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Is God a God of grace first? or is grace the exception?


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On 12/7/2019 at 8:04 AM, steve morrow said:

2 TIMOTHY 3:1 this know also that in the last days perilous times shall come --3:2-- for men shall be lovers --OF THEMSELVES--covetous boasters proud blasphemers disobedient to parents unthankful --UNHOLY--3;3 without natural affection trucebreakers false accusers incontinent fierce --- DESPISERS OF THOSE THAT ARE GOOD --- 3:4-- TRAITORS -- heady high-minded lovers of pleasures ---MORE THAN LOVERS OF GOD---3:5--HAVING A FORM OF GODLINESS --- but denying the power thereof ---FROM SUCH TURN AWAY--- 3:6 -- for of this sort they which creep into houses and lead captive silly women laden with sins led away with diverse lusts          *******3:7--ever learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth*******

*******PHILIPPIANS 1:29 for unto you it is given in behalf of CHRIST not only to believe on HIM but also to suffer for HIS sake*******

2 CORINTHIANS 10:3 for though we walk in the flesh we do not war after the flesh --10:4-- for the weapons of our warfare are not carnal but mighty through GOD to the pulling down of strongholds --10:5 ---casting down imaginations--- and every high thing that exalteth itself against ---against the knowledge of GOD--- and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of CHRIST

JUDE 1:17 but beloved remember you the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our LORD JESUS CHRIST --1:18-- how that they told you there should be mockers in the last time who should walk after their own ---UNGODLY LUSTS---

2 PETER 3:3 knowing this first that there shall come in the last days scoffers walking after their ---OWN LUSTS---

JEREMIAH 13:10 this evil people which refuse to hear my words ---which walk in the imagination of their heart--- and walk after other gods to serve them and to worship them shall be even as this girdle ---WHICH IS GOOD FOR NOTHING---

 

LOVING THE LORD JESUS  

All great verses, although I'm a little confused on how some of them tie to God's grace.

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are not all the words mentioned of GODS grace

JOHN 6:63 it is the spirit that quickeneth the flesh profiteth nothing the words that I speak unto you they are spirit and they are life 

HEBREWS 10:29 of how much sorer punishment suppose you shall he be thought worthy who hath trodden under foot THE SON OF GOD and hath counted the blood of the covenant wherewith he was sanctified an unholy thing and hath done despite unto ---the spirit of grace---

CLOSSIANS 1:5 for the hope which is laid up for you in heaven whereof you heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel --1:6-- which is come unto you as it is in all the world and bringeth forth fruit as it does also in you since the day you heard of it and knew the grace of GOD in truth 

ACTS 20:24 but none of these things move me neither count I my life dear unto myself so that I might finish my course with joy and the ministry which I have received of THE LORD JESUS ---to testify the gospel of--- THE GRACE OF GOD

2 PETER 3:18 but grow in grace and in the knowledge of our LORD AND SAVIOUR JESUS CHRIST to HIM be glory both now and forever --- AMEN

hope this is helpful in understanding the truth 

 

LOVING THE LORD JESUS CHRIST

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37 minutes ago, steve morrow said:

are not all the words mentioned of GODS grace

JOHN 6:63 it is the spirit that quickeneth the flesh profiteth nothing the words that I speak unto you they are spirit and they are life 

HEBREWS 10:29 of how much sorer punishment suppose you shall he be thought worthy who hath trodden under foot THE SON OF GOD and hath counted the blood of the covenant wherewith he was sanctified an unholy thing and hath done despite unto ---the spirit of grace---

CLOSSIANS 1:5 for the hope which is laid up for you in heaven whereof you heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel --1:6-- which is come unto you as it is in all the world and bringeth forth fruit as it does also in you since the day you heard of it and knew the grace of GOD in truth 

ACTS 20:24 but none of these things move me neither count I my life dear unto myself so that I might finish my course with joy and the ministry which I have received of THE LORD JESUS ---to testify the gospel of--- THE GRACE OF GOD

2 PETER 3:18 but grow in grace and in the knowledge of our LORD AND SAVIOUR JESUS CHRIST to HIM be glory both now and forever --- AMEN

hope this is helpful in understanding the truth 

 

LOVING THE LORD JESUS CHRIST

All the ones you mention here have the word grace except John 6:63, but I do see there is grace in this verse.

Your other post didn't mention the word grace at all, and I'm having trouble connecting the dots to see where God's grace is in them?

Take for example 2 Pet 3:3 or Jer 13:10, how do you see God's grace in those verses?

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TITUS 2:11 for the grace of GOD that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men

.--2:12--teaching us that ---DENYING UNGODLINESS--- and worldly lusts we should live soberly righteously and godly in this present world 

1 TIMOTHY 6:3 --IF ANY MAN-- teach otherwise and consent not---to wholesome words--- EVEN THE WORDS OF OUR LORD JESUS CHRIT---AND TO THE DOCTRINE --- WHICH IS ACCORDING TO GODLINESS

1 TIMOTHY 6:6 but godliness with contentment is great gain

 

LOVING THE LORD JESUS CHRIST 

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On ‎11‎/‎23‎/‎2019 at 12:39 AM, Isaiah43:25 said:

A pastor I know has recently made the statement that God is a God of grace first. I haven't been able to speak with him about this yet, and that is a somewhat ambiguous statement. He said an author of a book discusses this, but i can't remember what book.

I have several questions I'd like to ask him to clarify what is means, especially the following:

  • What does this mean exactly?
  • What would he be a God of second?
  • What exactly are the implications of this?

As I've been pondering this, I seem to have come to the conclusion that grace is the exception, not the rule

Consider Matthew 7:13-14:  "Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the road that leads to life, and only a few find it." (NIV)

I understand that God has lavished extreme, overwhelming, wonderful, extravagant grace on us by forgiving our sins, you don't need to tell me that. The problem is that the majority of the 7.5 billion people currently living on this planet are destined for hell. And while God does show common grace (God makes the sun rise on the evil and the good, and He sends rain on the just and the unjust - Matt. 5:45), His saving or special grace is not the norm. 

I believe that God is Holy first and foremost, and just in everything that He does.

So my question is:  do you believe God is a God of grace first, or am I off base by concluding that grace is the exception, not the rule?

Hopefully this can be discussed outside of the predestination realm, but maybe that is the difference between these two thoughts. In one, God doesn't pick who is saved and therefore is holding out His grace to everyone hoping they'll receive it. And in the other He has picked who He is going to save which would make judgement the "rule" and grace the "exception". I would prefer to hear some thoughts that are outside of this predestination realm if possible.

Thanks!

Hi Isaiah,

Interesting question. Now I believe God`s grace is based on His being the ultimate Judge. If grace were `first,` without God`s Judgment, then it really would just be licence to do whatever. The underlying foundation is that God judges righteously. And because we have all fallen short of that, we are condemned. However God made a way for us to be righteous through His Son`s sacrifice. Thus God can now pour forth His grace upon those who accept His righteousness through Christ.

There is always a price. Grace may seem `free` or `first,` but it cost our Lord His life.

Marilyn. 

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1 hour ago, steve morrow said:

TITUS 2:11 for the grace of GOD that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men

 

LOVING THE LORD JESUS CHRIST 

Isn't that a lovely verse?

And who is it that has "appeared to all men", who is THE GRACE OF GOD>?

Well, we know that God is Love.   And we know that Grace is a manifestation of Love.  Its a principle part that defines God's love, along with Holiness, and Compassion, and Mercy.

So, the verse says that Grace brings salvation, and this has APPEARED ..

"God was manifested IN THE FLESH".. He has appeared. He has come.  He has lived, died, and rose again.

This is the GRACE that brings SALVATION, that has APPEARED.

This is JESUS.   Jesus IS Grace.

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PHILIPPIANS 2:21 for all seek their own not the things which are JESUS CHRISTS 

JOHN 5:34 but I receive not testimony from man --- but these things --I SAY-- that you might be saved 

2 THESSALONIANS 2:10 and with all deceiveableness of unrighteousness in them that perish because they received not the love of the truth that they might be saved 

LUKE 14:28 for which of you intending to build a tower sitteth not down first and counteth the cost whether he have sufficient to finish it --14:29-- lest haply after he hath laid the foundation and is not able to finish it all that behold it begin to mock him

1 CORINTHIANS 3:9 for we are laborers together with GOD you are GODS husbandry you are GODS building --3:10--according to the grace of GOD which is given unto me as a wise masterbuilder I have laid the foundation and another buildeth thereon but let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon 

ACTS 20:32 and now brethren I commend you to GOD ---AND TO THE WORD OF HIS GRACE--- which is able to build you up and to give you an inheritance among all them which are sanctified 

 

LOVING THE LORD JESUS CHRIST

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GRACE FIRST (Ex.33:13); then we CONTINUE and REMAIN in grace as we obey God's ways (TORAH, Ex.33:13+1Ki.2:3).

Same today:  GRACE (Rom.3:24) and TORAH (Rom.2:13) TOGETHER, for justification.

But grace first (Eph.2:8-9).  THEN Torah (Eph.2:12;2Ti.3:16;1Jn.5:3;Mt.5:19).

blessings...

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2 hours ago, BibleGuy said:

 

Same today:  GRACE (Rom.3:24) and TORAH (Rom.2:13) TOGETHER, for justification.

 

Salvation, isn't Grace + the Law. (Torah)

To teach that it is....is Galatians 1:8.

Justification is by FAITH alone.....its not by faith (Believing) and Torah (Law Keeping)

Romans 3:21:  "" But now the righteousness of God <>without the LAW<> is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;""

JESUS is the "righteousness who is Manifested".....who delivers us from the LAW, and delivers us UNTO and INTO GRACE.

See that "without the Law"?   That is not a mistranslation.  That is the NEW Covenant.   That is ALL that God accepts ........its "The Gift of Righteousness".

---------------------------------

Now Here is the answer to your misconception.

Romans 9:31 :

31 " :But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, <>hath not attained<> to the law of righteousness..."""

The Law of Righteousness is Grace thru Faith.

God said He has given a better covenant , because there is FAULT found in the first.  The first is the TORAH, its the LAW....and the fault that is found is that there is no Law that can give Righteousness.

This is why the Torah, and the Law, can't be used or accepted in the NEW Covenant......The New Covenant, is God as Christ, dying for sin, and giving Righteousness as a Gift.

The Torah, the Law, have no part in this..... as these scriptures explain.. why.

Romans 9:31 :

31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.

Romans 9:32 :

32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone" 

 

So, when you teach Law + Faith, or Torah + Faith, to be SAVED, to be REDEEMED.... you are teaching what is not accepted by God as the "new Covenant".

Vs 32, is Israel's problem to this very day, and its the problem that all legalists have, all heretics have......they are trying to become accepted by Go, by doing WORKS of the Law... or as you define it..."keep the Torah". or as others define it....>"keep the commandments", etc.

Edited by Behold
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2 minutes ago, Behold said:

Salvation, isn't Grace + the Law. (Torah)

To teach this is Galatians 1:8.

Justification is by FAITH alone.....its not by faith (Believing) and Torah (Law Keeping)

Romans 3:21:  "" But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;""

See that "without the Law"?   That is not a mistranslation.  That is the NEW Covenant.   That is ALL that God accepts ........its "The Gift of Righteousness".
Now Here is the answer to your misconception.

Romans 9:31 King James Version (KJV)

31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness...

The Law of Righteousness is Grace Faith.

God said he has given a better covenant , because there is FAULT found in the first.  The first is the TORAH, its the LAW....and the fault that is found is that there is no Law that can give Righteousness.

This is why the Torah, and the Law, can't be used or accepted in the NEW Covenant......The New Covenant, is God as Christ, dying for sin, and giving Righteousness as a Gift.

The Torah, the Law, have no part in this..... as these scriptures explain..

Romans 9:31 :

31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.

Romans 9:32 :

32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

 

So, when you teach Law + Faith, or Torah + Faith, to be SAVED, to be REDEEMED.... you are teaching what is not accepted by God as the "new Covenant".

"Justification is by FAITH alone.....its not by faith (Believing) and Torah (Law Keeping)"

Well, I actually BELIEVE Paul: "...but the doers [fn]of the Law will be justified."  (Rom.2:13)

I actually BELIEVE James: "You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.  (Jas.2:24)

So, it appears you've contradicted Rom.2:13 and Jas.2:24.

 

We can't just pick-and-choose what we like.

Right?

 

blessings...

 

 

 

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