John's 7 visions and triangulating with other scriptures

[iamlamad]

4 hours ago, dhchristian said:

The Fall Feasts, and the Birth Pangs, and Conception.

It is said that the second coming of Christ will fulfill the fall feasts. These fall feasts begin a month before Rosh Hashanah, On Elul 1 which marks the beginning of the 40 days of Teshuvah (Repentance) This forty days is divided into the 30 days of Elul, and the 10 days of Awe, leading up to the Day of atonement, which is then followed by the feast of tabernacles beginning on the full moon of Tishri. The simple outline of these feast days is as follows: A time of sorrows followed by a shorter time of Great sorrow, followed by a season of Joy that lasts Eight days. This simple outline is the same one used by Jesus on the Mount of Olives When he explained the end of the Age to the Disciples. Simply Put Birth pangs and tribulation followed by Great tribulation, followed by The joy of His Return. The following link has some charts on these Fall Holy Days so that you can visualize this. https://hebrew4christians.com/Holidays/Fall_Holidays/Sukkot/sukkot.html

As  shadow of things to come, the Holy Days of the Torah will have their fulfillment in end times. Much Like Christ Died on Passover was raised on the firstfruits, He is the unleavened bread, and the Holy Ghost came upon the believers at Pentecost, So too will these Feasts be fulfilled in that Order. Any Timeline that negates this ordering is likely in error. 

This then gives us a second point of navigation in developing a timeline for the end times, That follows exactly the Order as given by Jesus on the mount of Olives. Of course there will be naysayers who say this only applies to Israel, so this is to address this claim. Paul, In Romans, an Epistle addressed to gentile believers predominantly living in Rome, Writes about this Birthing process. He writes: For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God. For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope, Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now. And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body. (Rom. 8:18-23)

Thus Paul Himself confirms this time of Labor pains that all believers are in, and a coming time of travail, followed by the redemption of our bodies. He also confirms this in 2 Thess. 2 stating that the redemption of our bodies and our gathering to be with him will come after the Man of Sin declares himself God, and the Falling away occurs, then and only then will Christ return. At which time he will consume the Beast with the breath of his mouth and the brightness of His coming Meaning the beast rules before Christ comes. He also acknowledges the tribulation of these days compared with the restraint being removed on the Mystery of Iniquity which foretells of the great tribulation. 

So many people in the prophecy community have learned their pet doctrines that they cannot let go of, things such as differentiating between the saints and the tribulation saints, or The Pre-trib Rapture, or the Mortal wound that they cannot see the simple structure of end time events unfolding as a representation of child birth, Complete with birth pangs, giving birth, and the Joy that follows this time of Great tribulation. I Have given you here Two witnesses of this chronology, Both prophetic, One from the Old testament and one from the new. The time of Great tribulation will be a time of great testing, and many in the church will fall away, But if you remember that Great Joy follows that time, then You will endure... The endurance of the saints dictates this. As I have written before here, the restoration of Jerusalem is dependent on the fulness of the gentiles.... This should make a whole lot more sense now in relation to the full term of the pregnancy.

I Am going to stop here for now, as the naysayers are out again, and they do not have the ears to hear what Spirit has shown me.

God Bless.

Wow! You have it all laid out. Who am I do disagree with what the Spirit has shown you?  

Oh well. When the day comes that we will know as we are now known, then we will see. I really hope for your sake that your theory survives that day. 

[iamlamad]

1 hour ago, dhchristian said:

By the way again, try to find even one word that portrays any kind of evil on the first seal. I have not found even one. Already did above Went out to conquer (Usurp) Conquer = nikaō, From which we get Nicolaitans, Who Jesus Hates. But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate. (Rev. 2:6) Notice this written to the first church of the seven. 

Sorry, but again you miss it big time. Do you ever admit a mistake?

nikaō Verb

overcome (24x), conquer (2x), prevail (1x), get the victory (1x)

Jhn 16:33  These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome G3528 the world.

1Jo 2:13  I write unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I write unto you, young men, because ye have overcome G3528 the wicked one. I write unto you, little children, because ye have known the Father.

1Jo 4:4  Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome G3528 them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

1Jo 5:4  For whatsoever is born of God overcometh G3528 the world: and this is the victory that overcometh G3528 the world, even our faith.
 
Rev 2:7   He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh G3528 will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God

Rev 5:5  And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed G3528 to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.

Notice that in ever verse this word is used, it is uses as a GOOD thing; something we are commanded to do.  It has nothing to do with anything false.  On the other hand, 

Nicolaitans comes from the Greek word:

Nikolaïtēs Noun
Nicolaitans = "destruction of people"

a sect mentioned in Rev. 2:6,15, who were charged with holding the error of Balaam, casting a stumbling block before the church of God by upholding the liberty of eating things sacrificed to idols as well as committing fornication

Root words:
Nikolaos 

Nicolaus, a heretic:—Nicolaus

Root words:
nikos meaning Victory
Laodikeus meaning a Laodicean, an inhabitant of Laodicea

What does all this mean? It means, whatever the white horse and rider are doing, it is a GOOD thing: it is the church, being victorious over (overcoming) the principalities and powers as they spread the gospel. 

Ellicot's Commentary:

 It is the symbol of Christian victory. It was thus their hopes saw Christ: though ascended He went forth in spiritual power conquering. 

Matthew Henry's Commentary:

 A rider on a white horse. By the going forth of this white horse, a time of peace, or the early progress of the Christian religion, seems to be intended; its going forth in purity, at the time when its heavenly Founder sent his apostles to teach all nations, adding, Lo! I am with you alway, even to the end of the world. The Divine religion goes out crowned, having the Divine favour resting upon it, armed spiritually against its foes, and destined to be victorious in the end.

JFB Commentary:

crown—Greek, "stephanos," the garland or wreath of a conqueror, which is also implied by His white horse, white being the emblem of victory.

and to conquer—that is, so as to gain a lasting victory.

Matthew Poole's Commentary

Some, by this white horse, understand the gospel; others, the Roman empire. And by him that sat thereon with a bow, some understand Christ going forth with power to convert the nations; others (and in my opinion more probably) the Roman emperors, armed with power, and having the imperial crown, carrying all before them. 

Gill's Commentary

And I saw, and behold a white horse,.... Representing the ministration of the Gospel in the times of the apostles, which were just now finishing, John being the last of them, who saw this vision; and the "horse" being a swift, majestic, and warlike creature, and fearless of opposition and war, may design the swift progress of the Gospel in the world, the majesty, power, and authority with which it came, and opposition it met with, and which was bore down before it; and its "white" colour may denote the purity of Gospel truths, the peace it proclaims, the joy brings, and the triumph that attends it, on account of victories obtained by it, and which is afterwards suggested: white horses were used in triumphs, in token of victory

and he that sat on him had a bow; with arrows; the bow is the word of the Gospel, and the arrows the doctrines of it;

and a crown was given unto him; by God the Father; expressive of Christ's regal power and authority, of his honour and dignity, and of his victories and conquests:

and he went forth, conquering and to conquer; in the ministration of the Gospel, which went forth, as did all the first ministers of it, from Jerusalem, to the several parts of the world; 

Meyer's Commentary

John saw “a white horse, and he that sat on it had a bow; and a crown was given unto him, and he went forth conquering and to conquer.” The entire form is that of a warrior, and that, too, of one victorious, and triumphing in the certainty of victory.

Just saying: the commentaries seem decidedly on my side of this.

For certain the spirit of Antichrist was doing his thing in John's time, but there is really not even one word here that would give a reader even a hint that this first horse and rider were evil. All things considered, it is FAR more likely to represent the gospel. There can be NO DOUBT the early church had to overcome as the gospel went out. the life of Paul is a good example. Stephen was another example. The opposition was so strong, Stephen became a martyr.  Paul and Daniel made it clear that territories of the earth are controlled by evil spirits; principalities and powers. These had to be conquered as the gospel went out. 

 

[iamlamad]

2 hours ago, dhchristian said:

Not to mention all the false teachers and apostle Paul spoke of, and James and Jude and Peter. Once Satan realized the mistake he made in crucifying the LORD, he went out and about to Usurp authority in the church to replace Christ as the head of the church, The all in all. This has been going on since Pentecost. Satan was limited by Christ.. "The Gates of hell shall not prevail against My church"... So he went out to riding on a white Horse as a Wolf in sheep's clothing  with a Bow, but no arrows, Not as a military conqueror but as a mediator Between God and man, thus usurping this Authority from Christ Jesus. These are the Nicolaitans that John wrote of in revelation as well, which means those who rule over the Laity, and those who are truly Born again have been dealing with these antichrists (plural) ever since then in the form of man made institutional churches. This Rider on the white Horse of the first seal is the final one of these, will become THE antichrist. You can see this in the following passage as well.

This word, "Nicolaitans" came from a member of that church: "Nicolas." Therefore to break down the meaning of the word becomes meaningless. It was his name given at his birth. "Nicolas" was allowing other man access to his wife, according to early church writers. It was a sexual sin, not a rulership or shepherding sin.  If you wish to imagine God would use white 16 times for righteousness and once for evil, I am certainly not going to stand in your way. I can only hope this works out well for you.

[dhchristian]

Just now, iamlamad said:

Sorry, but again you miss it big time. Do you ever admit a mistake?

nikaō Verb

overcome (24x), conquer (2x), prevail (1x), get the victory (1x)

Nikao is the verb form of Nike from which Nicolaitans comes from. 

[dhchristian]

Just now, iamlamad said:

Just saying: the commentaries seem decidedly on my side of this.

I Thought you relied on the Holy Ghost, and not commentaries? Simple Greek Grammar ties Nikao, the verb to Nike the Noun from which Nicolaitans comes from, so no need for commentaries here. Again, this use of commentaries is an appeal to ad populum, which does not work for me. I Can point to numerous timelines that say the great tribulation is the first half of the weak but I do not.

[dhchristian]

Just now, iamlamad said:

writers. It was a sexual sin, not a rulership or shepherding sin.  If you wish to imagine God would use white 16 times for righteousness and once for evil, I am certainly not going to stand in your way. I can only hope this works out well for you.

It is Ok if you if you fail to see that Satan likes to Mimic Christ and take his place as the false Messiah... or is it?

 

[iamlamad]

2 hours ago, dhchristian said:

Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.  For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. (2 Thess. 2:5-7)  

Yes, Jesus is opening them, But The adversary is allowed to accomplish the wicked deeds therein. A seal is a hedge of protection, Just like in the story of Job. At first Satan was allowed to take away all he had materially, but the then a hedge was removed and he suffered Boils and wanted to die... We will be tested that way as well, and many will fall away. 

I am convinced the Holy spirit, working through His church, is preventing the man of sin from being revealed before His time. When the church is removed, He will have no one to work through for some small amount of time, and the man of sin will then feel free to enter the temple and declare he is God. He is alive now but hidden. He is doing NOTHING to reveal himself. 

Sorry, but the seals are for ONE PURPOSE: to seal the book.  The book is a legal document created in heaven.  I am convinced that Satan DEMANDED seals before the book could be opened. I suspect he demanded, if God was to start the church, then he would be allowed to attack the church. After all, it is still HIS world. Once a seal is opened, then and ONLY then can what is written on that seal be accomplished. So when seal 2 was opened, then it became legal for Satan to begin wars - but ONLY in that 1/4 of the world. 

When seal 3 was opened, then and only then could Satan bring famines. In short, God wanted to send out His church to the world, but Satan wanted to stop it. It is as you wrote: "The adversary is allowed to accomplish the wicked deeds therein" when a seal is opened. 

Were you thinking before the antichrist is revealed, THEN he is limited to 1/4 of the world, but after He will be given authority over the entire world? 

I don't think so. He has made full use of the 1/4, starting two world wars, countless famines, epidemics that have killed millions - all in the 1/4 allowed. 

[iamlamad]

2 minutes ago, dhchristian said:

It is Ok if you if you fail to see that Satan likes to Mimic Christ and take his place as the false Messiah... or is it?

AFTER chapter 13 he will do exactly that. He will enter the most holy place in the temple where ONLY GOD was suppose to be.  I DO see this. What I do not see is your theory about all this. 

Edited November 19, 2019 by iamlamad

[iamlamad]

7 minutes ago, dhchristian said:

I Thought you relied on the Holy Ghost, and not commentaries? Simple Greek Grammar ties Nikao, the verb to Nike the Noun from which Nicolaitans comes from, so no need for commentaries here. Again, this use of commentaries is an appeal to ad populum, which does not work for me. I Can point to numerous timelines that say the great tribulation is the first half of the weak but I do not.

You do understand, I hope, that understanding scripture takes at least some common sense. Nicolus had nothing to do with the name his mom gave him.  The cult was named, not for what it was doing, but for the MAN who started it. But who am I to disagree with someone who knows? By all means, carry one with this theory! Try and teach as many as you can. I just hope it works out well for you.

Commentaries show us what some people in the past through about scriptures. And many readers followed their ideas. Sometimes for the good, other times not so good. 

[iamlamad]

16 minutes ago, dhchristian said:

Nikao is the verb form of Nike from which Nicolaitans comes from. 

Sorry, but It was a man's NAME! The whole group who got into his was was named after HIM. His name could have meant ANYTHING in Greek.