The 8th king of Revelation 17

[Revelation Man]

8 hours ago, Gentle-Warrior said:

Start by proving that the book of Revelation is a book for the future. Chapter and verse will end the discussion. 

Is this a joke ? SMH.......

[Gentle-Warrior]

12 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

Is this a joke ? SMH.......

I'm dead serious. Prove that the book of Revelation was written for a futuristic people that probably haven't been born yet. If that is the case, this book has been nothing but a joke for the last 2,000 years since no one can interpret it correctly because it cannot be proven. 

[Gentle-Warrior]

20 hours ago, Alive said:

Rev. 22:20   He who testifies to these things says, “Surely I am coming quickly.”

Did this already happen?

Absolutely! "Surely I am coming quickly" does not mean 2,000 + years into the future, but QUICKLY! Jesus returned to judge the harlot Israel by using the Romans, and to do away with all the wicked Jews that had up to that time been persecuting and killing His true Israel (a people of faith in their Messiah). 

All you have to do read what Jesus CLEARLY said in Mat. 23:34-38, in some of His parable that were meant for unbelieving Israel (Mat. 22:1-14) and then read 1 Thes. 2:14-16 as a follow up. Then read your history (the Jewish-Roman wars that took place in AD 66-70) 

[Revelation Man]

On 12/13/2019 at 12:54 PM, Gentle-Warrior said:

Absolutely! "Surely I am coming quickly" does not mean 2,000 + years into the future, but QUICKLY! Jesus returned to judge the harlot Israel by using the Romans, and to do away with all the wicked Jews that had up to that time been persecuting and killing His true Israel (a people of faith in their Messiah). 

 

This is why people that are not Preachers whose job it is to know these things, should rely on others if they aren't going to do in depth research on these things.  {in some cases that don't work either} Rely on people who study these things in depth and you can learn yourself, you are trying to interpret a word that doesn't mean what you think it means, Old English is hard enough to understand, I can show you English you can't even read brother. On top of that they got the TRANSLATION MEANING Wrong, or either the word means what it means in the old English and like gay meant HAPPY in the 30's, it changed. We can look at my Hebrew and Greek site to understand this Greek words real meaning. The Greek word used for quickly here is TACHOS and its where we get the English word Tachometer from. It doesn't really mean quickly as in soon, it means quickly as in VROOM, VROOM, VROOM, when I come it will be SWIFT, FAST, in the Blink of an Eye etc. etc. 

The same word is used in Rev. 1:1 except SHORTLY is used, and it is used for TWO Greek words at once, EN.....and TACHOS. Lets look at what both really mean and what this word you cite means. It seems ALL your Eschatology is wrapped around ONE WORD you do not seem to fully comprehend. 

Rev. 1:1¶ The Reuelation 602 of Iesus 2424 Christ, 5547 which 3739 God 2316 gaue 1325 z5656 vnto him, 846 to shewe 1166 z5658 vnto his y846 x848 seruants 1401 things which 3739 must 1163 z5748 SHORTLY 1722 5034 come to passe; 1096 z5635 and 2532 he sent 649 z5660 and signified 4591 z5656 [it] by 1223 his y846 x848 Angel 32 vnto his y846 x848 seruant 1401 Iohn, 2491

Greek word EN.....#1722 ἐν en {en} a primary preposition denoting (fixed) position (in place, time or state)

—Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)

A primary preposition denoting (fixed) position (in place, time or state),

—Strong's (Greek Dictionary of the New Testament)

 

Greek word TACHOS.....#5034 τάχος tachos {takh'-os} from the same as G5036; TDNT - n/a; n n

—Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)

1) quickness, speed

—Thayer's (New Testament Greek-English Lexicon)

From the same as G5036; a brief space (of time), that is, (with G1722 prefixed) in haste:— + quickly, + shortly, + speedily.

—Strong's (Greek Dictionary of the New Testament)

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now lets look at Rev. 22:20 in like manner !!

Rev. 22:20 Hee which testifieth 3140 z5723 these things, 5023 saith, 3004 z5719 Surely, 3483 I come 2064 z5736 QUICKLY. 5035 Amen. 281 Euen so, 3483 Come 2064 z5736 Lord 2962 Iesus. 2424

 

#5035 ταχύ tachu {takh-oo'} neuter singular of G5036 (as adverb); TDNT - n/a; adv

—Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)

1) quickly, speedily (without delay)

—Thayer's (New Testament Greek-English Lexicon)

Neuter singular of G5036 (as adverb); shortly, that is, without delay, soon, or (by surprise) suddenly, or (by implication of ease) readily:—lightly, quickly.

—Strong's (Greek Dictionary of the New Testament)

Lets look at the Rev. 1:1 verse first, its OBVIOUS what this means, the EN means at a FIXED POINT IN TIME {FUTURE EVENT} in which only the Father knows when it will start, thus Jesus says {EN}, at a future point in time God the Father will send me and I will come IN HASTE.........FAST {Tachos, Vroom, vroom, vroom} Speedily, in a FLASH or in the blink of an eye, because I am God and can move swiftly if I so desire !! It doesn't mean SHORTLY, it means in a short frame of time I will come, as soon as the Father sends me, at a TIME only He knows !! I will be there BOOM !!!

Likewise, Rev. 22:20 is a Greek word Tachu, same root word basically, as you see above, it can mean SUDDENLY by SURPRISE, it also means Quickly, and speedily or without DELAY........But the Father has to send Jesus first !! And Jesus DOESN'T KNOW the time nor day, because he told us He doesn't know the time nor the day, and that ONLY the Father knows, so for Him to be saying hes coming SOON would make Jesus a liar. Hes not a liar, hes coming IN HASTE when the Father sends him !!

So every bit of your Eschatology is based on a FALSE ASSUMPTION brother, reading the Holy Word would have and should have told you that Jesus doesn't know when he is coming again, thus he couldn't tell you or anyone it would be soon,  but he does know that when the Father sends him, at a FIXED POINT IN TIME {future by definition} that he will come SWIFTLY and without DELAY, Vroom, vroom, vroom !! Amen.

P.S. We know Jerusalem was destroyed in 70 AD, HINT........If the Jews had of accepted Jesus when he came Jesus would have rescued them in 70 AD. But they rejected him, and God already {of course} knew they would reject him. 

All your eschatology went down a rabbit hole with you not understanding what a Greek word translated/interpreted into Old Englishe meant.....

Edited December 14, 2019 by Revelation Man

[Gentle-Warrior]

Do

1 hour ago, Revelation Man said:

This is why people that are not Preachers whose job it is to know these things {in some cases that don't work} or people who study these things in depth should be leaned upon, you are trying to interpret a word that doesn't mean what you think it means, Old English is hard enough to understand, I can show you English you can't even read brother. On top of that they got in TRANSLATION MEANING Wrong, or either the word means what it means in the old English and like gay meant HAPPY in the 30's, it changed. We can look at my Hebrew and Greek site to understand this Greek words real meaning. The Greek word used for quickly here is TACHOS and its where we get the English word Tachometer from. It doesn't really mean quickly as on soon, it means quickly as in VROOM, VROOM, VROOM, when I come it will be SWIFT, FAST, in the Blink of an Eye etc. etc. 

The same word is used in Rev. 1:1 except SHORTLY is used, and it is used fir TWO Greek words at once, EN.....and TACHOS. Lets look at what both really mean and what this word you site means. It seems ALL your Eschatology is wrapped around ONE WORD you do not full comprehend. 

Rev. 1:1¶ The Reuelation 602 of Iesus 2424 Christ, 5547 which 3739 God 2316 gaue 1325 z5656 vnto him, 846 to shewe 1166 z5658 vnto his y846 x848 seruants 1401 things which 3739 must 1163 z5748 shortly 1722 5034 come to passe; 1096 z5635 and 2532 he sent 649 z5660 and signified 4591 z5656 [it] by 1223 his y846 x848 Angel 32 vnto his y846 x848 seruant 1401 Iohn, 2491

Greek word EN.....#1722 ἐν en {en} a primary preposition denoting (fixed) position (in place, time or state)

—Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)

A primary preposition denoting (fixed) position (in place, time or state),

—Strong's (Greek Dictionary of the New Testament)

 

Greek word TACHOS.....#5034 τάχος tachos {takh'-os} from the same as G5036; TDNT - n/a; n n

—Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)

1) quickness, speed

—Thayer's (New Testament Greek-English Lexicon)

From the same as G5036; a brief space (of time), that is, (with G1722 prefixed) in haste:— + quickly, + shortly, + speedily.

—Strong's (Greek Dictionary of the New Testament)

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now lets look at Rev. 22:20 in like manner !!

Rev. 22:20 Hee which testifieth 3140 z5723 these things, 5023 saith, 3004 z5719 Surely, 3483 I come 2064 z5736 quickly. 5035 Amen. 281 Euen so, 3483 Come 2064 z5736 Lord 2962 Iesus. 2424

 

#5035 ταχύ tachu {takh-oo'} neuter singular of G5036 (as adverb); TDNT - n/a; adv

—Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)

1) quickly, speedily (without delay)

—Thayer's (New Testament Greek-English Lexicon)

Neuter singular of G5036 (as adverb); shortly, that is, without delay, soon, or (by surprise) suddenly, or (by implication of ease) readily:—lightly, quickly.

—Strong's (Greek Dictionary of the New Testament)

Lets look at the Rev. 1:1 verse first, its OBVIOUS what this means, the EN means at a FIXED POINT IN TIME {FUTURE EVENT that only the Father knows when it will start thus Jesus uses EN, at a future point in time} God the Father will send me an I will come IN HASTE.........FAST {Tachos, vroom, vroom, vroom} Speedily, in a FLASH or in the blink of an eye, because I am God and can move swiftly !! It doesn't mean SHORTLY, it means in a short frame of time I will come, as soon as the Father sends me, at a TIME only He knows !! 

Likewise, Rev. 22:20 is a Greek word Tachu, same root word basically, as you see above, it can mean SUDDENLY by SURPRISE, it also means Quickly, and speedily or without DELAY........But the Father has to send Jesus first !! And Jesus DOESN'T KNOW the time nor day, because he told us He doesn't know the time nor day, and that ONLY the Father knows, so for Him to be saying hes coming SOON would make Jesus a liar. Hes not a liar, hes coming IN HASTE when the Father sends him !!

So every bit of your Eschatology is based on a FALSE ASSUMPTION brother, reading the word would have and should have told you that Jesus doesn't know when he is coming again, this he couldn't tell you or anyone it would be soon,  but he does that that when the Father sends him, at a FIXED POINT IN TIME {future by definition} that he will come SWIFTLY and without DELAY, Vroom, vroom, vroom !! Amen.

P.S. We know Jerusalem was destroyed in 70 AD, HINT........If the Jews had of accepted Jesus when he came Jesus would have rescued them in 70 AD. But they rejected him, and God already {of course} knew they would reject him. 

All you eschatology went down a rabbit hole with you not understanding what a Greek word translated/interpreted into Old Englishe meant.....

Do me a favor and please respond to what I said first before giving me your understanding of what you believe, that by the way, it didn't make much sense,

I said, 

"Surely I am coming quickly" does not mean 2,000 + years into the future, but QUICKLY! Jesus returned to judge the harlot Israel by using the Romans, and to do away with all the wicked Jews that had up to that time been persecuting and killing His true Israel (a people of faith in their Messiah). 

All you have to do read what Jesus CLEARLY said in Mat. 23:34-38, in some of His parable that were meant for unbelieving Israel (Mat. 22:1-14) and then read 1 Thes. 2:14-16 as a follow up. Then read your history (the Jewish-Roman wars that took place in AD 66-70) 

Since when quickly means 2,000 years plus??? 

[Revelation Man]

21 hours ago, Gentle-Warrior said:

Do me a favor and please respond to what I said first before giving me your understanding of what you believe, that by the way, it didn't make much sense,

 

I rewrote it, I was in a hurry, but it makes perfect sense. But the stiff necked will not heed instruction God says. 

 

21 hours ago, Gentle-Warrior said:

"Surely I am coming quickly" does not mean 2,000 + years into the future, but QUICKLY! Jesus returned to judge the harlot Israel by using the Romans, and to do away with all the wicked Jews that had up to that time been persecuting and killing His true Israel (a people of faith in their Messiah). 

 

And I shant try to prove you wrong again as per what it means, I already did it once.

The Harlot is ALL FALSE RELIGION, and shes still on earth, so you are all over the place man. 

Israel REPENTS during the 70th week.

21 hours ago, Gentle-Warrior said:

All you have to do read what Jesus CLEARLY said in Mat. 23:34-38, in some of His parable that were meant for unbelieving Israel (Mat. 22:1-14) and then read 1 Thes. 2:14-16 as a follow up. Then read your history (the Jewish-Roman wars that took place in AD 66-70) 

 

All this meant nothing via YOUR CONTEXT because you have everything backwards, so there is no use replying to this portion.

21 hours ago, Gentle-Warrior said:

Since when quickly means 2,000 years plus??? 

 

So you can't understand plain writing ? Its means IN HASTE........He {Jesus} will come FAST/SPEEDILY/In Haste when he comes......NOT SOON. 

Edited December 15, 2019 by Revelation Man

[Sister]

Revelation Man 

John 7:6   Then Jesus said unto them, My time is not yet come: but your time is alway ready.

 

Compared to an eternity, our lives on this earth are only a puff of smoke.  Death can take us at any time. For those who died over 2000 years ago, even those who died before the flood, do not know anything.  Time has stopped for them.  They have no clocks to go by because there is no breath of life plugged into them to be aware of anything.  The power has been turned off and time stands still.

When they awake, the judge will be at the door and it will be "today" for them. It will seem like no time has passed.   Some will awake to the resurrection of life and receive the reward that Jesus is bringing with him, and many stay in the grave until the final judgement. 

Either way, our life on this earth is short and judgement comes quickly for all because we only have to wait the length of our lives on this earth.  Our time is always ready to die, it can happen at any moment, and when we awake, Christ will be there.  As quick as that.

[Revelation Man]

15 hours ago, Sister said:

Revelation Man 

John 7:6   Then Jesus said unto them, My time is not yet come: but your time is alway ready.

 

Compared to an eternity, our lives on this earth are only a puff of smoke.  Death can take us at any time. For those who died over 2000 years ago, even those who died before the flood, do not know anything.  Time has stopped for them.  They have no clocks to go by because there is no breath of life plugged into them to be aware of anything.  The power has been turned off and time stands still.

When they awake, the judge will be at the door and it will be "today" for them. It will seem like no time has passed.   Some will awake to the resurrection of life and receive the reward that Jesus is bringing with him, and many stay in the grave until the final judgement. 

Either way, our life on this earth is short and judgement comes quickly for all because we only have to wait the length of our lives on this earth.  Our time is always ready to die, it can happen at any moment, and when we awake, Christ will be there.  As quick as that.

I agree, but in the book of Revelation 1:1, if one reads the plain text, it means that Jesus is telling John that at a future point in time {unknown to him, he knows about what time, but the Father will have to decide the day and hour} EN......that he will come TACHOS or in haste, speedily, because Jesus is God, when he decides to come, hes there. I know people have tried to explain it in other ways too overcome the "SHORTLY" point, but it never meant shortly, it meant in a short time frame, TACHOS means quickly, speedily, fast, in haste or in a short burst of time. You see, Jesus in Rev. 1:1 is giving John the book of Revelation in order to inform us about CHAPTER 1..........His Glory........Chapter 2 and 3 the Church Age..........and everything else, which happens after the Church Age [Rapture]. 

Edited December 15, 2019 by Revelation Man

[Sister]

Revelation Man

We have to remember that the bible is written for all generations, right up to the last one.  God's Word is a living Word.  He's yesterday, today, and tomorrow.  He spoke to them then, and he speaks to us today but it's been over 2000 years?  So, It doesn't matter if they are dead already, or we die before Jesus' return because as soon as we hear the Word, it's alive, and it's got truth and meaning.  Jesus is coming to return shortly.  Whilst our hearts are beating, we are in "time".  Our time could be 70 years, 80, 10, or even a few minutes.  It doesn't change anything, because it's the length of our days on this earth.  As soon at that ends, the judge is at the door, and it will seem like we've only blinked.

About the Church Age, it happened then, and it is still happening today.  They are all particular groups of believers and they have been categorised by the Lord.

Please consider these scriptures;

Revelation 2:5   Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

Revelation 2:16   Repent; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth.

Revelation 3:11   Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.

Revelation 22:7   Behold, I come quickly: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book.

Revelation 22:12   And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

Revelation 22:20   He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

 

If Jesus said, take your time, I won't return until another 2-3 thousand years, no one would see the urgency.  We have to live everyday, like it's our last, because the only time we've got in this life, is so short, ...and in that short time a smaller time-frame to repent before we die, and get our walk right with the Lord.

  John 7:6   Then Jesus said unto them, My time is not yet come: but your time is alway ready.

 

[Sister]

Revelation Man

Sorry I forgot to address.  I realise what you are saying, that when Jesus comes, he will come quickly, and not slowly, is that right?  He's moving in fast motion?  If so I don't think that's what he meant.  In short, I think he meant  -"I'll be back before you know it"  That quick!