Mystery of Heavenly Rewards

[Sister]

6 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

Sister the three heavens goes like this. The 1st Heaven is our Atmosphere its a Heaven to the birds, it gives us our rain etc. etc. via an atmospheric bio dome. The 2nd heaven of course is the TOTAL Space in the Universe. The 3rd Heaven is not in this universe, its the Heaven that was there before God created this universe, it is not subject to time/space, thus God can be and is eternal. Now there is more than likely another Heaven that hold the full Glory of God also. 

But Paul never went to the 3rd Heaven physically, remember he said I know not whether IN BODY or in SPIRIT, all he knew is he was in Heaven, he was there in Spirit, not bodily, our Sin Flesh can not enter Heaven, 1 Cor. 15 48-52 tells us that. John wasn't in heaven either, physically, but Spiritually he was. 

Paul nor John ever went to Paradise, that is a holing place for the Jews, Jesus told of the gulf between Abraham and some person who had kin who he feared were not in Paradise. Jesus said there is a great gulf. It could be under the earth for all I know, but its not in Heaven. Jesus went into the ground for three days, so if he first day was in Paradise {you will be in Paradise with me THIS DAY} then its probably on earth, Jesus also went to the graves it says to  preach unto the Spirits. That may be the exact same thing told in a different way. The Christians all ARISE from our graves, so I assume the Spirits of the Jews stay on earth also. 

 

Hi Revelation Man

There is nothing in the bible that pinpoints where the third heaven is.  All I have seen is interpretations of where man thinks it might be.  The bible does not state that the third heaven is the highest heaven.  I proved to Marilyn that the third heaven, called paradise, could not be the highest heaven, because Jesus went there for three days when he died.  Whilst in paradise, where he told the thief he was going "today", we find out later that Jesus had not yet ascended to the Father, as he told Mary.  This proof, crystal clear, of Jesus' words proves that paradise/the third heaven is not the highest heaven.  Now it can only mean one thing.  Paradise/the third heaven is a holding bay for the dead.  Jesus died, but three days later he rose from the dead.  Is that not the basis of our faith?  That Christ died and was raised three days later, conquering death?

Now Marilyn accuses me of heresy - for laying out a fact that anyone can check.  The common doctrine taught in the churches is that when we die, we go straight to heaven.  I don't agree with this.  If Jesus had not seen the Father during his three days in the grave, had not yet ascended until after Mary saw him, then why teach that we go straight to heaven, when it's obvious paradise/3rd heaven is not heaven itself, but beneath it.

The resurrection happens on the appointed day.  We were told in the scriptures not to be afraid of death, but everyone seems to be refusing to accept death.  Death is not forever.  It's a part of the process.  Our day will come when death will be conquered in us also, at the resurrection of the saints.   When we die, our souls are held in paradise, not hell.  It's destined for a better place, a higher state.  The reward is coming with Jesus at his return.  He is bringing that reward with him.

 

 

[Revelation Man]

12 hours ago, Sister said:

Hi Revelation Man

There is nothing in the bible that pinpoints where the third heaven is.  All I have seen is interpretations of where man thinks it might be.  The bible does not state that the third heaven is the highest heaven.  I proved to Marilyn that the third heaven, called paradise, could not be the highest heaven, because Jesus went there for three days when he died.  Whilst in paradise, where he told the thief he was going "today", we find out later that Jesus had not yet ascended to the Father, as he told Mary.  This proof, crystal clear, of Jesus' words proves that paradise/the third heaven is not the highest heaven.  Now it can only mean one thing.  Paradise/the third heaven is a holding bay for the dead.  Jesus died, but three days later he rose from the dead.  Is that not the basis of our faith?  That Christ died and was raised three days later, conquering death?

Now Marilyn accuses me of heresy - for laying out a fact that anyone can check.  The common doctrine taught in the churches is that when we die, we go straight to heaven.  I don't agree with this.  If Jesus had not seen the Father during his three days in the grave, had not yet ascended until after Mary saw him, then why teach that we go straight to heaven, when it's obvious paradise/3rd heaven is not heaven itself, but beneath it.

The resurrection happens on the appointed day.  We were told in the scriptures not to be afraid of death, but everyone seems to be refusing to accept death.  Death is not forever.  It's a part of the process.  Our day will come when death will be conquered in us also, at the resurrection of the saints.   When we die, our souls are held in paradise, not hell.  It's destined for a better place, a higher state.  The reward is coming with Jesus at his return.  He is bringing that reward with him.

 

 

Correct, which is why I don't call Paradise Heaven, I think its on earth, all Heavens means the Sky above.  So I think Paradise is on earth, those Dead in Christ arise from the graves to go be with the Lord at the rapture. We know the first heaven is our biosphere, we see it spoken of in Genesis 1. God calls it a firmament, the first Heaven he divided the waters from the waters, our atmosphere, or biosphere. In the 2nd Heaven in verse 14 God divided the lights from the darkness [basically the stars started forming at the 400 million year mark}. In the 3rd Heaven it seems to me Paul says Jesus taught him or angels, but he was there in the Spirit, not in person. No man has seen the Throne Room. So I agree with you. I really haven't studied this in depth, but because I wrote an Exegesis on Gen. chapter 1 and how the universe is 13.7 billion years old and the first day lasted 9.2 billion years I had to figure out what all the different Heavens were. I am no expert on it for sure.

Are we sure Paradise is the 3rd Heaven ? I'd have to research it, I though paradise was on earth. I wouldn't worry about what others think too much sister. We don't go straight to Heaven, that is FOR SURE, it wouldn't be the only thing I disagree with her on, usually if its too much static I just let it rest. Most of the time they can't shake my scriptures so I lose those in disagreement, all except Iamlamad, he will debate a wall, LOL. 

We don't go straight to Heaven, Daniel 12 would tell anyone that we sleep until the very end. The Church until the Rapture, then we go marry the Lamb in Heaven, the Jews, who are already married to God arise at the very end, like Daniel 12 says..............

 

Dan. 12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. 2 And many of them that SLEEP in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

When is the TIME OF TROUBLE ? The 70th week..........so you are correct, of course. The Jews will awake for Judgment at the VERY END. Scriptures don't lie. People just get confused sister. Its all good. God Bless.

Edited December 3, 2019 by Revelation Man

[Sister]

Thank you Revelation Man for your thoughts on this.

I am glad you know that we don't go straight to heaven when we die. 

 

4 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

Are we sure Paradise is the 3rd Heaven ? Id have to research it, I though paradise was on earth.

We first heard about paradise here;

 Luke 23:43   And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.
 

Then we learned here that paradise is also called the third heaven;

 2 Corinthians 12:2   I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven.

2 Corinthians 12:3   And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;)

2 Corinthians 12:4   How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Revelation Man]

7 hours ago, Sister said:

Thank you Revelation Man for your thoughts on this.

I am glad you know that we don't go straight to heaven when we die. 

 

We first heard about paradise here;

 Luke 23:43   And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.
 

Then we learned here that paradise is also called the third heaven;

 2 Corinthians 12:2   I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven.

2 Corinthians 12:3   And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;)

2 Corinthians 12:4   How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks for the scripture references, that makes it easy for me to go to my Hebrew and in this case Greek study Bible link which has all the root words and a link to Strong's and others, which I use quite frequently. 

 

Luke  23:43 And 2532 Iesus 2424 said 2036 z5627 vnto him, 846 Uerily, 281 I say 3004 z5719 vnto thee, 4671 to day 4594 shalt thou be 2071 z5704 with 3326 me 1700 in 1722  Paradise. 3857.

 

#3857 παράδεισος paradeisos {par-ad'-i-sos} of Oriental origin, cf H6508; TDNT - 5:765,777; n m

—Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)

1) among the Persians a grand enclosure or preserve, hunting ground, park, shady and well watered, in which wild animals, were kept for the hunt; it was enclosed by walls and furnished with towers for the hunters

2) a garden, pleasure ground 2a) grove, park

3) the part of Hades which was thought by the later Jews to be the abode of the souls of pious until the resurrection: but some understand this to be a heavenly paradise { Herein lies the CRUX of the issue, the Jews seemed to think it was an earthly abode in the ground for the pious souls to rest, meanwhile as the BELOW Shows the Christians seemed to think it was a Heavenly abode. Seeing as we arise from the graves to go be with the Lord at the Last Trump, I wonder why that would be the case if we were already in Heaven ? Now I gotta check out the 2 Cor 12 verses}

4) the upper regions of the heavens. According to the early church Fathers, the paradise in which our first parents dwelt before the fall still exists, neither on the earth or in the heavens, but above and beyond the world

—Thayer's (New Testament Greek-English Lexicon)

Its the exact same word, the Jews seemed to think it was a part of hades/sheol/the grave/a holding place for pious souls. Paul called it a place in Heaven, maybe its both, maybe where Paul went to is the FUTURE PARADISE where we go to be with the Jesus at but the current Paradise is a holding place on earth, then when Jesus calls we zoom up from the graves to go be with the Lord. That would be my best guess.

Edited December 3, 2019 by Revelation Man