An Interesting Challenge

[Michael37]

14 hours ago, maryjayne said:

do you doubt Autism exists and is real? What study and training have you done in talking with people with Autism?

Is this the way you see people with Autism?

 

I hope you are not meaning people with Autism. Autism is a processing disorder, due to developmental changes in brain wiring from conception. This has been demonstrated during brain scans of people with Autism as against those with the usual wiring.

They are NOT evil, more carnal than anyone else, lacking in the ability for self restraint or any of the other vile epitaphs you are flinging around. It is a PROCESSING difference. Each person has their own character and personality within themselves just like anyone else. Only the way they process information and especially emotion, is different.

I trust you are aware that she has a different 'language' and way of understanding verbal interaction, plus is unable to process non-verbal communication accurately herself. And also cannot put herself in anothers shoes emotionally. I am interested in how you are going to communicate with her.

How about teaching those other ladies that she has a processing difficulty and they have to talk her language, as she is incapable, due to brain differences, of understanding theirs, just as we would with someone from another country who was bling to visual cues, deaf the inflection and tone, and cannot learn our language?

Its a disability, not a choice, to be Autistic. She is not the problem, those trying to make her communicate in their way, and refusing to take on board her limitations are the problem. Empathy and compassion from those ladies will help in this situation. Not getting you to give her a talking to, becasue she will still be unable to comprehend anything except that she has somehow done wrong. 

We must not, and should not harm those with disabilities. You wouldnt expect her to walk if she had no legs, would you? Neither should you expect her to understand concepts her brain is not wired to accept.

Hi maryjayne.

I'm not an expert or a professional in the field of autism, but a door of ministry in this area was opened for me by the Holy Spirit as follows:

1. Immediate and extended family members with aspects of Autism, along with Retardation, Schizophrenia, Bipolar, and Borderline, to be specific.

2. Ekklesia members with clinically diagnosed Autism, including Asperger Syndrome.

3. Large house next door leased by Spectrum Care NZ (links to their website) to care for Intellectually Disabled persons with Autism.

4. Asperger Society literature and recommended reading plus personal tuition from an Asperger Society President who retained my services for the best part of a decade. 

Please Note: Some people of my acquaintance that fit in these categories do not like to be referred to as having a "disorder" , a "disease", or a "syndrome", preferring instead that the word "condition" be used. As for explanations as to why people have such abnormalities I do give the fall of Creation caused by the temptation of Satan leading to the disobedience of Adam as the reason, but be assured I do not label those afflicted as evil.  

OTHER conditions which a person may have, (INSTEAD of Asperger Syndrome or Autism; or, in some cases, AS WELL AS Asperger Syndrome or Autism) include:

• Dyslexia;
• ADD / ADHD (Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder);
• Anxiety Disorder;
• Depression;
• Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder;
• Tourette’s Syndrome (featuring involuntary body movements and/or utterances);
• Social Phobia;
• Agoraphobia;
• Schizophrenia;
• Bipolar Disorder (formerly called “Manic Depression”);
• Borderline Personality Disorder;
• Post Traumatic Stress Disorder;
• Epilepsy (perhaps a variety of epilepsy in which the person has mild, less noticeable seizures, but which still affect the person’s ability to function);
• [and I know there will be other possibilities also].

[Michael37]

4 hours ago, Isaiah53NIV said:

Hello Michael37,

Considering this statement can be applied to typically developing children, teenagers, young adults, and even adults as well, there really is no need to single out a specific group of people, right? How about- everyone should receive sympathy, empathy and support (when appropriate, but people) also need a firm hand of authority and discipline at times. 

 

I don't disagree with your wording and logic, Isaiah53NIV

I am not painting everyone with the same brush but there is a misconception among some folk that anything goes where those with disabilities or disorders or syndromes or conditions etc are concerned.

If you've got Asperger Syndrome and I show you friendship when you join our fellowship for the first time which makes you look for me the next time to sit with me, and the next time, and the next time, and I can't help noticing that you bring a very unpleasant odour with you, I'm going to adress the matter with you.

Something like this has actually happened to me, with a schizoid and slightly Asperger's man I had befriended in our youth and who was now some years later in attendance at the same meetings as me, so finally a few hours before our weekly meeting I phoned this man and told him I was calling to address his personal hygiene issues. When I discovered this somewhat overweight man in his 50's who lived alone but was under Mental Health Services supervision, only possessed three shirts, and that he was in the habit of wearing the same one four or five days in a row without washing it, I told him I was willing to buy him more shirts so he could wear a clean one everyday. Along with this I advised him that if he came to meetings unwashed and wearing clothes that smelled bad he was not to sit with me. I am happy to say he remedied the situation and we are still friends. I also restrict the hours and frequency of his calls and visits to my home as he otherwise thinks anytime day or night is fair game.    

[Michael37]

21 minutes ago, maryjayne said:

Read it again. He is going to talk to the autistic lady about her behaviour.

Unless the post has been edited after some replies.

He also expressed negative views on the autistic lady, wrongly.

Hence the replies.

No, maryjayne. You are wrong. I already have a blossoming realtionship with the lady in question so have no issue with her myself and did not say I was going to talk to her about her behaviour. Why have you invented this?

The post where the matter was raised has not been edited for meaning and I am going to ask you to please moderate your tone towards me to one less adversarial and accusative. Remember 1 Corinthians 13.

[Justin Adams]

10 hours ago, DustyRoad said:

I avoid them since they don't understand much (they're not exactly sure how some of those pills work but they're good money). I would turn to my brothers and sisters but most are scarcely different than those who call us toxic and too much to handle. 

A good deal of the problems are the new ideas by psycho-heresies' inventions of new classifications that apply labels to everyone that only makes most problems worse. They do NOT use spiritual criterion just the original pagan ideas of Freud and Jung. Psycho-Heresy is a good publication to read. Shrinkism has taken over most believer's language in one form or another and of course is loved by the godless state. 

We should not even use the terms of these anti-Christ organizations - but most churches seem to be in bed with them and glibly use their terminology to describe a person or persons made in God's Image. They do NOT bring clarity to the situation but confusion - and we know the source of that, don't we?? 

[Steve_S]

Please remember to keep it civil and not make unmerited accusations. If you feel someone else is out of line, please report it rather than attempting to handle it yourself in the thread.

[David IoW]

On 12/2/2019 at 10:36 AM, Michael37 said:

Thanks for your reply Sonshine. I'm fine with backing off. I have learned the hard way that it is sometimes necessary.

I think I have may erred on the side of masochism with some difficult relationships in certain past congregations in which I was embedded.  

I empathise with you brother.

"In him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of Him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will." (Eph. 1;11) and "And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose." (Ro 8;28).

We must understand that Father's plan is perfect and He has a reason for everything and that He deals with each of us at a personal level. Over the years I have experienced the despising and rejection of men which I expect as part of the fellowship of Christ's sufferings. "But rejoice inasmuch as you participate in the sufferings of Christ, so that you may be overjoyed when his glory is revealed." (1 Peter 4;13).

I propose that this will entail emotional suffering apart from the physical, consider grief for instance. You will probably find that the source of this suffering is someone close, or even near and dear, to you. My testimony involves being suddenly told on a number of occasions by folk who have been ( and still are!) very close and dear to me that they no longer wished to continue in fellowship with me. These were all professing Christians. No reason or explanation was ever given.

I have been around a long time and have acquired a few gems of wisdom, (one of my reasons for becoming part of  this ministry was to have opportunities to share them) so here goes:- I have learnt that in the midst of any trial to ignore the actual circumstances and personalities involved and enquire of our Father "Father what are you trying to teach me in the midst of these circumstances?" on the basis of the scriptures quoted above.

The answer following one heart-rending incident was "I am teaching you about grace!"

Another relevant truth is the need to have the mind of Christ,"The person with the Spirit makes judgments about all things, but such a person is not subject to merely human judgments, for, "Who has known the mind of the Lord so as to instruct him?" But we have the mind of Christ." (1 Cor 2;16) The mind of Christ involves being aware of the Father's will! "By myself I can do nothing; I judge only as I hear, and my judgment is just, for I seek not to please myself but him who sent me." (John 5;39). It is vital for us to understand what the Father's will is for us as individuals and to act on it. Even if it involves severed relationships.

If you would like me to share my thoughts on having the mind of Christ just let me know.

Shalom and agapé

[Michael37]

9 hours ago, David IoW said:

I empathise with you brother.

"In him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of Him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will." (Eph. 1;11) and "And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose." (Ro 8;28).

We must understand that Father's plan is perfect and He has a reason for everything and that He deals with each of us at a personal level. Over the years I have experienced the despising and rejection of men which I expect as part of the fellowship of Christ's sufferings. "But rejoice inasmuch as you participate in the sufferings of Christ, so that you may be overjoyed when his glory is revealed." (1 Peter 4;13).

I propose that this will entail emotional suffering apart from the physical, consider grief for instance. You will probably find that the source of this suffering is someone close, or even near and dear, to you. My testimony involves being suddenly told on a number of occasions by folk who have been ( and still are!) very close and dear to me that they no longer wished to continue in fellowship with me. These were all professing Christians. No reason or explanation was ever given.

I have been around a long time and have acquired a few gems of wisdom, (one of my reasons for becoming part of  this ministry was to have opportunities to share them) so here goes:- I have learnt that in the midst of any trial to ignore the actual circumstances and personalities involved and enquire of our Father "Father what are you trying to teach me in the midst of these circumstances?" on the basis of the scriptures quoted above.

The answer following one heart-rending incident was "I am teaching you about grace!"

Another relevant truth is the need to have the mind of Christ,"The person with the Spirit makes judgments about all things, but such a person is not subject to merely human judgments, for, "Who has known the mind of the Lord so as to instruct him?" But we have the mind of Christ." (1 Cor 2;16) The mind of Christ involves being aware of the Father's will! "By myself I can do nothing; I judge only as I hear, and my judgment is just, for I seek not to please myself but him who sent me." (John 5;39). It is vital for us to understand what the Father's will is for us as individuals and to act on it. Even if it involves severed relationships.

If you would like me to share my thoughts on having the mind of Christ just let me know.

Shalom and agapé

Thankyou for your input on this topic, David IoW. It is gold to me. You write very well, as do many on the forums, and it is alright for me to give you your due on this without it being an insult to those who do not write well. We each have differing gifts and talents. What one of my friends lacks in empathy he makes up for in generosity, and so the challenge is to forgive those who trespass against us in some way, and to handle our relationships in ways that glorify God.

I have never set myself up as a recognised counsellor, or mental health practitioner, as was somehow misconstrued in earlier discussions, and the truth is that although I have studied tertiary level psychology to gain an understanding of its principles, and have ready access to all that psychology as a discipline offers, I remain committed to serving my fellow believers in Christ as a listening ear, a caring heart, and a helping pair of hands. To this end I find myself repeatedly sought after by those who have need of comfort, encouragement, assistance, attention, and yes, the biggie...SPIRITUAL GUIDANCE and CORRECTION. 

We Christians tend to be somewhat migratory in our patterns of fellowship, so when those who have sought my input and services move on, withdraw from fellowship, or sever the relationship in some customised way, I know the Lord will bring others to me soon enough. 

By all means do share your thoughts on having the mind of Christ, David IoW. This thread may be a suitable place for that or you could start your own one for it.

Blessings from Michael37.

[David IoW]

Hello again Michael. Thank you for your response, I shall offer some prayer regarding the starting of another topic; I only do what I see the father doing, anything done in the flesh is filthy rags. Keep track though, I feel that this might well be an incentive via the auspices of the Holy Spirit.

I think, to encourage you further with regard to your dilemma? 

The person with the Spirit makes judgments about all things, but such a person is not subject to merely human judgments, for, "Who has known the mind of the Lord so as to instruct him?" But we have the mind of Christ. (1 Cor 2;15) I am certain that both of us are spiritual persons and led by Him, else we would not be here. I prefer to the translation 'assesses and evaluates' to 'judgement', other translators use 'appraises'. Anyway the essenece of it is (IMHO) that we have an obligation to appraise everything, starting with our own behaviour then moving on to the question of 'fruit-bearing' with regard to others. "But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law." (Gal 5;22) N.B. love (agapé) is singular; like an apple is singular but incorporates peel, flesh, juice, pips etc.etc. 

However there are occasions when we are required to separate ourselves from others with due regard to the overriding principle of agapé, 1 cor chapter 4 for example. From my own testimony, partly shared already with you, even though I considered the behaviour of one of the 'offenders' as treacherous, agapé is, at least on my part, is cardinal. I must re-quote Ephesians 1;11 "In him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of Him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will." And repeat when I asked of the Father what He was teaching me in this circumstance His reply was "I am teaching you about grace!"

Shalom and agapé

David
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[David IoW]

Michael, following some meditation regarding my recent post I am led to follow up with this addendum.

Relationships: Particularly at this time of year there is a lot of drivel being cast about proclaiming that Christ has come to bring peace to all men! What is related in Luke's gospel is that (Jeshua came to bring) "peace to men on whom His favour rests" (2:14). Jeshua Himself made it quite clear in Luke 12;51 that He came to divide families! Note also Romans 9:19 "For he says to Moses, "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion." He will make decisions according to His will and purposes, as I have already pointed out.

Becoming a disciple and giving up everything includes blood relationships. There are a number of words translated from Greek into 'love', the vital one being agapé, the love of God which is beyond any understanding; another is 'philia' this includes blood (family) relationships and soul ties which are bonds between unrelated individuals which can be just as (or more) powerful such a between brothers in arms or members of a gang. It is a vital consideration of discipleship that these be surrendered to the will of the Father along with everything else. It is my testimony that He will often restore them once they have been sacrificed as was the case with Abram and Issac. But don't count on it else it will not qualify as a sacrifice! Some of these relationships, of both categories, are those that I have referred to in my testimony.

Noticing your interest in human behaviour, I share it! The fall, original sin, sins of the fathers being borne by later generations, nature or/and nurture, cognitive bias, the process of decision-making. I love it all motivated by a desire to know what makes me (and consequently other people) tick. And I am convinced that spiritual wisdom in these areas is prerequisite to effective councelling. (N.B. I am not a professional, just a wise, old spiritual man.

Shalom and agapé,

David