any previous seal to be considered wrath as Rev 6 contradicts that notion.

This is the same event as depicted in Matt 24; "

Matt. 24:15 is the AoD {1290 event} and the AoD happens 30 days before the 1260 DOTL event. So Matt. 24:1-14 has nothing to do with the 70th week, its about the Church Age. People pull that out, but my exegesis on Matt. 24 shows it has nothing to do with the 70th week until we get to verse 15.

Did you not see where I say each Seal is opened within minutes if not seconds of each other ? That's the point, all of the Seals are opened on ONE DAY, day 1261, leaving the Beast 1260 days to rule, thus all 5 of the Seals have to do with the Beasts 1260 day rule. The 6th Seal is just announcing God's Wrath has arrived. Well, the Seals have been opened, the Wrath of the Anti-Christ is LOOSED, hes on the way that very day to Conquer Jerusalem and the MANY Nations in the Mediterranean Sea Region. But they all happen within minutes of each other. Satan is the Stars cast out of heaven here like untimely figs,I have no doubt, thus he is said to chase the Woman {Israel} for 1260 days also. And the Jews that flee Judea need protecting for 1260 days. So the Wrath is ALL the Seals, Trumps and Vials. You are looking at it like the First Seals are opened  BEFORE therefore they must come to pass like WAY BEFORE the 6th Seal and the Trumps, that's just not true, even though I just understood this recently myself.

ALL the Seals are basically opened at the same time, on the same day. If I pass out 7 tickets to a basketball game and Pedro goes in first and Ted goes in last but all 7 people were together, they all got to see the whole game right ? Its not like Pedro goes in, then the 2nd guy has to go in 15 minutes later and Ted got to go in with 10 minutes left in the game. That's how we have been trained to look at the Seals as LINEAR, but they aren't, the Four Horses all START at the EXACT SAME TIME even though you have them opened at different times, its just Prose, the passage is saying this basically:

Jesus allows the Anti-Christ to go Forth and become THE BEAST by Conquering, Waring, which brings Famine, Sickness and Death over a 42 month period of time. God just put it in beautiful prose AND in a sorta parable where the world hearing, will not hear and seeing will not understand. Then the 6th Seal is opened, the 42 Months of the Anti-Christs reign is STILL TO COME...........The Wrath of God thus includes the coming 42 month reign of the Anti-Christ. Its His Judgment on this evil world, God gives them the Evil Tyrant they want as King, just like he gave Israel a King they wanted, against His desires. 

All the Seals are opened at the SAME TIME basically. That's the point, you are looking at them as having to be opened, then the Prophecy must come to pass, then the 2nd Seal is opened etc. etc. But that is not the way they will be brought forth, they will be opened, then they will all come to pass over a 42 month period. If that makes sense.

On 12/19/2019 at 4:05 AM, Diaste said:

Immediately after the tribulation of those days: ‘The sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.’ At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and all the tribes of the earth will mourn. 

So no, the entire plan is not all the wrath of God. That's a pretrib idea to justify the gathering happening before the 70th week begins, and it has no biblical support.

In Matt 24 Jesus return is after the A of D; said return ushering in 'their wrath' at the 6th seal therefore placing the beginning of wrath well after the A of D. Also since we are gathered at the last trump, as Paul clearly states, and there is only one 'last trump' in the whole of scripture, and we are only gathered at the return of Jesus as stated in Matt 24, and Matt 24 and Rev 6 show us the same cosmic event, the 7th trump sounds in conjunction with the 6th seal. While the groups of 7's occur in order, the seals 1-6 and trumps 1-7 are concurrent with the vials following from the 7th seal.

The verse you cite is speaking about the Second Coming which happens IMMEDIATELY AFTER the Tribulation which lasts 42 Months. 

Its like someone saying IMMEDIATELY AFTER Summer it will leave for Aspen. Well when do you think this would be ? When Summer first begins, or when it ends ? He says IMMEDIATELY AFTER the Tribulation of those days......THEN he describes what that means, what Tribulation hes speaking of, he inserts some of the signs that are a part of the 42 month tribulation period, like the sun going dark, stars falling, powers of heaven shaking, the moon not giving its light..............THEN he says the Son of Man {Jesus} will Return from Heaven. 

Leave out the descriptor portion of the verse and you get this..........Immediately after the Tribulation I will appear in the Skies for all to see, and the world will mourn at my appearing. EVERYTHING in the middle is just describing what the Tribulation period entails, or some signs as per what the tribulation period looks like. Its very important for us to understand these old ways of writing. We can see the parenthesis in the verse. 

When Jesus returns the only Wrath left will be the 7th Vial. 

 

Edited by Revelation Man
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15 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

Did you not see where I say each Seal is opened within minutes if not seconds of each other ? That's the point, all pf the Seals are opened on ONE DAY, day 1261, leaving the Beast 1260 days to rule, thus all 5 of the Seals have to do with the Beasts 1260 day rule. The 6th Seal is just announcing God's Wrath has arrived. Well, the Seals have been opened, the Wrath of the Anti-Christ is LOOSED, hes on the way that very day to Conquer Jerusalem and the MANY Nations in the Mediterranean Sea Region. But they all happen within minutes of each other. Satan is the Stars cast out of heaven here like untimely figs,I have no doubt, thus he is said to chase the Woman {Israel} for 1260 days also. And the Jews that flee Judea need protecting for 1260 days. So the Wrath is ALL the Seals, Trumps and Vials. You are looking at it like the First Seals are opened  BEFORE therefore they must come to pass like WAY BEFORE the 6th Seal and the Trumps, thats just not true, even though I just understood this recently myself.

Even if the seals are opened at the same moment or in rapid succession, the events depicted by the scroll will happen in their time and in the predetermined order. You and I do not know the timing of any of the events as there isn't much to go on other than it's likely they follow one another consecutively, and we can see duration in some of the events. But when the event commences is not determined by evidence in scripture. I suppose your speculation is as good as anyone's. 

I don't think I'm looking at when any seal event must come to pass in relation to the opening of the seal. My position on that is that seals are opened and the event can take place immediately, or there can be a time gap before fulfillment, with varying lengths of duration and an eventual end to the condition unleashed.

I think it's essential to differentiate between the rise of the beast and the time of his power. They are not the same. The beast can rise at some early stage, even be a major player in regional politics, but is given power and revealed at a later point. I see scripture making this case. The beast is on the scene well before the A of D and is only revealed at the midpoint and granted full authority to continue 42 months.

However, since at no time is wrath mentioned until, "Then the kings of the earth, the nobles, the commanders, the rich, the mighty, and every slave and free man, hid in the caves and among the rocks of the mountains. 16And they said to the mountains and the rocks, “Fall on us and hide usc from the face of the One seated on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb. 17For the great day of Theird wrath has come, and who is able to withstand it?”"

The wrath in question certainly isn't happening at the onset of the last week.

15 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

All the Seals are opened at the SAME TIME basically. That's the point, you are looking at them is having to be opened, then the Prophecy must come to pass, then the 2nd Seal is opened etc. etc. But that is not the way they will be brought forth, they will be opened, then they will all come to pass over a 42 month period. If that makes sense.

Except for that's not what I'm saying. It doesn't matter exactly when any of it comes to pass. What is written shows the 7th trump and the 6th seal occur in conjunction. How it plays out before that is not the point. The Sevens are consecutive for order, but that does not preclude concurrence in the Seals and Trumps, in fact the Seals and Trumps are indeed concurrent as a whole. The Bowls are at the very end after the gathering, the return of Jesus, and are the wrath of God and the Lamb. 

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5 hours ago, Diaste said:

Even if the seals are opened at the same moment or in rapid succession, the events depicted by the scroll will happen in their time and in the predetermined order. You and I do not know the timing of any of the events as there isn't much to go on other than it's likely they follow one another consecutively, and we can see duration in some of the events. But when the event commences is not determined by evidence in scripture. I suppose your speculation is as good as anyone's. 

I don't think I'm looking at when any seal event must come to pass in relation to the opening of the seal. My position on that is that seals are opened and the event can take place immediately, or there can be a time gap before fulfillment, with varying lengths of duration and an eventual end to the condition unleashed.

I think it's essential to differentiate between the rise of the beast and the time of his power. They are not the same. The beast can rise at some early stage, even be a major player in regional politics, but is given power and revealed at a later point. I see scripture making this case. The beast is on the scene well before the A of D and is only revealed at the midpoint and granted full authority to continue 42 months.

However, since at no time is wrath mentioned until, "Then the kings of the earth, the nobles, the commanders, the rich, the mighty, and every slave and free man, hid in the caves and among the rocks of the mountains. 16And they said to the mountains and the rocks, “Fall on us and hide usc from the face of the One seated on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb. 17For the great day of Theird wrath has come, and who is able to withstand it?”"

The wrath in question certainly isn't happening at the onset of the last week.

I agree, there is no Wrath until the Midway Point. That is my whole point of Emphasis, all the Seals are opened on day 1261 out of 2520 days of the 70th week. Jesus opens seal one and says GO FORTH CONQUERING {for 42 months} to the Anti-Christ who becomes the Beast by Conquering. He opens Seal number 2 and says TAKE PEACE from the earth/bring wars {for 42 months}. Jesus seconds later opens the 3rd Seal and says HE BRINGS FAMINE {42 Months}, and Jesus says GO FORTH Killing and causing Sickness {42 months}. Then the 5th Seal is just basically a Witness to his Martyrs over 42 months, and the 6th Seal ANNOUNCES God's Wrath is at hand. 

My point is, all 6 of these can be opened in minutes, and the Anti-Christ Conquering Jerusalem can happen after all 6 have been opened on the SAME DAY. So the Wrath doesn't have to be ANNOUNCED before the Beast Conquers Jerusalem, its just Jesus announcing its on the way. 

The Seals are forward looking announcements in collective mode so to speak. The Trumps and Vials are in a Linear mode, as they are announced, they must come to pass in order. So the Wrath happens on day 1261, leaving 1260 days of Wrath as per the DOTL.

 

6 hours ago, Diaste said:

Except for that's not what I'm saying. It doesn't matter exactly when any of it comes to pass. What is written shows the 7th trump and the 6th seal occur in conjunction. How it plays out before that is not the point. The Sevens are consecutive for order, but that does not preclude concurrence in the Seals and Trumps, in fact the Seals and Trumps are indeed concurrent as a whole. The Bowls are at the very end after the gathering, the return of Jesus, and are the wrath of God and the Lamb. 

The earthquakes are all different brother, they are not the same. Look at all three Earthquakes, that is why the 6th Seal, the 6th Trump and the 7th Vial can't be the same event. 

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