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ROMANS 16:7 IN CHRIST BEFORE PAUL


douge

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Romans 16:7 Salute Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen, and my fellow-prisoners, who are of note among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me.

Those in Christ before Paul had believed the preaching of Peter and the apostles. They were not in the body of Christ. They had the promise of the Davidic kingdom on earth (Exodus 19:5-6 Daniel 7:18 Psalm 22:28).

Paul addressed them in his epistles and admonished those in the body to receive those weak in the faith (Romans 15:1).

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7 hours ago, douge said:

Romans 16:7 Salute Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen, and my fellow-prisoners, who are of note among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me.

Those in Christ before Paul had believed the preaching of Peter and the apostles. They were not in the body of Christ. They had the promise of the Davidic kingdom on earth (Exodus 19:5-6 Daniel 7:18 Psalm 22:28).

Paul addressed them in his epistles and admonished those in the body to receive those weak in the faith (Romans 15:1).

Are you saying that Paul, and only Paul, knew the truth, and that the other epistle writers should not be believed? If so, I disagree.

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The fact is that Peter and Paul preached the same gospel.  This was verified when Paul went to Jerusalem to compare his teaching to the other apostles.  Paul challenged Peter about circumcision but Peter agreed with him.  The trust of this is that the Holy Spirit inspired all of the New Testament and Old Testament 66 book cannon.  One of the proofs is that there is no error found there like those found in the aprocrypha.

2Pe 3:15  And count the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, 2Pe 3:16  as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures.

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18 hours ago, douge said:

They were not in the body of Christ.

Those under the teaching of Peter also had the baptism of the Holy Spirit and were part of the Church.  The church started in Acts 2.  Those baptized by John may not have been a part of the Church since they later had hands laid on them to receive the Holy Spirit.  Those who are indwelt by the Holy Spirit belong to God.  

Rom 8:9  You, however, are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if in fact the Spirit of God dwells in you. Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him.

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17 hours ago, johnthebaptist said:

Are you saying that Paul, and only Paul, knew the truth, and that the other epistle writers should not be believed? If so, I disagree.

All scripture is for us and is to be believed and not to be ignored, but all is not for us to obey. Paul was given revelation from Christ for this dispensation of grace. Paul was given our gospel for the dispensation of grace. There was a gradual transition from the apostleship of Peter and the twelve to Israel and the apostleship of Paul and the body of Christ. There were saints who were in Christ who believed the gospel of the kingdom preached by Jesus and the twelve when Paul wrote the early epistles.

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7 hours ago, Willa said:

Those under the teaching of Peter also had the baptism of the Holy Spirit and were part of the Church.  The church started in Acts 2.  Those baptized by John may not have been a part of the Church since they later had hands laid on them to receive the Holy Spirit.  Those who are indwelt by the Holy Spirit belong to God.  

Rom 8:9  You, however, are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if in fact the Spirit of God dwells in you. Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him.

Those who believed the gospel of the kingdom preached by Jesus and the twelve were in Christ and in the church of God. The church, the body of Christ was not formed or revealed until Paul. Acts 2 was not the start of the church, the body of Christ. Acts 2 was fulfilling of prophecy (Joel) for Israel.

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14 minutes ago, douge said:

All scripture is for us and is to be believed and not to be ignored, but all is not for us to obey. Paul was given revelation from Christ for this dispensation of grace. Paul was given our gospel for the dispensation of grace. There was a gradual transition from the apostleship of Peter and the twelve to Israel and the apostleship of Paul and the body of Christ. There were saints who were in Christ who believed the gospel of the kingdom preached by Jesus and the twelve when Paul wrote the early epistles.

I believe I see a contradiction in your reasoning. You say that "All scripture is for us and is to be believed" but then go on to say "but all [scripture] is not for us to obey." How can you believe something but not obey it?

My own belief is that everything Jesus and God said must be believed and obeyed. As for Paul and the others, we have much to learn from them - they were great people - but we are not required to obey them.

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What is the Church Age?


church ageaudioQuestion: "What is the Church Age? Where does the Church Age fit in biblical history?"

Answer: 
An “age” is an historical period of time or an era. Some historians divide human history into many epochs and name them according to their defining characteristics: Middle Ages, Modern Age, Postmodern Age, etc. Biblical history, too, can be divided into different eras. When those divisions emphasize God’s interaction with His creation, we call them dispensations. More broadly, biblical history can be divided into two periods, roughly following the division of Old and New Testaments: the Age of the Law and the Church Age.

The Church Age is the period of time from Pentecost (Acts 2) to the rapture (foretold in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18). It is called the Church Age because it covers the period in which the Church is on earth. It corresponds with the dispensation of Grace. In prophetic history, it falls between the 69th and 70th weeks of Daniel (Daniel 9:24-27; Romans 11). Jesus predicted the Church Age in Matthew 16:18 when He said, “I will build my church.” Jesus has kept His promise, and His Church has now been growing for almost 2,000 years.

The Church is composed of those individuals who have by faith accepted Christ Jesus as their Savior and Lord (John 1:12; Acts 9:31). Therefore, the Church is people rather than denominations or buildings. It is the Body of Christ of which He is the head (Ephesians 1:22-23). The Greek word ecclesia, translated “church,” means “a called-out assembly.” The Church is universal in scope but meets locally in smaller bodies.

The Church Age comprises the entire dispensation of Grace. “The law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ” (John 1:17). For the first time in history, God actually indwells His creatures, permanently and eternally. In other dispensations the Holy Spirit was always present and always at work, but He would come upon people temporarily (e.g., 1 Samuel 16:14). The Church Age is marked by the Holy Spirit’s permanent indwelling of His people (John 14:16).

Scripture makes a distinction between the nation of Israel and the Church (1 Corinthians 10:32). There is some overlap because, individually, many Jews believe in Jesus as their Messiah and are therefore part of the Church. But God’s covenants with the nation of Israel have not yet been fulfilled. Those promises await fulfillment during the Millennial Kingdom, after the Church Age ends (Ezekiel 34; 37; 45; Jeremiah 30; 33; Matthew 19:28; Revelation 19).

The Church Age will end when God’s people are raptured out of the world and taken to be with the Lord (1 Corinthians 15:51-57). The rapture will be followed in heaven by the Marriage Supper of the Lamb (Revelation 19:6-9) as the Church, the Bride of Christ, receives her heavenly reward. Until then, the Church carries on in hope, exhorted to “stand firm. Let nothing move you. Always give yourselves fully to the work of the Lord, because you know that your labor in the Lord is not in vain” (1 Corinthians 15:58).
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when did the church begin, when did the church startaudioQuestion: "When did the church begin/start?"

Answer: 
The church began on the Day of Pentecost, fifty days after the Passover when Jesus died and rose again. The word translated “church” comes from two Greek words that together mean “called out from the world for God.” The word is used throughout the Bible to refer to all those who have been born again (John 3:3) through faith in the death and resurrection of Jesus (Romans 10:9–10). The word church, when used to reference all believers everywhere, is synonymous with the term Body of Christ (Ephesians 1:22–23; Colossians 1:18).

The word church first appears in Matthew 16 when Jesus tells Peter, “On this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it.” (verse 18). The “rock” here is the statement Peter had made, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God” (verse 16). That truth about Jesus is the bedrock of the church that has flourished for over two thousand years. Everyone who makes that truth the foundation of his or her own life becomes a member of Jesus’ church (Acts 16:31).

Jesus’ words, “I will build my church,” were a foretelling of what was about to happen when He sent the Holy Spirit to indwell believers (John 15:26–27; 16:13). Jesus still had to undergo the cross and experience the resurrection. Although the disciples understood in part, the fulfillment of all Jesus had come to do had not yet been accomplished. After His resurrection Jesus would not allow His followers to begin the work He had given them, to make disciples of all nations (Matthew 28:19–20), until the Holy Spirit had come (Acts 1:4–5).

The book of Acts details the beginning of the church and its miraculous spread through the power of the Holy Spirit. Ten days after Jesus ascended back into heaven (Acts 1:9), the Holy Spirit was poured out upon 120 of Jesus’ followers who waited and prayed (Acts 1:15; 2:1–4). The same disciples who had quaked in fear of being identified with Jesus (Mark 14:30, 50) were suddenly empowered to boldly proclaim the gospel of the risen Messiah, validating their message with miraculous signs and wonders (Acts 2:4, 38–41; 3:6–7; 8:7). Thousands of Jews from all parts of the world were in Jerusalem for the Feast of Pentecost. They heard the gospel in their own languages (Acts 2:5–8), and many believed (Acts 2:41; 4:4). Those who were saved were baptized, adding daily to the church. When persecution broke out, the believers scattered, taking the gospel message with them, and the church spread like wildfire to all parts of the known earth (Acts 8:4; 11:19–21).

The start of the church involved Jews in Jerusalem, but the church soon spread to other people groups. The Samaritanswere evangelized by Philip in Acts 8. In Acts 10, God gave Peter a vision that helped him understand that the message of salvation was not limited to the Jews but open to anyone who believed (Acts 10:34–35, 45). The salvation of the Ethiopian eunuch (Acts 8:26–39) and the Italian centurion Cornelius (Acts 10) convinced the Jewish believers that God’s church was broader than they had imagined. The miraculous calling of Paul on the road to Damascus (Acts 9:1–19) set the stage for an even greater spread of the gospel to the Gentiles (Romans 15:16; 1 Timothy 2:7).

Jesus’ prophetic words to Peter before the crucifixion have proved true. Though persecution and “the gates of Hades” have fought against it, the church only grows stronger. Revelation 7:9 provides a glimpse of the church as God designed it to be: “After this I looked, and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and before the Lamb.” The church that Jesus began will continue until the day He comes for us (John 14:3; 1 Thessalonians 4:16–17) and we are united with Him forever as His bride (Ephesians 5:27; 2 Corinthians 11:2; Revelation 19:7).

 

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On ‎12‎/‎7‎/‎2019 at 11:12 AM, johnthebaptist said:

I believe I see a contradiction in your reasoning. You say that "All scripture is for us and is to be believed" but then go on to say "but all [scripture] is not for us to obey." How can you believe something but not obey it?

My own belief is that everything Jesus and God said must be believed and obeyed. As for Paul and the others, we have much to learn from them - they were great people - but we are not required to obey them.

Luke 24:47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

If you were to obey everything would you not have gone to Jerusalem?

2 Thessalonians 3:14 says Paul is to be obeyed...And if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed.

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