THE TORAH --- WRONG CONCLUSION

[Blood Bought 1953]

I hope an on- looking world and especially Newbies will take notice— this is the way it almost always ends— Legalists will not answer a simple yes or no about whether or not the Law Saves.It does not.All it can do is condemn. Once you receive your Savior, you are DEAD TO THE LAW.You become ALIVE to the Spirit.The Law has done its job, now it is time to discard it and trust the Spirit to lead and guide your life.Do That and stand back and take  a look at your life and behavior objectively and  SURPRISE ! You  will be astonished to see that you are actually being more obedient by accident than you ever were by doing something out of fear and obligation.All long , it was about Love. Love is the ENGINE that drives obedience — NOT a Book Of Rules, no matter how great that Book was.Nothing wrong with the Torah. As I have said— it is great. The problem is with US. We can’t keep the Torah . Let’s thank God for His Gospel Of Grace . Unlike the Torah that is “ weak and beggarly” in regard to Salvation, the Gospel has POWER to save.Rest in it as ordered by God in Hebrews 3. All you “ Commandment - Keepers” out there? There’s the Commandment you should be worried about! 

I only post for the sake of Newbies that have not been ruined by Legalism.I have nothing more to add here— time to move on to squash the Leaven of the next batch of Judaizers..... it’s a never-ending thing....time to say good- bye to this thread.....all the points I wanted to make have been made.. God bless

Edited November 23, 2019 by Blood Bought 1953

[Alive]

49 minutes ago, Blood Bought 1953 said:

You are blowing it.....I will ask you one more time...it is very simple.....yes or no.....Does Obeying Torah Save or keep one saved?

@Roar did answer on page 9, @Blood Bought 1953

[1to3]

On 11/21/2019 at 4:13 PM, Alive said:

Gal. 4:21   Tell me, you who want to be under law, do you not ^alisten to the law? ²² For it is written that Abraham had two sons, ^aone by the bondwoman and ^bone by the free woman. ²³ But ^athe son by the bondwoman ¹was born according to the flesh, and ^bthe son by the free woman through the promise. ^{24 1a}This is allegorically speaking, for these women are two covenants: one proceeding from ^bMount Sinai bearing children ²who are to be ^cslaves; ³she is Hagar. ²⁵ Now this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to the present Jerusalem, for she is in slavery with her children. ²⁶ But ^athe Jerusalem above is free; ¹she is our mother.

²⁷  For it is written,

“^aREJOICE, BARREN WOMAN WHO DOES NOT BEAR;

BREAK FORTH AND SHOUT, YOU WHO ARE NOT IN LABOR;

FOR MORE NUMEROUS ARE THE CHILDREN OF THE DESOLATE

THAN OF THE ONE WHO HAS A HUSBAND.”

²⁸ And you brethren, ^alike Isaac, are ^bchildren of promise. ²⁹ But as at that time ^ahe who was born according to the flesh ^bpersecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, ^cso it is now also.

³⁰  But what does the Scripture say?

“^aCAST OUT THE BONDWOMAN AND HER SON,

FOR ^bTHE SON OF THE BONDWOMAN SHALL NOT BE AN HEIR WITH THE SON OF THE FREE WOMAN.”

³¹ So then, brethren, we are not children of a bondwoman, ¹but of the free woman.

 

Gal. 5:1   ^1aIt was for freedom that Christ set us free; therefore ^bkeep standing firm and do not be subject again to a ^cyoke of slavery.

 

Gal. 5:2   Behold I, ^aPaul, say to you that if you receive ^bcircumcision, Christ will be of no benefit to you. ³ And I ^atestify again to every man who receives ^bcircumcision, that he is under obligation to ^ckeep the whole Law. ⁴ You have been severed from Christ, you who ¹are seeking to be justified by law; you have ^afallen from grace. ⁵ For we ¹through the Spirit, ²by faith, are ^awaiting for the hope of righteousness. ⁶ For in ^aChrist Jesus ^bneither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything, but ^cfaith working through love.

[Blood Bought 1953]

Then why can’t he answer with a simple yes or no right now? He has answered by his failure to do so .Any non-Legalist could answer the question easily, as I did— NO, the Torah plays NO PART in saving anybody or keeping anybody saved. He had  several chances to respond with a simple yes or no. He declined and I am gone ....He gave me my answer without knowing it.....smart people know what’s going on.....bye and God bless... 

[Wayne222]

Anyway if anyone reads the new testament it shows we live by faith and not the law.

[Wayne222]

We are to put sin to death in the new man. This is not torah keeping. Its walking in the spirit.

[1to3]

From my own life experience , living by faith in Christ Jesus. When I follow Gods Word Christ Jesus and His ways, I walk in peace and find my rest, When I walk away from Gods Word Christ Jesus and His ways, I loose my peace and my rest.

2 Timothy 3:16 15

From infancy you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. 16All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for instruction, for conviction, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 17so that the man of God may be complete, fully equipped for every good work.

-----------------------------------

Jesus believed that the Old Testament was authoritative, decisive and binding.

That is important for us to understand because many of the progressive Post-Evangelicals like to style themselves as Red Letter Christians; but to state the obvious – to do that, you have to ignore some really important Red Letters. In Matthew 5:19 for example Jesus – in Red Letters, states the following:

whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. (Matthew 5:19 ESV)

Jesus did not commission his people to undo the Old Testament; he faced the devil with Deuteronomy 8:3. He faced the Sadducees with Exodus 3:6. He faced the Pharisees with Psalm 110:1. Jesus clearly operated under the assumption that the whole Old Testament – properly understood – was binding and decisive and to be his follower requires you to do the same.

Jesus believed that the Apostles were speaking on his behalf

Near the end of his earthly ministry Jesus had an important conversation with his disciples. He told them that he would soon die and rise again and ascend into heaven. In preparing them for those events he said:

I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come. He will glorify me, for he will take what is mine and declare it to you. All that the Father has is mine; therefore I said that he will take what is mine and declare it to you. (John 16:12–15 ESV)

Jesus said that he had more to say to his disciples than he had said in his earthly ministry. He also made it clear that after ascending into heaven he would send down the Holy Spirit – the Spirit of Truth – who would take from Jesus and give to the disciples so that they could flesh out the complete revelation of God. J.I. Packer comments on this passage saying:

He had promised the twelve that the Spirit should come to teach them what in His own earthly ministry he had left unsaid, and He kept His promise; so that the apostolic teaching was in reality the complete and final version of His own.[2]

In point of fact there are no Red Letters. There is only the Word of God.

There is what the Father wants to be said as passed on to the Son as passed on through the Spirit as terminating in the Apostles. That’s why Jesus said in Matthew 10:40:

Whoever receives you receives me, and whoever receives me receives him who sent me. (Matthew 10:40 ESV)

There is a line and it stretches back from the Apostles to Jesus to the Father and you accept it all or you reject it all.

You don’t get to have a smaller Bible than Jesus.

Jesus believed that the Old Testament was the Word of God and Jesus believed that through the ministry of the Holy Spirit, the words of the Apostles were the Word of God. And Scripture cannot be broken.

Jesus believed that he was the climax and focus of all of Scripture

In John 5:39 Jesus said:

You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is they that bear witness about me (John 5:39 ESV)

Jesus believed that the entire Old Testament was preparing people for and pointing people towards his own life and ministry.

Why do you think God had you killing pigeons and doves and goats and lambs – why do you think he was doing that? It was because he wanted you to understand that sin leads to death and he wanted to prepare you to recognize and worship me!

Most of the Jews in Jesus’ day didn’t see that, but John the Baptist did. He saw Jesus and with the help of the Holy Spirit he said:  “Behold, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!” (John 1:29 ESV)

John got it! He understood that the whole Old Testament sacrificial system was trying to say three things to a very stubborn people:

1. God is holy.
2. Sin is serious
3. People need a Saviour!

John saw that. He saw the whole sacrificial system landing on Jesus Christ – he saw the whole Old Testament Scripture pointing people and driving people towards Jesus Christ.

It took a while for the disciples of Jesus to get to that same place. Even after the resurrection while walking on the Road To Emmaus, they still hadn’t connected all the dots. Jesus obscured his appearance and came alongside them and gave them a Master’s level course in Christian hermeneutics. Luke 24:27 says: “beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, he interpreted to them in all the Scriptures the things concerning himself” (Luke 24:27 ESV).

He taught them how to read the Old Testament such that it lands climactically on the person and work of Christ. It was a labour and it was a miracle. Luke goes on to say:

Then he opened their minds to understand the Scriptures, and said to them, “Thus it is written, that the Christ should suffer and on the third day rise from the dead, and that repentance for the forgiveness of sins should be proclaimed in his name to all nations, beginning from Jerusalem. (Luke 24:45–47 ESV)

Jesus taught the disciples how to read the Bible such that everything in the Old Testament leads to the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ!

That’s how you read the Bible as a Christian!

That’s how Jesus read the Bible and that is the foundation of the church.

The Apostle Paul said that we Christians:

are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, 20 built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone, 21 in whom the whole structure, being joined together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord. (Ephesians 2:19–21 ESV)

https://ca.thegospelcoalition.org/columns/ad-fontes/jesus-believe-bible/

[Alive]

Much of the scriptures in the NT that folks use to say "if ya don't you will" are talking about going on in Christ after regeneration.

Taking advantage of all that the New Life has for us and an ongoing sanctification. We can be regenerated and not move on. It happens a lot for different reasons. If we don't continually move on, we do suffer loss. In this life and beyond, but we can never lose the 'eternal Life' that we have as a result of the Father 'placing us In Christ.'

We died in him on the cross, we rose in Him and we ascended to Heaven in Him. This is a matter of accomplished history and can't be changed.

There is much more to being a son than regeneration/salvation. Salvation is a progression. As has been said we need to be careful to take all of scripture. There are basic immutable principles and scripture needs to be seen in the light of those things.

 

[Alive]

The power of a 'faction' is that it makes ones feel specialer (more special) than their brethren. I call it speciality.

Pet doctrines can do this. We all need to be careful of these things.

We can push a good thing to become way out of whack.

 

[Steve_S]

9 hours ago, Blood Bought 1953 said:

Your evade the question as all Legalists do.Your non- answer speaks volumes.Please answer yes or no as I was able to do.As a reminder— I gave a resounding “ NO”

Removed from topic.