BibleGuy Posted December 22, 2019 Group: Senior Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 777 Content Per Day: 0.48 Reputation: 224 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/05/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted December 22, 2019 19 hours ago, Resurrection Priest said: I think ALL OF US were condemned under "the law of sin and death". Right? If "the law of the spirit of life in Jesus Christ" "has delivered" all those who believe from "the law of sin and death", why cannot homosexuals be included in "all those who believe". Because they have not yet overcome their sin-ful addiction, is not a reason to exclude them from that promised deliverance. Sometimes recovery/healing/victory is a process that takes time. Even if you suffer the death penalty for a sin, YOU CAN STILL BE SAVED (1Cor.5:5). Torah gives no room for a 12-year recovery program from DEATH-PENALTY-LEVEL sins... We're not going to counsel Hitler for a few decades until he decides to think about maybe repenting somewhat.... Lev. 20 WILL be obeyed again (Dt. 30:1-8). Just not now....because we are generally scattered throughout the planet in countries which do NOT uphold Torah. We are STILL in diaspora (Jas.1:1). Don't worry! WE WILL return and again obey 100% of all Torah (Dt.30:1-8). Moses was not a false prophet. blessings... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simplejeff Posted December 22, 2019 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 12 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,689 Content Per Day: 2.39 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 20 Joined: 06/30/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted December 22, 2019 On 12/21/2019 at 6:41 AM, Behold said: Are you asleep? You say that noone is teaching "law+Cross" = salvation. You are kidding us, right? Here is your update... Go and read my last 30 posts to BIBLEGUY, who is here ONLY treaching, that Law (Torah), + Grace, is salvation. Try to pay attention. Thx. Well, now someone themselves posted their own words, their own new post, as evidence for their own (being judged righteously) / judgment. (I still did not see you or anyone else quote him saying this, btw) i.e. All of your posts, or anyone else's posts about him could not convict him without two or three witnesses of his heresy. (same with famous evangelists who for over fifty years promoted the false gospel of univeralism, etc and others - it was /is/ their own words out of their own mouths that convicts them, ) Now, strangely (to me), ironically? , he has posted his own words by which he is and will be judged. (even "with explanation", but explanation's fail - defending a false gospel, defending a heresy, no explanation works). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BibleGuy Posted December 22, 2019 Group: Senior Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 777 Content Per Day: 0.48 Reputation: 224 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/05/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted December 22, 2019 18 hours ago, Resurrection Priest said: How can the curse of the Law be the Law. That doesn't make sense. Paul is not saying that the Law itself was the curse. Paul is reminding his readers that the Law pronounced a curse (death) upon those who broke that covenant. Galatians 3:13 "Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law by being cursed for our sake" (NJB). Jesus suffered "the curse of the law" (death) for us. I am NOT saying that "First Covenant" is still in effect. I don't believe it is. I believe that "First Covenant" has been replaced by a "New Covenant". Because God's Son (the "husband" of that First Covenant) died, His "wife" (Israel) was left a widow. She then became "free" to marry "another man". Paul says the new husband IS the risen Messiah. That's all in Romans Cpt 7. Those who enter in to the New Covenant are effectively "betrothed" to Yeshua. Exactly what commands (given under the First Covenant) pass into the New Covenant - is debatable. "Exactly what commands (given under the First Covenant) pass into the New Covenant - is debatable. " ALL Torah (Mt.5:19) applies to ALL disciples of ALL nations (Mt.28:19-20). Awesome! Debate settled. blessings... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BibleGuy Posted December 22, 2019 Group: Senior Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 777 Content Per Day: 0.48 Reputation: 224 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/05/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted December 22, 2019 18 hours ago, KJVOnly said: The Law of sin and death is actually the Law of the OT. Paul said the Law revealed his sin and pronounced death on him in Romans 7. Romans 8 is Paul saying he is delivered from this Law. WRONG again! There are TWO LAWS! 1. LAW OF SINFUL DISOBEDIENCE AND DEATH (Dt.30:15-19) 2. LAW OF RIGHTEOUS OBEDIENCE AND LIFE (Dt.30:15-19). ROMANS 8:2 only proves were are free from LAW #1..... Paul REQUIRES Law #2! 2Ti.3:16 1Cor.7:19 1Cor. 11 + Jer.31:33 Rom.2:13 Rom.2:27 Rom.3:20 + 1Cor.15:34 Rom.7:25 + 1Cor.11:1 Dt. 30:14 + Rom.10:8 Is.59:20-21 + Rom.11:26-27 Ac. 21:24 + Php.4:9 And on and on and on.... blessings... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BibleGuy Posted December 22, 2019 Group: Senior Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 777 Content Per Day: 0.48 Reputation: 224 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/05/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted December 22, 2019 18 hours ago, Resurrection Priest said: QUESTION IS: Does the New Covenant pronounce a curse on anyone? On who? For what reason? To hear the Baptist once-saved-always-saved doctrine, the New Covenant never pronounces the curse of death upon anyone, for any reason. Once a person has entered into covenant with God through Jesus Christ, that person cannot loose that salvation, no matter what he does or doesn't do. I personally don't buy that one. The Book of Revelation is written in the format of an ancient Covenant Lawsuit. The plantiff is reviewing the terms and parties to that lawsuit, and presenting His case as to why the accused should suffer the penalty of that covenant. I would assume that Revelation is speaking of the New Covenant. So - is anyone accursed in the Book of Revelation? NOTE: One cannot be cursed by a covenant, who has not entered in to that covenant. eg: ignorant pagans, or little children To whom much is given, much more will be required (Lk.12:48). And, ignorance can be forgiven (Nu.15:24). But, those sanctified in Christ CAN WALK AWAY and suffer SEVERE PUNISHMENT (Heb.10:29)..... Heb. 10:31 sounds like the ultimate curse.... Paul applies Dt. 30 to us (Rom.10:8)....thus proving that BLESSING and CURSING is not terminated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KJVOnly Posted December 22, 2019 Group: Non-Conformist Theology Followers: 2 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 228 Content Per Day: 0.09 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/15/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted December 22, 2019 20 minutes ago, BibleGuy said: WRONG again! There are TWO LAWS! 1. LAW OF SINFUL DISOBEDIENCE AND DEATH (Dt.30:15-19) 2. LAW OF RIGHTEOUS OBEDIENCE AND LIFE (Dt.30:15-19). ROMANS 8:2 only proves were are free from LAW #1..... Paul REQUIRES Law #2! 2Ti.3:16 1Cor.7:19 1Cor. 11 + Jer.31:33 Rom.2:13 Rom.2:27 Rom.3:20 + 1Cor.15:34 Rom.7:25 + 1Cor.11:1 Dt. 30:14 + Rom.10:8 Is.59:20-21 + Rom.11:26-27 Ac. 21:24 + Php.4:9 And on and on and on.... blessings... Wrong. There are 2 Laws now.... 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: 4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. Which means you mind the things of the flesh. You need to mind the things of the Spirit. Get it right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KJVOnly Posted December 22, 2019 Group: Non-Conformist Theology Followers: 2 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 228 Content Per Day: 0.09 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/15/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted December 22, 2019 1 hour ago, BibleGuy said: "Not for sinners, the Law is still in effect for sinners. " Notice you gave us ZERO SCRIPTURE (again) to support your opinions. Try again. This time, give us SCRIPTURE. AND! Your opinion is COMPLETELY backwards, buddy! Torah is for ISRAEL (Mal.4:4)...and YOU are not excluded from Israel (Eph.2:12). "I oppose the death penalty for the saint that is free from the Law though. " Then you just opposed the very TORAH (Jer.31:33 + Lev. 20) of the NEW Covenant. The SAME TORAH OF MOSES (" תּוֹרָה " Jer.31:33) passes into the NEW COVENANT..... Jeremiah is not a liar. "If sinners want to smite sinners, I don't interfere." If YOU oppose Torah, then YOU are at great risk of Mt. 5:19..... or worse (Mt.5:20) or worse (Mt.7:21-23) or worse (Mt.13:41-42) Ready to repent? "Should saints smite sinners per the Law?" What does Lev. 20 say? Answer: SOME SINS REQUIRE THE DEATH PENALTY! STOP opposing God's law. You are treading upon DANGEROUS ground. blessings... Thy scriptures.... 6 From which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain jangling; 7 Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm. 8 But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully; 9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, 10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine; Are you righteous or unrighteous? If unrighteous, the Law is right up your alley. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KJVOnly Posted December 22, 2019 Group: Non-Conformist Theology Followers: 2 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 228 Content Per Day: 0.09 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/15/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted December 22, 2019 46 minutes ago, BibleGuy said: YIKES YIKES! It doesn't say you are delivered from ALL LAW! WE are only delivered from the law of SIN AND DEATH (Rom.8:2). WE are STILL UNDER the law of OBEDIENCE (Jn.14:15 + Mt.5:19;1Jn.2:3;5:3;2Ti.3:16;1Cor7:19;Ac. 5:32) and LIFE (Lk.10:25-28;Mt.4:4;Dt.8:3;30:15-19;32:47). After all, TORAH-OBEDIENCE is the very word of faith Paul preaches (citing Dt. 30:14 at Rom.10:8). Paul condones an animal-sacrifice-laden vow to prove he "walks orderly according to the law" (Ac. 21); Paul requires that YOU imitate that Torah-obedient model (1Cor.11:1;Php.4:9). Paul requires FAITH (Gal.3:11) which is of TORAH (Mt.23:23;Dt.32:20;Ps.119:30,86,138). Paul says we who do the TORAH will be JUSTIFIED (Rom.2:13). Paul AFFIRMS the legitimacy of even GENTILES who obey Torah (Rom.2:27). Paul upholds the NEW COVENANT (1Cor.11:1) which is given as TORAH (Jer.31:33;Heb.8:10;10:16). Paul serves in the SPIRIT (Rom.7:6). Serves what? TORAH! (Rom.7:25) After all, those who SERVE obey TORAH (Jos.22:5). What does the Spirit leads us to obey? TORAH! (Heb.10:15-16;Rom.8:13 + Rom.8:7;Eze.36:27;Is.59:20-21 cited at Rom.11:26-27;Ac. 5:32;Jn.6:63 + Mt. 5:19). QUESTION: Do you oppose this Holy Spirit of Torah? (Heb.10:15-16;Rom.8:13 + Rom.8:7;Eze.36:27;Is.59:20-21 cited at Rom.11:26-27;Ac. 5:32). Everything you just said contradicts this..... 18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law..... But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KJVOnly Posted December 22, 2019 Group: Non-Conformist Theology Followers: 2 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 228 Content Per Day: 0.09 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/15/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted December 22, 2019 1 hour ago, BibleGuy said: Yes, of course. After all, the PROHIBITIVE Torah laws (e.g., don't lie, don't kill, don't XYZ, etc, 1 Ti.1:10) are not for RIGHTEOUS people....because RIGHTEOUS people are ALREADY obeying all Torah! (Dt.6:5,25;Mt.5:20;1Jn.2:29;3:7) Same for YOU! Besides, 1 Ti. 1 was written by Paul who ALSO wrote 2Ti.3:16 which requires that ALL TORAH rebuke and correct and teach and train your behavior in RIGHTEOUSNESS. So of COURSE we in Christ are given the gift of righteousness (Rom.5:17)....which is THE SAME RIGHTEOUSNESS IN THE TORAH (Rom.3:21) which includes TORAH-OBEDIENCE (Dt. 6:25). AND! We also DO righteousness (1Jn.2:29;3:7) in obedience to TORAH (2Ti.3:16;Dt.6:25) or else we are a child of the devil (1Jn.3:10) who will NOT inherit the forthcoming kingdom (Mt.5:20). Now, feel free to ignore these Biblical considerations....and then bring up a different objection instead..... After we answer all your objections, you'll see you have none left. QUESTION: Does YOUR BEHAVIOR get corrected and rebuked and taught by TORAH? (2Ti.3:16) You are righteous? Good. Where do you fit in here? 6 From which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain jangling; 7 Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm. 8 But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully; 9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, 10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine; Just curious...why do you want to be in the latter group?(who the Law is made for)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KJVOnly Posted December 22, 2019 Group: Non-Conformist Theology Followers: 2 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 228 Content Per Day: 0.09 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/15/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted December 22, 2019 Question...was the Law made for anyone on this forum? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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