John's 7 visions and triangulating with other scriptures

[dhchristian]

Here, Go to this image, and stare at then put your focus in the distance beyond the image and you will see an elephant in three dimensions that is what I am trying to get you to do with revelation. Some people just never get it.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_k6DWaJQR62A/THTpGTuyqkI/AAAAAAAABQs/5Dgj_c9Va_g/s1600/elephant.jpeg

[dhchristian]

Just now, iamlamad said:

Your point is heard but your theory is FAR FAR more complicated that God ever planned.  It is a revealing, not a hiding.

It's not, when you learn to look.... it is very simple.

[dhchristian]

Who Is Born?

The invariable question that remains in this Posting here, Is who is Born during this Birthing Process. Let be clear this is a Mystery in the full extent of the Word. John Writes:

 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. (1 John 3:2)

So for myself to make the claim that I know is to say I know more than John and the Apostles. But the most obvious thing we can know is that this birth is based on the church, and not on Israel, As this birth is based on the Spirit, the firstfruits of which were born at Pentecost. This is the fulness of the gentiles as well, that scripture speaks of. It involves us receiving our glorified bodies, as Paul writes: And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body. (Romans 8:23)

Some say we are reborn as the first Adam was in the Garden of Eden, A theory I long held, But as I have grown to see this better, this "what we shall be" is far greater than Adamic Man. For we will now have had the free will to choose evil and good and Have instead rejected this tree, and chosen the Tree of Life, which is Christ Jesus. That very sin, to be Like God that caused Satan to fall, and mankind to fall, will have been rejected, By the sons of God, Born of the Spirit.

In the end times, the Patient endurance of the saints is the birthing process they must endure, and this suffering will bring Joy as the birth occurs. Just like Jesus Ministered and suffered rejection for 3.5 years, and then faced death on the cross so too will we share in this suffering. Peter writes of this fiery trial coming upon us saying: Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you: But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ's sufferings; that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy. If ye be reproached for the name of Christ, happy are ye; for the spirit of glory and of God resteth upon you: on their part he is evil spoken of, but on your part he is glorified. But let none of you suffer as a murderer, or as a thief, or as an evildoer, or as a busybody in other men's matters.Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf. For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God? And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear? Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator. (1 Peter 4:12-19) 

So To say we will not suffer is to say we will not share in his sufferings, for we as the Body of Christ suffer on His behalf, that we may Glory when he is glorified in us. This concept is so counter to the escapism of modern pre-trib theories that are out there. But We see that this suffering brings Joy unspeakable, so we endure, Not by our own strength and will, but by His Grace and the Work of the Holy Ghost in us. The first 3.5 years of the final week, and the time of Great tribulation will be the Worst time for the church, yet the product of that suffering will make this our finest hour. And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified. (Romans 8:29-30)

The Three Ages.

In The Bible there are three ages discussed, each approximately 2000 years in length. There is the age of the Fathers, from Adam to Abraham, the Age of the sons, from Isaac and Jacob to Jesus, and the Age of the Holy Ghost, from Pentecost till today, Also known as the church age. Each age ends with a birth, In Abraham's case it was the birth of Isaac miraculously conceived at an Old Age, The Age of the sons culminated in the virgin Birth of Jesus Christ, a miraculous Birth. The Age of the Holy Ghost will be no different, as we enter the millennial rest.  

[Last Daze]

2 hours ago, dhchristian said:

In The Bible there are three ages discussed, each approximately 2000 years in length. There is the age of the Fathers, from Adam to Abraham, the Age of the sons, from Isaac and Jacob to Jesus, and the Age of the Holy Ghost, from Pentecost till today, Also known as the church age. Each age ends with a birth, In Abraham's case it was the birth of Isaac miraculously conceived at an Old Age, The Age of the sons culminated in the virgin Birth of Jesus Christ, a miraculous Birth. The Age of the Holy Ghost will be no different, as we enter the millennial rest.

Interesting delineation / observations.

[dhchristian]

@Da Puppers Posted this on another page here, and this fit so well here I wanted to transcribe it here. (Hope you Don't Mind Pup?) It deals with the difference of the Wrath of the Lamb and the Wrath of God. (Note I reduced the size of the text from the original posting.)

5 hours ago, Walter Goraj jr said:

PuP... I was following you right along in agreement up until you want to separate the wrath of the lamb from the wrath of Almighty God. Could you do this for me? Could you list three or five verses that best describe the "wrath of the Lamb", and some verses that describe the "wrath of Almighty God" I would like to compare the differences between the two groups of scripture. Thank you.

Let me start with getting you to see that when you see the phrase,  "Lord of hosts", it is directly referring to the Redeemer of Israel,  the Lord Jesus Christ, 

*[[Isa 44:6]]* Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.

*[[Isa 47:4]]* As for our redeemer, the LORD of hosts is his name, the Holy One of Israel.

*[[Isa 54:5]]* For thy Maker is thine husband; the LORD of hosts is his name; and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall he be called.

*[[Isa 44:6]]* Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his REDEEMER the LORD of HOSTS; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.

*[[Isa 47:4]]* As for our REDEEMER, the LORD of HOSTS is his name, the Holy One of Israel.

*[[Isa 54:5]]* For thy Maker is thine husband; the LORD of HOSTS is his name; and thy REDEEMER the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall he be called.

*[[Jer 50:34]]* Their REDEEMER is strong; the LORD of HOSTS is his name: he shall throughly plead their cause, that he may give rest to the land, and disquiet the inhabitants of Babylon.

He is the king of Israel. 

Let me now post psalm 110 and noting the different uses of Lord,  Yahweh and the Lord,  Adonai. 

It is a very widely quoted scripture by several N.T. writers. 

 
Psa 110:1-6 KJV    A Psalm of David. The LORD (Yahweh) said unto my Lord (Adon), Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool. The LORD(Yahweh)  shall send the rod of thy strength out of Zion: rule thou in the midst of thine enemies. Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power, in the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning: thou hast the dew of thy youth. The LORD (Yahweh) hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou (Adonai) art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek. The Lord (Adonai)  at thy (Yahweh's)  right hand shall strike through kings in the day of his wrath. He (Adonai)  shall judge among the heathen, he (Adonai)  shall fill the places with the dead bodies; he (Adonai) shall wound the heads over many countries.

The [Lord] one that is sitting at the right hand of the other [LORD], is called Lord Adonai,  and the other is called the LORD YAHWEH.  Adonai sits at the right hand of Yahweh...Jesus sits at the right hand of the Father.   Jesus is called Adonai.   Jesus used this scripture to confound the wise when he asked them,  "how is it that David,  [their Lord]  calls Adonai,  Lord,  if he Jesus is David's son? "  They knew that a future son of David was going to be their future king/ messiah.   To paraphrase,  Jesus asked them "how could David call him Lord,  if the Lord was to be David's son?"

Anyway,  the Lord Jesus is called Adonai, as well as being the Lord of hosts.   Both the LORD Yahweh and Lord Adonai are collectively called the Lord of hosts,  but Jesus is specifically,  uniquely qualified to be called the Redeemer,  and King of Israel.  Notice what it said there in verse 5.  The Lord,  Adonai,  at thy right hand shall strike through kings in the DAY OF HIS WRATH.   We seen  from the Rev 6 quote that the kings of the earth and other great men shall shudder and hide in the rocks and mountains, hiding from the one who sits on the throne,  Yahweh,  AND from the wrath of the Lamb. 

..him that sitteth  on  the throne, and  from  the wrath  of the Lamb:

 17  For  the great  day  of his  wrath  is come; and  who  shall be able  to stand ?

 When Jesus is revealed from heaven it is with HIS holy angel to execute vengeance on them that don't know him, who have rejected the gospel of grace. 

And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, 

 8  In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: 

 9  Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

 10  When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day

We find the same thing about Jesus and his angels in the parable of the tares (and the net) 

Mat 13:41-42 KJVLite    The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

The angels of Christ shall come and (FIRST)  remove those things that offend and commit iniquity FROM his kingdom,  and then shall the righteous shine like the sun.  This is what is happening in the 7 trumpet angels.   The physical kingdom of God,  the land that is promised as an eternal inheritance to Abraham,  is purified through the 1st 6 trumpets and established at the 7th.   It's not simply that the land promised to Abraham carries an eternal "promise", but that land promise is an eternal inheritance.   I.e., there will come a day when that land is given to them (inherited), and will never,  ever be taken away from them again.   That is the whole basis of the new covenant.   When the time comes for that to take place [the land is inherited forever], they will never sin in any way for God to ever take it away from them.   His laws will be written in the hearts of the children of Israel.   Abraham,  Isaac and Jacob were merely temporary sojourners in the land of Canaan.   The eternal inheritance remains to be given. 

 I didn't mean to deviate so much.   But after that I pointed to Rev 11:18,19 where then,  God begins implementing his coordinated plan of wrath.   The kingdom of the beast and his mark of identification,  will exist side by side with the kingdom of God in Christ,  on earth.   People will no longer be able to straddle the fence.   The mark of the beast will be an unmistakable choice between God's kingdom of light and right,  versus the devils kingdom of darkness and sin.   When everyone has made their choice,  when the kingdom of God has been preached in all the world,  then the end will come. 

Be Blessed 

The PuP

You can Read the other comments at the following page...

 

[helonomer]

On 11/21/2019 at 9:22 AM, dhchristian said:

I Did not say that The seventh seal comes after the great tribulation. The first trumpet comes towards the beginning of the week. Those first five seals were opened at the resurrection as you pointed out, But I believe at the very start of the week they unrestrained which begins the wrath of Satan. Of the wraths spoken of in revelation, the Order they come in is The wrath of Satan is first, the wrath of the Lamb is second, the wrath of God is third. 

Here is what I wrote in the OP Re seven visions

1 The vision of the churches (ages) Approx. Rev 1-3 

2 The vision of the seals Rev. 4-8:5 

3 The vision of the Trumpets Rev 8:6-11 

4 The vision of the characters Rev 12-14 

5 The vision of the Bowls of wrath Rev 15-16

6 the vision of the battles Rev. 17-19 

7 The vision of the Millennium and eternity Rev. 20-end 

 

The start time of the visions are as follows. Dates are approximates.

1 Pentecost, 30AD

2 Resurrection 30 AD

3 Start of the final week TBD

4 At the birth of Christ 4/3 BC

5 At the sixth Trumpet TBD 

6 At the fifth Trumpet TBD

7 At the end of the final week TBD

(Some of that is Not-Applicable or Invalid)

(God does not touch this earth) (Isaiah's Prince of Peace)

1 The vision of the churches (ages) Approx. Rev 1-3 

(Daniel's Prophecy) (Babylon destroyed and rebuilt the church, "dead flesh", so those beasts of daniel (4) are equivalent to the genetic lines removed from book of revelation as tribes, until that is taken care of, expect nothing) (is a global argument, or is one too) (Daniel's Prophecy was about an Angel Emmanuel, that was smote on the knee, not Jesus, Jesus was not smote on the knee)

3. 3 The vision of the Trumpets Rev 8:6-11 

(Ezekiel's Prophecy) (God used angels to rebuke Jesus during his testimony, when he "touched this earth" ............ God also talks about about the Planet JUPITER (in various new testament books) AS A SECOND SUN, and this was true before the homosapien with the generations without sin) (Ezekiel's Temple is not, and was not, Solomon's Temple)

(God disputes touching this earth) (Isaiah's Assyrian)

2 The vision of the seals Rev. 4-8:5 

(God only allowed the Apostles (generations without sin), or sons of man in the new testament to perform miracles, to identify with God either mercy or rebuke ........ we see this as early as King David, were God began to isolate miracles to a specific individual only, or individuals) (king david removed all the giants, we don't see them anymore in the bible after that, that resolved that controversy of SEALS)

5 The vision of the Bowls of wrath Rev 15-16

(God disputes "WIFE TAKING" specifically for a certain period of time with humanity in its sin of "dead flesh", and then as god's enemy with the testimony of the son of man in that capacity.............(gog and magog)............this is resolved, when God gives the son of man strength, as in, you can no longer use that person or persons as payment for your sin, in your unclean ways..........that is good because, you will suffer much more at your own hands)

(Conflict of God's Mercies, and, Genocide as Natural Theory) (Issiah's Ensign of Nations)

4 The vision of the characters Rev 12-14 

6 the vision of the battles Rev. 17-19 

7 The vision of the Millennium and eternity Rev. 20-end 

(what is to happen)

(Well)

1. Functional Illness in Global Population resolved with First Strike (on certain countries)

2. God's Mercies introduced and incorporated into certain countries

3. Off world activities as picture of new earth (s), additionally as trial of faith or conviction of this generation.

(Isaiah's Prophecies do not deal with, someone like God peforming the work or someone like a , son of man, performing the work of dead flesh removal, and answering god about its being worthy as a final generation for articulation ............ mankind does that ................ and .................. nothing's happened right now, so maybe by the end of this year)

Edited December 18, 2019 by helonomer