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Mystery of Heavenly Rewards

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2 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi Sister,I think you would hear from God sometimes, and I would hear from God sometimes, but that does not make our answers truth.

That's right, because even someone in their delusion could think they heard from God.

After I posted my answer to you, I regretted telling you that I prayed and asked for him to show me something more solid in his Word, because I knew this was going to be attacked.  Just trying to show you that when settling a matter, we have to go back to the drawing board.  That's what I claim the spirit led me to do.  You said that the 3rd heaven was the highest heaven.  You gave me some body else's diagram of how they interpret it.  You are attracted to their interpretation, I am not.  I want facts, not presumptions.

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Truth is God`s word and that is what we should be discussing.

That's right.  That's why I gave you those scriptures, so we can look at them again.

 

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To try and back up your answer by saying you heard from God and thus this is the right answer is emotive. Do we all hear from God rightly all the time? No. It is God`s word that is truth not our thoughts and imaginations and opinions. So let`s look at God`s word otherwise we cannot have a truth seeking discussion.

See my answer above.

If you ask, and are led, and by taking a look again with fresh eyes, you suddenly see the connection that 1 + 1 = 2, which cannot be disputed, then you have received.  When we receive, it doesn't come from us, but was given to us to share amongst all.


 

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Paradise - Gk. word `paradeisis` meaning a place of future happiness.

Paradise - Abraham`s bosom meaning faith in God. OT saints were kept by God till the Lord took them to the General Assembly. This is where Paul was `caught UP` to.

 

Paul was "caught up" into the spirit realm.

 

Now, are going to go back and look at those scriptures again or dance around all the other scriptures when the answer is exactly here?

 

Luke 23:43   And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.

Jesus died that day.  He had not yet been to see the Father.  We know this for sure, because when he rose three days later - he said this to Mary;

 John 20:17   Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

For the love of the truth, please explain?

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Hi Sister,

I wasn`t attacking you otherwise the moderators would admonish me. I was pointing out that we can all say we`ve heard from the Lord to back up our answer. That is not proof of being right. God`s word stands alone.

We both agree that the thief and the Lord went to Paradise. Then we know that the Lord Jesus arose and took the OT saints to the General Assembly. The holding place, being kept by God, is not where it was anymore. The OT saints are with the Lord in glory. Scripture calls that Paradise.

BTW that is my diagram not others.

I think you need to be careful of your language here - `attack, presumptions, dance around`. These words are not speaking the truth in love, but close to putting someone down.  

 

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1 hour ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi Sister,

I wasn`t attacking you otherwise the moderators would admonish me. I was pointing out that we can all say we`ve heard from the Lord to back up our answer. That is not proof of being right. God`s word stands alone.

Hi Marilyn.

We are Aussies.  Aussies are very blunt people, down to earth.  We call it as it is.  I have been on these forums long enough to know that somebody will pick something personal you might you say, and make a big deal out of that instead of what the scripture says for itself.  So just forget I prayed and asked the Lord for help, and what you replied, and what I replied to that, and instead please concentrate on those scriptures.  By dancing around all the other scriptures I mean just concentrate on Luke 23:43 and John 20:17 because that is the proof in the pudding I am presenting.

 

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BTW that is my diagram not others.

Ok.  Thanks.  Sorry.  I don't agree with it.  It doesn't say in the scriptures that the third heaven is the highest level where God's throne is.

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I think you need to be careful of your language here - `attack, presumptions, dance around`. These words are not speaking the truth in love, but close to putting someone down.  

Sorry, I am frustrated that's all.  To me it's real clear what the scriptures are telling us.  In fact it's so plain and simple, that I don't know why I didn't see it before.

Edited by Sister

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We both agree that the thief and the Lord went to Paradise. Then we know that the Lord Jesus arose and took the OT saints to the General Assembly. The holding place, being kept by God, is not where it was anymore. The OT saints are with the Lord in glory. Scripture calls that Paradise.

Hi Marilyn

I forgot to answer this quote this before.  Please don't let it distract from those other scriptures for now.  Please answer this reply after you reply to my first request, and take your time.

 

Yes, we both agree that the thief and the Lord went to paradise - that same day.  They both died.

Yes, and because Jesus is the pre-eminence of everything, ..."the first", we know that it is impossible that any soul was being "held" in paradise before he got there, so naturally, Christ opened that door.

Jesus was in paradise for only 3 days.  He is not there anymore because he is risen.  Paradise is a spiritual place for the dead. Christ is now alive. He is above that state or that place.   Millions will be in paradise right now, and millions more to come in.  Those in paradise are still dead awaiting their resurrection when all will meet the Lord in the air. ...in the clouds to be exact, inside the earth.  They have already been sorted.

 

None in paradise has been glorified with Christ, because they have not conquered death yet.  That day is reserved for his 2 Coming when life is put back into them. All will glory together because the Lamb of God converted their souls to righteousness. Until then, they all are asleep in the land of the dead,...preserved with their names written in heaven (recorded in the book of life) and not stored in the land of the dead and damned who are to face judgement.

 

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 Hebrews 12:22   But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,

  Hebrews 12:23   To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,

Mount Sion is the kingdom of God.  This is speaking to the living who come to this kingdom for guidance, and not the kingdom of the world.  Our kingdom is a heavenly kingdom, it's got different rules and instructions compared to this world.  This is what we are called into and should be dwelling in, ...this kingdom of righteousness which comes from above.  It's speaking to the living who abide in the rules of this kingdom, who have entered it spiritually.  It's ruled from heaven, but we are here on earth being instructed.

We have also come to "the general assembly" and "church" of "the firstborn"  which are "written" in heaven.  We have come to the "church" of this kingdom.  It's not a church made of brick and stone, but the church containing the truth. 

The dead are not in heaven already, but their names are recorded there.  There's a big difference.  We also enter into that kingdom where the spirits (the souls) of just men are made perfect", ...meaning they are converted, made holy.   That's the kingdom we are called into.  It's not saying we are in heaven already, but that our names are written in heaven.  We have to be patient, our day is coming.  We will get there.  The dead know nothing right now.

 

 

 

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21 hours ago, Sister said:

Hi Marilyn.

We are Aussies.  Aussies are very blunt people, down to earth.  We call it as it is.  I have been on these forums long enough to know that somebody will pick something personal you might you say, and make a big deal out of that instead of what the scripture says for itself. 

 

Hi Sister,

I understand that people do that in discussions. However it is important to highlight this great error that we can all fall into.  To think that by saying that we heard from God and thus our answer is the correct one, puts us ABOVE God`s word. It elevates our ability to hear God as the final proof. We all must bow to God`s word and NOT try and validate our answer by saying ...Oh, I sought God long and hard, etc etc. That is emotive.

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21 hours ago, Sister said:

Hi Marilyn.

By dancing around all the other scriptures I mean just concentrate on Luke 23:43 and John 20:17 because that is the proof in the pudding I am presenting.

 

Hi Sister,

I have NOT been dancing around scriptures. I have just looked back to see what scriptures I have quoted.

1. First I replied to YOUR scriptures.

2. Then I brought in scriptures to show `over` not `on` the earth.

3. Finally I quoted Hebrews 12 where the OT saints are now in the heavenly paradise, & not the earthly one. (Eph. 4: 9)

So NO dance there sister.

Luke 23: 43 we both agree is the earthly paradise. (lower parts of the earth. Eph. 4: 9)

John 20: 17 we also both agree that Jesus ascended to the Father.

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21 hours ago, Sister said:

Hi Marilyn

Paradise is a spiritual place for the dead. Christ is now alive. He is above that state or that place.   Millions will be in paradise right now, and millions more to come in.  Those in paradise are still dead awaiting their resurrection when all will meet the Lord in the air. ...in the clouds to be exact, inside the earth.  They have already been sorted.

None in paradise has been glorified with Christ, because they have not conquered death yet.  That day is reserved for his 2 Coming when life is put back into them. All will glory together because the Lamb of God converted their souls to righteousness. Until then, they all are asleep in the land of the dead,...preserved with their names written in heaven (recorded in the book of life) and not stored in the land of the dead and damned who are to face judgement.

 

Hi Sister,

That is heresy, meaning it is not the basis of Christian doctrine.

Jesus conquered death and hell.

`Inasmuch then as the children have partaken of flesh and blood, He (Christ) Himself likewise shared in the same, that through death he might destroy him who has the power of death, that is the devil, and RELEASE THOSE who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.` (Heb. 2: 14 & 15)

`I (Christ) am He who lives, and was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore. Amen. And I have the keys of hades and of Death. `(Rev. 1: 18)

 

The former Paradise (lower parts of the earth. Eph. 4:9) is no more. No believer, of the Body of Christ or OT saints are there. Heresy.

`We are confident, yes well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be PRESENT WITH THE LORD.` (2 Cor. 5: 8)

`For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so GOD WILL BRING WITH HIM THOSE WHO SLEEP IN JESUS.` (1 Thess. 4: 14)

  • Praise God! 1

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12 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi Sister,

I have NOT been dancing around scriptures. I have just looked back to see what scriptures I have quoted.

1. First I replied to YOUR scriptures.

 

Ok, so please Marilyn, let me remind you what this is all about again.  You said this;
 

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Thus your statement as you have underlined, I believe from scripture is wrong. We, the Body of Christ have NOT been promised an earthly inheritance or that the Lord will rule physically ON the earth.

Do you have scriptures for that view?

 

 

Yes, you wanted proof. 

I gave you this proof;

 Revelation 5:10   And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

Well actually, Christ and the saints will rule on and over the earth....for a thousand years.  If you are still in doubt, I can give another scripture;

Matthew 5:5   Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.

Has Christ not inherited the earth also? 

After the 1000 years, this earth as we know it will be destroyed and renewed, so will heaven.  At the resurrection of the saints we get to inherit everything as is, and what's to come. 

In case you misunderstand where I am coming from.  It's not the earth we are attached to, it's the Kingdom of God and his will.  His will is to give the nations a 1000 years of rest from the enemy.  During this time they must be taught.  God has given that job to Israel to spread the truth.  Israel will be instructed by Christ and the saints.  The saints were quickened to "spirit" at the resurrection.  They will be working along side Christ.  They will be like the angels who are invisible or can materialise.  They will teach, lead, guide, organise, oversee, report, protect...  doing exactly what God's angels are instructed to do now - but God's holy angels have their headquarters in heaven and they were are only servants and created for that purpose. They were never promised to rule with Christ or given the same authority as the saints.  If we will be one with Christ, then doesn't it make sense that we can instruct them also, and deal with them personally?  It's going to be a different era. Something completely different.  We take over and clean up what man has messed up.  Isn't that a wonderful privilege, to be in training now for this?  all for Christ's glory?

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2. Then I brought in scriptures to show `over` not `on` the earth.

You mean these scriptures?

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Hi Sister,

IN HEAVEN

Our inheritance, our hope, our place, our citizenship, all of which are IN HEAVEN.

 `...to an inheritance incorruptible and undefiled and that does not fade away, reserved in heaven for you.` (1 Peter 1: 4 )

` ...because of the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, of which you heard before in the word of truth..`(Col. 1: 5)

` ...and raised us up together and made to sit in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus.`(Eph. 2: 6)

` For our citizenship is in heaven, from which we also eagerly await for the saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ.` (Phil. 3: 20)

Thus Rev. 5: 10 is NOT on, but OVER the earth.

 

"an inheritance Reserved in heaven"

"laid up for you in heaven"

"to sit in the heavenly places"

"our citizenship is in heaven"

Everything is from above.  That doesn't prove to me that we will not reign on the earth with Christ.

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3. Finally I quoted Hebrews 12 where the OT saints are now in the heavenly paradise, & not the earthly one. (Eph. 4: 9)

So NO dance there sister.

 

Hebrews 12:22   But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
 

Do you think that this is speaking to the dead? 

I think this is speaking to the living.  This is encouragement for us.

We are in that same kingdom now.  Dwelling in it spiritually.  It's not a worldly kingdom that we have entered into with devils, wicked men & lies, but a heavenly one with a different host.

You quoted this;

 Ephesians 4:9   (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?

 Ephesians 4:10   He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)

When did Christ ascend?  Did he ascend whilst he was in paradise?

 

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Luke 23: 43 we both agree is the earthly paradise. (lower parts of the earth. Eph. 4: 9)

Yes, I would like to elaborate a little.   All go to the lower parts of the earth when we die.  It's the lowest state, because death belongs down there.  But even in death, our souls are sorted.  One is preserved for judgement, and the other preserved for the resurrection.  Paradise is reserved for the resurrection and is a higher place.  It's still a place for the dead, but they wont be there forever.  When we ascend, we go up.  You have to be down here to ascend, ...so paradise/third heaven is not the highest heaven.

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John 20: 17 we also both agree that Jesus ascended to the Father.

Yes, we both agree, and I am sure you will agree now that Christ did not ascend whilst he was in paradise, but after he rose and saw Mary,... therefore paradise/3rd heaven is not the highest heaven and to be blunt, we are covering two topics now.  Intermixing the two.

 

 

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On 11/30/2019 at 11:56 PM, Marilyn C said:

Hi Sister,

I wasn`t attacking you otherwise the moderators would admonish me. I was pointing out that we can all say we`ve heard from the Lord to back up our answer. That is not proof of being right. God`s word stands alone.

We both agree that the thief and the Lord went to Paradise. Then we know that the Lord Jesus arose and took the OT saints to the General Assembly. The holding place, being kept by God, is not where it was anymore. The OT saints are with the Lord in glory. Scripture calls that Paradise.

BTW that is my diagram not others.

I think you need to be careful of your language here - `attack, presumptions, dance around`. These words are not speaking the truth in love, but close to putting someone down.  

 

Daniel is told by Gabriel they will be RAISED UP and stand in their place, when Micheal Stands Up and then the Saints of old will be raised up.

 Dan. 12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. 2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

13 But go thou thy way till the end be: for thou shalt rest, and stand in thy lot at the end of the days.

The Jews are raised at the end after the Second Coming, they are already married unto God. The Dead in Christ are raised at the Rapture, we who are alive go to be with the Lord at the same time, we lose our sin flesh and go as Spirit Men. We thus Marry the Lamb in Heaven, then return with Jesus. The 144,000 which I say is the 1/3 of the Jews who repent, will be rescued by Jesus, thus it shows them on Mt Zion with Jesus in ch. 14 verse 1, it shows the Rapture in verse 14, which happened earlier of course, and it shows the Wicked Tares in verses 18-20. So we have the Wheat in verse 1, the Tares in verses 18-20 and the Rapture is shown in a sorta Flash Back or Soliloquy of sorts. 

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On 11/30/2019 at 11:44 PM, Sister said:

That's right, because even someone in their delusion could think they heard from God.

After I posted my answer to you, I regretted telling you that I prayed and asked for him to show me something more solid in his Word, because I knew this was going to be attacked.  Just trying to show you that when settling a matter, we have to go back to the drawing board.  That's what I claim the spirit led me to do.  You said that the 3rd heaven was the highest heaven.  You gave me some body else's diagram of how they interpret it.  You are attracted to their interpretation, I am not.  I want facts, not presumptions.

Sister the three heavens goes like this. The 1st Heaven is our Atmosphere its a Heaven to the birds, it gives us our rain etc. etc. via an atmospheric bio dome. The 2nd heaven of course is the TOTAL Space in the Universe. The 3rd Heaven is not in this universe, its the Heaven that was there before God created this universe, it is not subject to time/space, thus God can be and is eternal. Now there is more than likely another Heaven that hold the full Glory of God also. 

But Paul never went to the 3rd Heaven physically, remember he said I know not whether IN BODY or in SPIRIT, all he knew is he was in Heaven, he was there in Spirit, not bodily, our Sin Flesh can not enter Heaven, 1 Cor. 15 48-52 tells us that. John wasn't in heaven either, physically, but Spiritually he was. 

Paul nor John ever went to Paradise, that is a holing place for the Jews, Jesus told of the gulf between Abraham and some person who had kin who he feared were not in Paradise. Jesus said there is a great gulf. It could be under the earth for all I know, but its not in Heaven. Jesus went into the ground for three days, so if he first day was in Paradise {you will be in Paradise with me THIS DAY} then its probably on earth, Jesus also went to the graves it says to  preach unto the Spirits. That may be the exact same thing told in a different way. The Christians all ARISE from our graves, so I assume the Spirits of the Jews stay on earth also. 

 

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