John's 7 visions and triangulating with other scriptures

[iamlamad]

3 hours ago, dhchristian said:

I Guess a proclamation of judgment is a prophecy in a sense. 

No, I am placing the proclamation within days before the Beast  kingdom is destroyed, the two witnesses are resurrected, and the rapture occurs. AKA the day of Christ.

What you are saying is that These angels warn the world not to take the mark of the beast, which contradicts what Paul wrote about the strong delusion. I think many of those people who hear that proclamation will be stunned when they hear it, being so fooled by the strong delusion.

Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness. (2 Thess. 2:9-12)

I Believe the following will be their reaction when the proclamation is made, and they realize they believed the lie...

 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand? (Rev 6:16-17)

Sounds to me like People realizing they have fallen for a lie, and there is nothing they can do about it?

I think you have John's chronology all mixed up. But then, you don't want to follow what is written. 

It is the Day of the Lord starting at the 6th seal. The day of the Lord will be triggered by the Rapture. So the rapture comes, the dead in Christ rise up, creating a worldwide earthquake, which is the great earthquake at the 6th seal and is Paul's sudden destruction.  the sun turns black as sackcloth (probably a solar eclipse) and the moon turns red (probably a lunar eclipse) (but not at the same time if they are eclipses). If they are not caused by eclipses, then they will be caused by the great earthquake or something else. The point is, they know from the earthquake and Isaiah 2, and the signs in the sun and moon that the DAY has started. They are scared and cry for the mountains to fall on them. 

So now THE DAY has started. The 70th week is still future.  I personally believe the ten days of Awe will come before the 7th seal, but it is only a guess. In any case, soon after the 6th seal events have settled down, the 7th seal will be opened so that the BOOK can be opened. It will be the start of a seven year treaty of some kind, which may be done in secret. The first trumpet judgment hits, followed by the 2nd, 3rd, etc, in the first half of the week.  Next the man of sin will enter Jerusalem with his Gentile armies, who will trample the city for the  next 42 months.

The two witnesses will suddenly appear and begin their testimony, probably on day 1256 of the first half of the week. Their time of testifying will go almost to the end of the week before they are killed. Finally, after 1260 days, the 7th trumpet will sound in heaven at the same moment the man of sin declares he is God in the Jewish temple: it is the abomination Jesus talked about. It will divide the week. The abomination is like a HUGE AXE that severs the week into two halves. The sacrifices are stopped. They will not get started again until after Jesus returns - if then.  So the last half of the week will have no daily sacrifices. 

The next thing to happen is those in Judea will flee when they see the abomination. 

Satan is then cast down, very angry. He will immediately possess the man of sin turned  Beast.

John then sees the Beast rise up.  Those who know the scriptures will now know He is the Beast. 

Some unknown time later the False Prophet shows up and together then create an image and mark.

While the image and mark are being created, God sends angels with their warning. 

The Beast and False prophet then begin to enforce the image and mark, with the threat of death, so the beheaded begin to show up in heaven as seen in chapter 15.

Now please tell us where John went wrong.  

Edited November 21, 2019 by iamlamad

[iamlamad]

4 hours ago, dhchristian said:

The start of the final week.... I Placed in my OP that the exact time is TBD. I Will go out on a limb and tell you what I think, though I have not researched this yet. I Believe the two witnesses starting their ministry is the first trumpet.

I too believe the WEEK will begin with the 7th seal that gets the book opened to reveal the trumpet judgments.  I doubt if there is much time between the 7th seal and the first trumpet.  I still think the two witnesses show up right in the exact spot John first mentions them. And I know chapters 11 through 13 are midpoint chapters.  I know the two witnesses testify in the last half of the week. You don't know this yet. 

[dhchristian]

8 hours ago, iamlamad said:

The two witnesses will suddenly appear and begin their testimony, probably on day 1256 of the first half of the week. Their time of testifying will go almost to the end of the week before they are killed. Finally, after 1260 days, the 7th trumpet will sound in heaven at the same moment the man of sin declares he is God in the Jewish temple: it is the abomination Jesus talked about. It will divide the week. The abomination is like a HUGE AXE that severs the week into two halves. The sacrifices are stopped. They will not get started again until after Jesus returns - if then.  So the last half of the week will have no daily sacrifices. 

The next thing to happen is those in Judea will flee when they see the abomination. 

Satan is then cast down, very angry. He will immediately possess the man of sin turned  Beast.

John then sees the Beast rise up.  Those who know the scriptures will now know He is the Beast. 

Some unknown time later the False Prophet shows up and together then create an image and mark.

While the image and mark are being created, God sends angels with their warning. 

The Beast and False prophet then begin to enforce the image and mark, with the threat of death, so the beheaded begin to show up in heaven as seen in chapter 15.

Now please tell us where John went wrong.  

You do  not leave any time for the events that happen after the beasts kingdom is destroyed, this is how you are wrong, not John. In Fact you do not see all the events that have to happen after this. You are only left with 30 days max, and there is no way those events can take place in 30 days. 

[dhchristian]

9 hours ago, iamlamad said:

13 hours ago, dhchristian said:

The start of the final week.... I Placed in my OP that the exact time is TBD. I Will go out on a limb and tell you what I think, though I have not researched this yet. I Believe the two witnesses starting their ministry is the first trumpet.

I too believe the WEEK will begin with the 7th seal that gets the book opened to reveal the trumpet judgments.  I doubt if there is much time between the 7th seal and the first trumpet.  I still think the two witnesses show up right in the exact spot John first mentions them. And I know chapters 11 through 13 are midpoint chapters.  I know the two witnesses testify in the last half of the week. You don't know this yet. 

I Did not say that The seventh seal comes after the great tribulation. The first trumpet comes towards the beginning of the week. Those first five seals were opened at the resurrection as you pointed out, But I believe at the very start of the week they unrestrained which begins the wrath of Satan. Of the wraths spoken of in revelation, the Order they come in is The wrath of Satan is first, the wrath of the Lamb is second, the wrath of God is third. 

Here is what I wrote in the OP Re seven visions

1 The vision of the churches (ages) Approx. Rev 1-3 

2 The vision of the seals Rev. 4-8:5 

3 The vision of the Trumpets Rev 8:6-11 

4 The vision of the characters Rev 12-14 

5 The vision of the Bowls of wrath Rev 15-16

6 the vision of the battles Rev. 17-19 

7 The vision of the Millennium and eternity Rev. 20-end 

 

The start time of the visions are as follows. Dates are approximates.

1 Pentecost, 30AD

2 Resurrection 30 AD

3 Start of the final week TBD

4 At the birth of Christ 4/3 BC

5 At the sixth Trumpet TBD 

6 At the fifth Trumpet TBD

7 At the end of the final week TBD

 

Where as you use parenthesis to frame passages as past, I do not have to because they are not needed with my framework here. It is self explanatory. So for example you place rev. 12:1-5 in a parenthesis, I do not as this is the start of a new vision. With these layers and overlap in visions in mind is where you begin to see the details filled in such as the message of the three angels being a proclamation of judgment against the beasts kingdom and those who fell for the mark of the beast and the strong delusion thereof. Or How the Woman comes out of the wilderness as a harlot riding the last beast that ascends out of the bottomless pit at the fifth trumpet. etc. You do not see these things because you presume that the beast of rev. 13 is the same as rev. 17, only with a big parenthesis in rev. 17.

The beast of rev. 17 only rules for 1 hour. Whether that is one hour as in a literal hour, or 1 hour as in 1/24th of decade of Jewish years which equals 150 days I do not know, but it is no where's near the 42 months the beast of rev. 13 rules for. And the sole purpose of this last beast rising to power is to carry out God's will against the harlot false religion of the beast of rev. 13.  

[iamlamad]

35 minutes ago, dhchristian said:

I Did not say that The seventh seal comes after the great tribulation. The first trumpet comes towards the beginning of the week. Those first five seals were opened at the resurrection as you pointed out, But I believe at the very start of the week they unrestrained which begins the wrath of Satan. Of the wraths spoken of in revelation, the Order they come in is The wrath of Satan is first, the wrath of the Lamb is second, the wrath of God is third. 

Here is what I wrote in the OP Re seven visions

1 The vision of the churches (ages) Approx. Rev 1-3 

2 The vision of the seals Rev. 4-8:5 

3 The vision of the Trumpets Rev 8:6-11 

4 The vision of the characters Rev 12-14 

5 The vision of the Bowls of wrath Rev 15-16

6 the vision of the battles Rev. 17-19 

7 The vision of the Millennium and eternity Rev. 20-end 

 

The start time of the visions are as follows. Dates are approximates.

1 Pentecost, 30AD

2 Resurrection 30 AD

3 Start of the final week TBD

4 At the birth of Christ 4/3 BC

5 At the sixth Trumpet TBD 

6 At the fifth Trumpet TBD

7 At the end of the final week TBD

 

Where as you use parenthesis to frame passages as past, I do not have to because they are not needed with my framework here. It is self explanatory. So for example you place rev. 12:1-5 in a parenthesis, I do not as this is the start of a new vision. With these layers and overlap in visions in mind is where you begin to see the details filled in such as the message of the three angels being a proclamation of judgment against the beasts kingdom and those who fell for the mark of the beast and the strong delusion thereof. Or How the Woman comes out of the wilderness as a harlot riding the last beast that ascends out of the bottomless pit at the fifth trumpet. etc. You do not see these things because you presume that the beast of rev. 13 is the same as rev. 17, only with a big parenthesis in rev. 17.

The beast of rev. 17 only rules for 1 hour. Whether that is one hour as in a literal hour, or 1 hour as in 1/24th of decade of Jewish years which equals 150 days I do not know, but it is no where's near the 42 months the beast of rev. 13 rules for. And the sole purpose of this last beast rising to power is to carry out God's will against the harlot false religion of the beast of rev. 13.  

Here is what you DID say, 11/19 at 8:53 AM:
I Have told you already, Birthpangs= church age tribulation, The birth itself=Great tribulation, a specific 3.5 year time, Followed by the season of Joy= The sixth seal rapture. 

If the great tribulation is before the 6th seal, then it must be before the 7th seal. John numbered them for proper sequencing. 

You are writing things totally foreign to me: where do you get this Beast of Rev. 17 ruling for one hour? Do you this this as a DIFFERENT Beast? It seems you do. I wonder why? What possible indication did John give us of a third "beast?"

Rev. 13:1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

Rev. 17:3  So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.

Let's see:  Both of these is "a beast." Both have seven heads, both have ten horns. The only difference is, the Rev. 13 beast has apparently a crown for each horn.  Why crowns in chapter 13 and non in chapter 17? I can only guess: Chapter 17 is at the time of the destruction of the Beast's kingdom or kingdoms. In chapter 13 we can guess it is about the time that the man of sin turned Beast will conquer 3 out of ten kingdoms leaving 7 left. At this time the 7 left will each have a king.  But once time passes the Beast consolidates these 7 into one big kingdom so no more crowns.  It is only a very wild guess. 

I have no clue as to why the chapter 13 beast appears like a leopard, and the chapter 17 beast appears as a scarlet beast. It seems this beast in chapter 17 looks more like the dragon of chapter 12!

Rev. 12:3  And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.

I have no revelation knowledge of these beasts.  Perhaps you have a point: in chapter 13 it is speaking of the MAN -  the man of sin turned into a Beast after he is possessed by the Devil or another ruling spirit. The Beast in chapter 17 is that ruling spirit, and not the man. 

So for example you place rev. 12:1-5 in a parenthesis, I do not as this is the start of a new vision.   It is a parenthesis because these 5 verses are about the birth of Christ and are totally unrelated to events at the midpoint of the week that follow verse 5. The only connection is the Dragon or Satan. Satan as we know is a murderer from the beginning. He will be using the Beast to murder millions during the days of GT.  While Jesus was introducing John to this Dragon or Satan, HE, Jesus, CHOSE to show John that Satan tried to kill Him, Jesus, when He was a small child.  Without a doubt, John wrote this as a parenthesis.  Without a parenthesis, those 5 verses will be tied to the rest of the chapter, so if people don't see the parenthesis, they will  think these 5 verses are related somehow to our future as the rest of the chapter is.

I think there is a big parenthesis in chapter 13, not chapter 17. In chapter 13, the beast rising is part of John's chronology, but then John takes the readers on a side journey (outside his chronology) down the last half of the week with these two beasts only.

I think it is the ten horns (ten kings with their nations behind them) that join in with the Beast for that one hour - I think these are the ones called in by the 6th vial - the gathering for Armageddon.

Do you still disagree with (and with John) that the harlot is the city of Jerusalem? John wrote it right out for us!

[dhchristian]

21 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

Here is what you DID say, 11/19 at 8:53 AM:
I Have told you already, Birthpangs= church age tribulation, The birth itself=Great tribulation, a specific 3.5 year time, Followed by the season of Joy= The sixth seal rapture. 

If the great tribulation is before the 6th seal, then it must be before the 7th seal. John numbered them for proper sequencing. 

You are writing things totally foreign to me: where do you get this Beast of Rev. 17 ruling for one hour? Do you this this as a DIFFERENT Beast? It seems you do. I wonder why? What possible indication did John give us of a third "beast?"

Yes, that is what I said, and that is what I said in this comment as well.

Birth pangs= tribulation (which consists of the church age) This consists of seals 1-5 which are restrained By the LORD. 

Birth= Great tribulation which occurs at the beginning of the final week, as per Jesus and the Olivet discourse. The Restraint is lifted and seals 1-5 become worldwide, and trumpets begin. The trumpets affect 1/3 of creation... Creation groans in travail with us (Romans 8)

The season of Joy comes after the birth, this is the rapture, which is simultaneous to the rapture of the two witnesses, and is the sixth seal. This is the day of Christ. If you are on the wrong side when this day comes it is the wrath of the Lamb. This is when Christ Jesus destroys the beasts kingdom with the breath of his mouth and the brightness of his coming. The mark of the beast is over, the Spirits of the dragon, the beast and the false prophet go and gather the nations for Armageddon, mean while the beast that rose out of the bottomless pit begins his short rule, with the express purpose on executing judgment on the harlot religion, after losing in the war against the Lamb.

Up until this point none of the sevens have happened, The Church now having departed, we are left with the following characters. The beast from the bottomless pit, two Women emerging from the wilderness one as the nation of Israel, the other as the harlot, The spirits of the beast, false prophet and dragon that go and gather the kings of the earth for the great battle. 

where do you get this Beast of Rev. 17 ruling for one hour? Do you this this as a DIFFERENT Beast? It seems you do. I wonder why? What possible indication did John give us of a third "beast?" Let me answer this specifically. And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast. (17:12)  Answer to Question one.

The beast of revelation 13 rises out of the sea, the beast of revelation 17 out of the bottomless pit (thus they have a different origin) The beast of Rev. 13 rules for 42 months The Beast of rev. 17 gets 1 Hour (Different period of time for ruling). The beast of revelation 13 is given Power by the Dragon, The Beast that ascends out the bottomless pit is given the Power By God to carry out his judgment on the harlot. (Different source of empowerment See verse below.) 

And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire. For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled. (17:16-17)

This beast is actually the fourth beast. You have the dragon, The antichrist beast, the false prophet, and now the beast out of the bottomless pit.   

[iamlamad]

3 hours ago, dhchristian said:

Yes, that is what I said, and that is what I said in this comment as well.

Birth pangs= tribulation (which consists of the church age) This consists of seals 1-5 which are restrained By the LORD. 

Birth= Great tribulation which occurs at the beginning of the final week, as per Jesus and the Olivet discourse. The Restraint is lifted and seals 1-5 become worldwide, and trumpets begin. The trumpets affect 1/3 of creation... Creation groans in travail with us (Romans 8)

The season of Joy comes after the birth, this is the rapture, which is simultaneous to the rapture of the two witnesses, and is the sixth seal. This is the day of Christ. If you are on the wrong side when this day comes it is the wrath of the Lamb. This is when Christ Jesus destroys the beasts kingdom with the breath of his mouth and the brightness of his coming. The mark of the beast is over, the Spirits of the dragon, the beast and the false prophet go and gather the nations for Armageddon, mean while the beast that rose out of the bottomless pit begins his short rule, with the express purpose on executing judgment on the harlot religion, after losing in the war against the Lamb.

Up until this point none of the sevens have happened, The Church now having departed, we are left with the following characters. The beast from the bottomless pit, two Women emerging from the wilderness one as the nation of Israel, the other as the harlot, The spirits of the beast, false prophet and dragon that go and gather the kings of the earth for the great battle. 

where do you get this Beast of Rev. 17 ruling for one hour? Do you this this as a DIFFERENT Beast? It seems you do. I wonder why? What possible indication did John give us of a third "beast?" Let me answer this specifically. And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast. (17:12)  Answer to Question one.

The beast of revelation 13 rises out of the sea, the beast of revelation 17 out of the bottomless pit (thus they have a different origin) The beast of Rev. 13 rules for 42 months The Beast of rev. 17 gets 1 Hour (Different period of time for ruling). The beast of revelation 13 is given Power by the Dragon, The Beast that ascends out the bottomless pit is given the Power By God to carry out his judgment on the harlot. (Different source of empowerment See verse below.) 

And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire. For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled. (17:16-17)

This beast is actually the fourth beast. You have the dragon, The antichrist beast, the false prophet, and now the beast out of the bottomless pit.   

I see how you got the Beast with one hour of rule, but it specifically says it is the ten horns that are limited to the "one hour," not the Beast himself.  At the 6th vial, demonic spirits are sent out to draw those ten nations (the armies thereof) to Jerusalem. It will be the devil that sends out  his spirits,  so perhaps this chapter 17 beast IS the devil. Got it: the sea and the pit: two different sources. 

The Beast of rev. 17 gets 1 Hour (Different period of time for ruling).   I disagree: it is the ten horns (ten kings) that rule WITH the Beast for one hour. It What happens to the Beast at that time? John does not tell us.

(Different source of empowerment)  Again I disagree: God is not empowering them, he is giving them their desire. Note,  "give their kingdom unto the beast"  It is the Beast's power, with God's desire or will.

I have never studied these beasts, so I am learning.  I am beginning to think this 4th Beast is the devil Himself. AFter all, He is certainly the chief destroyer. But for that to be so, he must enter the bottomless pit sometime after the 5th trumpet gets it unlocked. Perhaps there is another ruling spirit - a henchman of the devil - who is named "the destroyer." and it is he who leads the hoard of stinging locusts.

In this case, I see your point - but ONLY on this 4th Beast. Good job. 

You know I disagree on almost everything else!

Edited November 21, 2019 by iamlamad

[iamlamad]

8 hours ago, dhchristian said:

You do  not leave any time for the events that happen after the beasts kingdom is destroyed, this is how you are wrong, not John. In Fact you do not see all the events that have to happen after this. You are only left with 30 days max, and there is no way those events can take place in 30 days. 

Please enlighten us! What has to happen after the HUGE earthquake that destroys the cities of the world - including the kingdom of the beast - after the 7th vial?  Only the destruction seen in chapters 17 & 18. These events can be taking place during the marriage and supper.

What am I missing?

[iamlamad]

5 hours ago, dhchristian said:

Yes, that is what I said, and that is what I said in this comment as well.

Birth pangs= tribulation (which consists of the church age) This consists of seals 1-5 which are restrained By the LORD. 

Birth= Great tribulation which occurs at the beginning of the final week, as per Jesus and the Olivet discourse. The Restraint is lifted and seals 1-5 become worldwide, and trumpets begin. The trumpets affect 1/3 of creation... Creation groans in travail with us (Romans 8)

The season of Joy comes after the birth, this is the rapture, which is simultaneous to the rapture of the two witnesses, and is the sixth seal. This is the day of Christ. If you are on the wrong side when this day comes it is the wrath of the Lamb. This is when Christ Jesus destroys the beasts kingdom with the breath of his mouth and the brightness of his coming. The mark of the beast is over, the Spirits of the dragon, the beast and the false prophet go and gather the nations for Armageddon, mean while the beast that rose out of the bottomless pit begins his short rule, with the express purpose on executing judgment on the harlot religion, after losing in the war against the Lamb.

Up until this point none of the sevens have happened, The Church now having departed, we are left with the following characters. The beast from the bottomless pit, two Women emerging from the wilderness one as the nation of Israel, the other as the harlot, The spirits of the beast, false prophet and dragon that go and gather the kings of the earth for the great battle. 

where do you get this Beast of Rev. 17 ruling for one hour? Do you this this as a DIFFERENT Beast? It seems you do. I wonder why? What possible indication did John give us of a third "beast?" Let me answer this specifically. And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast. (17:12)  Answer to Question one.

The beast of revelation 13 rises out of the sea, the beast of revelation 17 out of the bottomless pit (thus they have a different origin) The beast of Rev. 13 rules for 42 months The Beast of rev. 17 gets 1 Hour (Different period of time for ruling). The beast of revelation 13 is given Power by the Dragon, The Beast that ascends out the bottomless pit is given the Power By God to carry out his judgment on the harlot. (Different source of empowerment See verse below.) 

And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire. For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled. (17:16-17)

This beast is actually the fourth beast. You have the dragon, The antichrist beast, the false prophet, and now the beast out of the bottomless pit.   

I want to wrote more about this post. You said in a previous post:

"I Have told you already, Birthpangs= church age tribulation, The birth itself=Great tribulation, a specific 3.5 year time, Followed by the season of Joy= The sixth seal rapture. "

Birth= Great tribulation which occurs at the beginning of the final week, as per Jesus and the Olivet discourse. The Restraint is lifted and seals 1-5 become worldwide,

So you are saying the days of GT are before the 6th seal.  Yet you also said "Birth pangs= tribulation (which consists of the church age) This consists of seals 1-5..."  Therefore logic tells us the days of GT MUST BE between seal 5 and seal 6.  Wow. The greatest persecution ever fousted on the human race, and it happens between two verses! 

Well, perhaps there is another alternative: you rearrange the seals! 

I really hope you are kidding!

[dhchristian]

15 hours ago, iamlamad said:

The Beast of rev. 17 gets 1 Hour (Different period of time for ruling).   I disagree: it is the ten horns (ten kings) that rule WITH the Beast for one hour. It What happens to the Beast at that time? John does not tell us.

The beast of rev. 13 has 10 crowns throughout the 42months, the beast of Rev. 17 has no crowns and receives them for an hour. 

 

15 hours ago, iamlamad said:

(Different source of empowerment)  Again I disagree: God is not empowering them, he is giving them their desire. Note,  "give their kingdom unto the beast"  It is the Beast's power, with God's desire or will.

That is what I meant, that beast is carrying out God's will on the Harlot. The Beast of Rev. 13 uses this world religion to empower himself via the false Prophet.

 

15 hours ago, iamlamad said:

Please enlighten us! What has to happen after the HUGE earthquake that destroys the cities of the world - including the kingdom of the beast - after the 7th vial?  Only the destruction seen in chapters 17 & 18. These events can be taking place during the marriage and supper.

What am I missing?

Daniel 9:24 gives a list of things that have to happen which cannot happen while the beast is ruling in Jerusalem and the sacrifices and oblations have ceased for the first half of the week. There is the regathering of the children of Jacob from the four corners of the earth, there is the Spirits of the beast, the dragon and the false prophet being sent out to gather the nations for Armageddon, before this the Euphrates river must dry up to make a way for the kings of the east, Not to mention the destructions in rev. 17-18. 

 

13 hours ago, iamlamad said:

So you are saying the days of GT are before the 6th seal.  Yet you also said "Birth pangs= tribulation (which consists of the church age) This consists of seals 1-5..."  Therefore logic tells us the days of GT MUST BE between seal 5 and seal 6.  Wow. The greatest persecution ever fousted on the human race, and it happens between two verses! 

The great tribulation consists of all the first fives seals unrestrained as well as the trumpets. Think of it like the seals are the contractions of labor, they never stop at child birth they intensify, and added to this are the pains of child birth itself, Trumpets 1-6. The church has been in Labor since the time of the Apostles, and they even said so (Gal. 4:19, 1 Thess. 2:9, Rev. 1:9) during the birthing process those pains will increase, become more numerous.... For example if you refuse the mark of the beast, How will you buy food? Or how will you access health care for disease? Satan will offer you the pain killer to relieve the pain if you worship his man and take his mark. But because creation itself is groaning in labor with us, this will not work, as the birth must occur. Joy Awaits those who endure to the end.