The 8th king of Revelation 17

[Revelation Man]

2 hours ago, JoeCanada said:

Hi Ron, 

Hmmmmm.......

Ok, so I just want to make an observation.

From what I just read above, it seems you are saying that it was Jesus who gave you the "understanding for the book of Revelation". 

Now, since being on this forum, there are  2 other brothers who have said that it was Jesus who spoke to them and gave them the "understanding for the book of Revelation".

I think that the ones who (claim) were taught by the Lord would have a very similar, (if not identical) view or understanding of the BofRev. 

But, this is not so.

We have 3 completely different outcomes,  different chronologies, different start times for the Trib, different Rapture timings, different explanations for Babylon, the Woman, the Harlot, etc.  

I really don't know what to make of it.

Or who to believe or not believe.

I find it more than confusing!

 

 

The Holy Spirit LEADS us unto all truths, but we must first ask him to show us. When we repeat what men has taught us, we place a road block between us and God. The same God/Holy Spirit taught us about Jesus, people just need to look to the bible brother for instruction. See below:

Matt. 16:15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? 16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. 17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

So in reality, God reveals reveals all things unto us ? To some, this is given, to others that, some are legs, some are arms, we all make up one body. 

Satan also deceives people, I see it all the time. Via the Holy Spirit I can see a truth or an untruth in minutes. It doesn't matter what men say or don't say brother, my eyes are not upon men. So I will let others worry about the errors of others, I look toward God, the proof is in the statement. Everything should mesh, or it isn't of God. Most of these people aren't really called unto Prophecy, or they haven't learned to let go of the Men's Traditions that is causing them to have a road block via the info God's trying to give them. 

As per Revelation, notice most peoples written summations always lack the ability to explain why things are stated more than once, like Babylon has fallen. Or how Jesus wins back the title deed in Rev. 11, but only defeats the A.C. in Rev. 16:19 or returns again in Rev. 19, but the facts are this:

Rev. 11 the 7th Trump IS the Rev. ch. 16 Vials {3rd Woe}. Rev. 14:18-20, the Wine-Press of Gods Wrath IS the Rev. 16:19 7th Vial victory. Rev. 19's return IS SEEN in Rev. 16:19 where Jesus lands on Mt. Zion. They are ALL the exact same EVENT. 

Edited December 11, 2019 by Revelation Man

[Revelation Man]

1 hour ago, Da Puppers said:

 It's like Monty Halls ' Let's make a Deal.  He tells you that the big deal is behind one of 3 doors.   You choose a door and then Monty would show you what was behind one of the other two doors,  that wasn't the big deal.   He would ask,  do you want to swap doors?   The answer should be a resounding yes because there was only a 1 out of 3 chance that you chose the big deal.  I.e., a 2 out of 3 chance that you didn't choose the big deal.   Swapping doors actually upped the odds that you would walk away with the big deal.   At least 2 out of the 3 brothers have been deceived.   Saying so,  "that you have the truth", actually ups the odds that you are wrong.   Actually the number of brothers/ sisters proclaiming that message,  yet having a different view from each other, is unlimited.   And the thing that we know is that only 1 of them can be right,  meaning that 99.99+% of the rest of them are wrong.   I'll take my chances, and go with the odds. 

Be Blessed 

The PuP 

The REAL ANSWER is to learn to hear the quite voice of the Holy Spirit. Until people do this they can't tell the difference many times between Satan's half-truths and God's truths. It really astonishes me that men of God don't understand how we as Christians are supposed to communicate with God via the Holy Spirit. The GUESSING about doors is a sad analogy to God's Holy Spirit brother. 

If you hear God............Pssttttttt you will know the truth when you hear it. Try the spirits to see if they are of God. Its just that simple. If a man is preaching truth and people can't receive it, its not on the preacher/teacher, its on the one hearing. 

You can't say say anything from the bible that I don't know within 5 minutes if its of God or not. Now 25 years ago I might not could have said that. And 5 years ago on Prophecy I couldn't say that in full. But whatever I lack, I always seek to understand that truth. I am always poor in spirit, I seek refilling.

Just coming up with odd ideas because one can't understand these deep truths in no way changes the truths of God. The truth is some people/MANY, aren't called to understand these things and probably never will. 

[Last Daze]

10 hours ago, JoeCanada said:

Hi Ron, 

Hmmmmm.......

Ok, so I just want to make an observation.

From what I just read above, it seems you are saying that it was Jesus who gave you the "understanding for the book of Revelation". 

Now, since being on this forum, there are  2 other brothers who have said that it was Jesus who spoke to them and gave them the "understanding for the book of Revelation".

I think that the ones who (claim) were taught by the Lord would have a very similar, (if not identical) view or understanding of the BofRev. 

But, this is not so.

We have 3 completely different outcomes,  different chronologies, different start times for the Trib, different Rapture timings, different explanations for Babylon, the Woman, the Harlot, etc.  

I really don't know what to make of it.

Or who to believe or not believe.

I find it more than confusing!

I find that people who use "God told me so" in an attempt to buttress their views have generally weak arguments.  If their views are true, why can't they just explain how they see things and be content with letting the Holy Spirit do His job of revealing truth and showing us the things to come?  Why do they need to interject "God told me so" into it?  I don't pretend to know someone's motive but when they can't trust the Holy Spirit to do His job, I find that a bit dubious.

And as you point out, it's not like they all agree.  God is not the one confused and telling different people different things.

[JoeCanada]

12 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

 

The Book of Revelation's Chronological Order........

Rev. 1 is the things John has seen {Jesus Glorified}

Rev. 2 and 3 are the things which ARE {Church Age}

Everything after Rev. 4:1 {Rapture} is the things which are {HEREAFTER}

Rev. 4 and 5 is the Church in heaven AFTER the Rapture and BEFORE the Seals are opened, the 24 Elders have all the gifts promised to the Churches in Rev. 2 and 3, the Crowns, Thrones etc. etc.

 

Hi Ron,

I would like to continue to discuss this with you, although I don't want to hijack this thread, as it's about the 8th king of Revelation.

"Rev. 4 and 5 is the Church in heaven AFTER the Rapture and BEFORE the Seals are opened, the 24 Elders have all the gifts promised to the Churches in Rev. 2 and 3, the Crowns, Thrones etc. etc."

Why do you believe that the 24 elders around the throne "represent" the church? 

Is it because they are clothed in "white " garments?............ Since white is generally a symbol of purity or sinlessness, we are shown throughout scriptures that angels are dressed in white garments. Are white garments exclusively a symbol of salvation? 

Is it because they are wearing gold crowns?........... In Rev 6:2, the rider on the white horse wears a stephanos crown, also in Rev 9:7 the demon locusts wear stephanos crowns, and in Rev 12:1 the woman, who represents Israel, wears a stephanos crown. So, clearly these crowns are not exclusively referring to church saints.

Rev 3:21 tells us that...." To him who overcomes, I will give the right to sit with Me on My throne, just as I overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne"

Jesus' promise for those who overcome, by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, is to sit with Him on His throne. When the saints are glorified at the resurrection and the rapture, they will not be sitting on 24 thrones around the Fathers throne, they will be sitting with Jesus on His throne.

 

 

[dhchristian]

12 minutes ago, Last Daze said:

I find that people who use "God told me so" in an attempt to buttress their views have generally weak arguments.  If their views are true, why can't they just explain how they see things and be content with letting the Holy Spirit do His job of revealing truth and showing us the things to come?  Why do they need to interject "God told me so" into it?  I don't pretend to know someone's motive but when they can't trust the Holy Spirit to do His job, I find that a bit dubious.

And as you point out, it's not like they all agree.  God is not the one confused and telling different people different things.

Hi Last Daze,

I Wanted to interject here, some of my experience regarding "God Told me". In my experience, sometimes, most times, What God shows us is bigger than our understanding can fully grasp. I find when he first shows us we try to fit the divine revelation into our own understanding and explain it, Many never get past this point because they may feel threatened by this because it goes against their dogma and doctrines they have been handed down by men. Some finagle it into their own framework and you end up with a Myriad of views we see on prophecy Forums. Sometimes, many times, the rational carnal mind gets in the way of divine revelation, and or alters what is being revealed to be partial Truth.

That being said, we all are revealed a part of the whole counsel of God, and our pride and unwillingness to listen to others leads us to be unable to learn from one another. Herein lies the problem with and the blessing of studying prophecy. We learn to be teachable, and to fellowship with one another despite our diverse opinions. And therein also lies the other problem in that divine revelation can lead to one thinking they are superior to others and lording over them.

Thus how we process this divine revelation is the key. The confusion comes not from God, but from the mind of man. The fact that some cannot explain what God has shown them properly, I find is a sign it comes from a supernatural source, the question we need to ask is, is this source from God, therefore we need to test the spirits.    

[Alive]

A few thoughts for those to consider.

First of all, I believe that God is sovereign within the Body of Christ. That all things that derive from Him and the Head Christ in the context of His Body are wholly of Him and unadulterated. Secondly, I believe that when He opens eyes (unveils Truth) that it is clear. He is not wasteful or inept.

With those things as a foundation of sorts--I also believe that there is a limitation to what He will reveal to individuals outside of the context of 'the Body'. When I say, 'the Body' I mean a local assembly. A local 'corporate' expression of His Body. One or more gathered who have their collective focus on Christ, the Head.

This has both principled and practical reasons.

Principled because 'we' can't stand alone. We are members one of another and as such require the other parts of the Body working as the Head directs.

Practical because many things regarding 'Truth' make little sense outside of the context of that Body.

The great truths that Paul taught only apply in this context.

These things point to an explanation for the state of much of christendom which is essentially many individuals standing apart from one another and the Head due to the ecclesiastical and heirarchal structure of a man made artifact.

This doesn't mean that there is no spiritual activity that has its origin with God, but that there is a significant limit imposed by God's own Way.

[Last Daze]

7 minutes ago, dhchristian said:

Hi Last Daze,

I Wanted to interject here, some of my experience regarding "God Told me". In my experience, sometimes, most times, What God shows us is bigger than our understanding can fully grasp. I find when he first shows us we try to fit the divine revelation into our own understanding and explain it, Many never get past this point because they may feel threatened by this because it goes against their dogma and doctrines they have been handed down by men. Some finagle it into their own framework and you end up with a Myriad of views we see on prophecy Forums. Sometimes, many times, the rational carnal mind gets in the way of divine revelation, and or alters what is being revealed to be partial Truth.

That being said, we all are revealed a part of the whole counsel of God, and our pride and unwillingness to listen to others leads us to be unable to learn from one another. Herein lies the problem with and the blessing of studying prophecy. We learn to be teachable, and to fellowship with one another despite our diverse opinions. And therein also lies the other problem in that divine revelation can lead to one thinking they are superior to others and lording over them.

Thus how we process this divine revelation is the key. The confusion comes not from God, but from the mind of man. The fact that some cannot explain what God has shown them properly, I find is a sign it comes from a supernatural source, the question we need to ask is, is this source from God, therefore we need to test the spirits.    

Hey DH,

I can agree with that.  I know that God reveals things to people.  That's just a "given" that really doesn't need to be stated.  If He didn't, we wouldn't know anything.  I've made "course corrections" over the years based on revelation and what others have explained.  Like you say, we need to be teachable and understand that it's a process.

The problem I have is when people use "God told me" as an authoritative stamp of approval of their view.  "No one can challenge my views because I heard it directly from God."  That smells like it comes from a cult mentality to me.  There's no good reason to use "God told me."  If what a person says is true, then of course He did.  If they have to state it, it comes across to me as being a bit arrogant, like the Holy Spirit is insufficient to reveal truth to others and that they are the arbiter thereof.  Just lay it out there and let Him do His job.  I don't see what's so hard about that? 

[dhchristian]

Just now, Last Daze said:

That smells like it comes from a cult mentality to me.

That is true, that is how cults start.... Mystical manipulation. IMO the crème will rise to the surface over time. I may not comprehend it But The Truth will become evident. 

[Alive]

I agree. I think on important issues, the Spirit rings a bell and we hear it.

"My sheep know My voice".

[Revelation Man]

7 hours ago, Last Daze said:

I find that people who use "God told me so" in an attempt to buttress their views have generally weak arguments.  If their views are true, why can't they just explain how they see things and be content with letting the Holy Spirit do His job of revealing truth and showing us the things to come?  Why do they need to interject "God told me so" into it?  I don't pretend to know someone's motive but when they can't trust the Holy Spirit to do His job, I find that a bit dubious.

And as you point out, it's not like they all agree.  God is not the one confused and telling different people different things.

And I find people who can't tell the difference between what's of God and what's not rather lacking in something they ought not be lacking in. 

It really astounds me that people don't understand the small still voice of the Holy Spirit, not only that, but mocks those that do, I am not ashamed to hear from the holy spirit. You can keep up the bad argument all you want, but its just a defense mechanism. I on the other hand don't understand why people think its normal not to hear from the Holy Spirit, if you are a Christian and don't hear from the Holy Spirit, that is what is odd to me. 

What is not going to happen, is that no one is going to shake my faith via their suggestions that people can't hear from God, I could care less what peoples belief on that is, its a good thing Moses and Paul didn't believe like that tbh. 

My understanding on the book of Revelation and Prophecy is spot on, and you will find that out once you get to Heaven. Everyone can't be right, but everyone who humbles themselves before God can be right, because I don't see my understanding as important in the least, so I am open to God, those that already have all the answers can't hear all He wishes to say to them it seems, because they already know it all. {Tunnel vision}

So God tells us and I heard from the Holy Spirit is the same thing, and I can tell whats of God and whats not in 5 minutes, even if its something I never, ever thought of. In my estimation, people who are overindulged in wrong think are the ones who can't see what the Spirit is saying. 

Lets not pretend Christians shouldn't hear from the Holy Spirit just to try and make a point, cause I don't think you really believe we Christians shouldn't hear from the Holy Spirit, I think you are saying a lot of people say they hear from God but may not, well, that's ON US.....We are supposed to be able to tell the difference as Christians who are on MEAT and not on MILK. Its our job to see these truths or lies. After all, the Spirit is supposed to do what ? LEAD US UNTO ALL TRUTH !!