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Israel according to the flesh, Israel in Spirit


JohnD

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47 minutes ago, JohnD said:

James 2:10 (AV)
10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.


Our only hope to keep Torah is by the imputed righteousness of the only man (God-man)

who perfectly kept it. And that imputed righteousness makes up the vast deficiency in our

keeping Torah. 

This is what is meant by:

Galatians 3:24–25 (AV)
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

This actually frees us from being compelled to keep laws to lovingly desiring to do for our loving God what he wills.

This is what King David (a man after God's own heart) thoroughly understood. 

It was not from his acts of courage or his "sinless life" ← which we could go to scripture and list how untrue that is...

it was his absolute trust in the LORD to make up the difference in the deficiencies in his life.

This is a point God was trying to get across to mankind from the very beginning.

"James 2:10 (AV)
10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all"

That's a REALLY good reason to make sure we keep ALL Torah!  Moses said it's NOT too difficult (Dt.30:11).  Luke agrees (Lk.1:6).

 

"Our only hope to keep Torah is by the imputed righteousness of the only man (God-man)"

Yes!  And we who receive imputed righteousness are those who also DO RIGHTEOUSNESS (1Jn.2:29;3:7) or else we are child of the devil (1Jn.3:10) who will NOT inherit the forthcoming kingdom (Mt.5:20).

 

"the only man (God-man) who perfectly kept it."

Careful!  Only Jesus kept Torah SINLESSLY.

But Jesus requires that WE keep all Torah (Mt.5:19) in perfection (Mt.5:48), and He says it's EASY! (Mt.11:30).

You CAN be perfect (Mt.5:48).  Jesus was not joking.

 

"This is what is meant by:

Galatians 3:24–25 (AV)
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster."

 

Yes, our inability to keep Torah SINLESSLY drives us to pursue Christ's redemption....Christ obeyed Torah SINLESSLY for us....so that He could be the once-for-all perfect and sinless sacrifice that takes away our sins by faith.

 

"This actually frees us from being compelled to keep laws to lovingly desiring to do for our loving God what he wills."

Well....we are compelled to love (Jn.14:15;1Jn.5:3;Dt.6:5,25).  So BEING COMPELLED and LOVINGLY DESIRING are not mutually exclusive.  It's both!

 

"This is what King David (a man after God's own heart) thoroughly understood. "

Yes....David understood heart-felt repentance...AND David obeyed Torah too.

 

"it was his absolute trust in the LORD to make up the difference in the deficiencies in his life."

Yes, God forgives us our sins.  We can't earn it.

AND, those who TRUST the LORD are those who OBEY Torah (Ps.37:3+Gal.6:10+Rom.7:12).

 

blessings...

 

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I used to think I had to keep God's law perfectly now - during this life.  I was carrying a very heavy burden.  Couldn't understand why/ how I could slip up (which did/does happen).  Then I read Ezekiel 36:24-27. 

Ezekiel 36:24 "For I will take you from the nations, gather you from all the lands, and bring you into your own land. 25 "Then I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your filthiness and from all your idols. 26 "Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. 27 "And I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will be careful to observe My ordinances." (NAS)

HIS work "in us" will not be complete UNTIL we are gathered from all nations and brought into the land promised to Abraham's Seed (who is Yeshua). 

I suddenly realized that HIS work "in" me won't be perfect until then.   Because I'm not yet "perfected", doesn't mean I will be "lost", and doesn't mean that HIS work in me has not begun. 

NOTE:  I do not believe the present "return" of DNA descendants from Jacob, into the present geopolitical land area named "Israel, constitutes the "return" described in this passage from Ezekiel.  I believe this present "return" (begun by mostly communist descendants of Jews from Russia, who fought their way into the land) is a COUNTERFEIT for the true return under Yeshua Messiah, which will come only after HIS glorious return.  

 

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1 hour ago, Resurrection Priest said:

I used to think I had to keep God's law perfectly now - during this life.  I was carrying a very heavy burden.  Couldn't understand why/ how I could slip up (which did/does happen).  Then I read Ezekiel 36:24-27. 

Ezekiel 36:24 "For I will take you from the nations, gather you from all the lands, and bring you into your own land. 25 "Then I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your filthiness and from all your idols. 26 "Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. 27 "And I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will be careful to observe My ordinances." (NAS)

HIS work "in us" will not be complete UNTIL we are gathered from all nations and brought into the land promised to Abraham's Seed (who is Yeshua). 

I suddenly realized that HIS work "in" me won't be perfect until then.   Because I'm not yet "perfected", doesn't mean I will be "lost", and doesn't mean that HIS work in me has not begun. 

NOTE:  I do not believe the present "return" of DNA descendants from Jacob, into the present geopolitical land area named "Israel, constitutes the "return" described in this passage from Ezekiel.  I believe this present "return" (begun by mostly communist descendants of Jews from Russia, who fought their way into the land) is a COUNTERFEIT for the true return under Yeshua Messiah, which will come only after HIS glorious return.  

 

"Because I'm not yet "perfected""

Well, Jesus said we CAN be perfect (Mt.5:48) and its easy (Mt.11:30).

So, let's be sure to align our conception of "perfection" with His.

 

And yes, the "return" in 1948 is not the full prophesied return....not even close!

BUT!  the stories about miraculous intervention (e.g., from the 6-day war) are astounding....God was CLEARLY supporting the "Jews" of that time to prevail.

 

blessings..

 

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On 12/12/2019 at 5:03 PM, BibleGuy said:

"Because I'm not yet "perfected""

Well, Jesus said we CAN be perfect (Mt.5:48) and its easy (Mt.11:30).

So, let's be sure to align our conception of "perfection" with His.

 

And yes, the "return" in 1948 is not the full prophesied return....not even close!

BUT!  the stories about miraculous intervention (e.g., from the 6-day war) are astounding....God was CLEARLY supporting the "Jews" of that time to prevail.

 

blessings..

 

Matthew 5:48  "Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect." 

"you shall be perfect"  could easily be a PROMISE of what we will someday become "in Christ".    For now - I have no perfection, except Yeshua's righteousness, imputed to me. 

I can't "be perfect" anymore than I can walk on water.  If I (like Peter) should one day "walk on water", that would totally be a miracle.  Yes it is "possible". 

Matthew 11:29"Take my yoke on you and learn from me, because I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy to bear, and my load is not hard to carry." (NET)

The reason HIS yoke is easy to bear, is because HE is the one doing the pulling - not me.   We "find rest" - not a lot more work.   It's HIS yoke.  We join Him, in HIS yoke. 

And NO, it's not my job to "have more faith".  Faith is a GIFT from God.  I can pray for it, but I cannot - of myself - just somehow generate it. 

 

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On 12/12/2019 at 5:03 PM, BibleGuy said:

And yes, the "return" in 1948 is not the full prophesied return....not even close!

BUT!  the stories about miraculous intervention (e.g., from the 6-day war) are astounding....God was CLEARLY supporting the "Jews" of that time to prevail.

Miracles are not proof that God is supporting something.  The Evil One can do miracles too. 

2 Corinthians 11:14 "There is nothing astonishing in this; even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light." (NJB)

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9 minutes ago, Resurrection Priest said:

Miracles are not proof that God is supporting something.  The Evil One can do miracles too. 

2 Corinthians 11:14 "There is nothing astonishing in this; even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light." (NJB)

And he deceived them by the means of the miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast .

EXACTLY .     Many do can miracles ,  show signs and wonders even , AND YET be WORKING FOR SATAN .  In fact we got many in churches doing just this today .

Many work under a spirit of divination and know it not .

I would leave a list of names , but carpal tunnel syndrome would for sure set in and freeze up my hands .  ITs that long a list .

Edited by frienduff thaylorde
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37 minutes ago, Resurrection Priest said:

Matthew 5:48  "Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect." 

"you shall be perfect"  could easily be a PROMISE of what we will someday become "in Christ".    For now - I have no perfection, except Yeshua's righteousness, imputed to me. 

I can't "be perfect" anymore than I can walk on water.  If I (like Peter) should one day "walk on water", that would totally be a miracle.  Yes it is "possible". 

Matthew 11:29"Take my yoke on you and learn from me, because I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy to bear, and my load is not hard to carry." (NET)

The reason HIS yoke is easy to bear, is because HE is the one doing the pulling - not me.   We "find rest" - not a lot more work.   It's HIS yoke.  We join Him, in HIS yoke. 

And NO, it's not my job to "have more faith".  Faith is a GIFT from God.  I can pray for it, but I cannot - of myself - just somehow generate it. 

 

Howdy!

" I can't "be perfect" anymore than I can walk on water.  "

Sure you can.  Mt.5:48 simply quotes Dt.18:13....you CAN be " תָּמִים ".....Jesus was not joking....it's easy (Mt.5:48).....

Moses AGREES it is not too difficult (Dt.30:11).

Luke AGREES you can obey all Torah (including Dt. 18:13 and it's quotation in Mt.5:48.....see Lk.1:6).

So don't confuse " תָּמִים " with SINLESSNESS...

Sure, we all may sin or stumble at times....but that's ok....you're still perfect if you walk in Torah.....after all, Torah PRESUMES that you will sin at times...that's WHY Torah includes the SIN OFFERING.

And, those who offer sin offerings, as needed, are " תָּמִים ".

CONCLUSION:  תָּמִים  is not SINLESSNESS.

 

"We "find rest" - not a lot more work. "

We find rest, because Torah-obedience is easy (Mt.11:30)!  It's NOT too difficult (Dt.30:11).  You can do it! (just as in Lk.1:6).  It's not "a lot more work"....it's EASY

 

" It's HIS yoke."

And YOKE is a term a rabbi uses to express the set of rules/requirements/regulations/beliefs associated with that rabbi.....and rabbi Yeshua requires ALL Torah (Mt.5:19) and says it's EASY (Mt.11:30).

 

" I can pray for it, but I cannot - of myself - just somehow generate it. "

Faith is something YOU CAN DO TO INSURE YOU HAVE IT (Mk.11:22).....otherwise Jesus would be giving an impossible command.

After all, Ps. 119:66 models faith in Torah....and Paul applies this to you (Eph.5:19;Col.3:16), because Paul requires FAITH (Rom.5:1) AND TORAH (Rom.2:13) TOGETHER for justification.

Not law alone (Gal.5:4-5).

Not faith alone (says James 2:24).

But BOTH.

TOGETHER.

TORAH is of FAITH (Mt.23:23).

You CHOOSE to obey Torah....or you CHOOSE to disobey Torah  (Dt.30:19).

CHOOSE to obey Torah in Faith and live!

This confirms faith is a CHOICE.

blessings...

 

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Faith IS a gift from God.   We hear the Word of God, and the Spirit of God (if we do not resist) opens our mind to understand and receive that word.  The result is belief and trust (faith). 

"God has given to each one his measure of faith." (Rom 12:3 NJB)

1 Corinthians 12:8 "For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit; 9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit; (1Co 12:8 KJV)

I do NOT just grit my teeth and decide to have more faith.  I pray humbly to receive more of that GIFT. 

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12 hours ago, Resurrection Priest said:

Miracles are not proof that God is supporting something.  The Evil One can do miracles too. 

2 Corinthians 11:14 "There is nothing astonishing in this; even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light." (NJB)

True....but satan desires destruction of the Jews.....anti-semitism is satanic......and the many wars waged against modern Israel were satanic.....so satan does NOT want the restoration of all things (Ac.3:21)....and the 1948 restoration is arguably a step in the direction of that restoration....and miracles CAN be proof that God is supporting something (Ex.3:20;Gal.3:5;Mt.11:21;Ac.2:22;Ac.19:11;Jn.14:11).....and I'd say God is behind the restoration of modern Israel, given the improbability that satan would desire:

1. Restoration/Enhancement of knowledge and awareness and study of Biblical Hebrew

2. Restoration/Enhancement of knowledge and awareness and study of the Tanach.

3. Preparation for rebuilding the temple (with sacrifices, which satan wants to STOP....Da.9:27)

4. Preparation for rebuilding the temple which plays a SIGNIFICANT ROLE in answering prayers of Torah-obedient people (1Ki.8:29)

5. Preparation for rebuilding the temple which plays a SIGNIFICANT ROLE in forgiving individual sins of Torah-obedient people (1Ki.8:30)

6. Preparation for rebuilding the temple which plays a SIGNIFICANT ROLE in bringing justice (1Ki.8:31-32)

7. Preparation for rebuilding the temple which plays a SIGNIFICANT ROLE in bringing corporate forgiveness (1Ki.8:34)

8. Preparation for rebuilding the temple which plays a SIGNIFICANT ROLE in bringing the RETURN of Israelites to the LAND (implying return of full Torah-obedience), 1Ki.8:34.

9. Preparation for rebuilding the temple which plays a SIGNIFICANT ROLE in bringing the GOOD WAY (Torah) to Israel (1Ki.8:36).

10. Preparation for rebuilding the temple which plays a SIGNIFICANT ROLE in keeping crops properly irrigated (1Ki.8:36).

11. Preparation for rebuilding the temple which plays a SIGNIFICANT ROLE in keeping the promised land as an INHERITANCE (1Ki.8:36).

12. Preparation for rebuilding the temple which plays a SIGNIFICANT ROLE in bringing elimination of famine (1Ki.8:37).

13. Preparation for rebuilding the temple which plays a SIGNIFICANT ROLE in bringing elimination of pestilence (1Ki.8:37).

14. Preparation for rebuilding the temple which plays a SIGNIFICANT ROLE in bringing elimination of plague (1Ki.8:37).

15. Preparation for rebuilding the temple which plays a SIGNIFICANT ROLE in bringing elimination of SICKNESS (1Ki.8:37).

16. Preparation for rebuilding the temple which plays a SIGNIFICANT ROLE in bringing proper fear of God (thus Torah-obedience) in the promised land as an inheritance (1Ki.8:40).

17. Preparation for rebuilding the temple which plays a SIGNIFICANT ROLE in providing visible proof of God's glory (1Ki.8:11).

18. Preparation for rebuilding the temple which plays a SIGNIFICANT ROLE in bringing EVANGELISM OF THE ENTIRE PLANET (1Ki.8:41-43,60).

19. Preparation for rebuilding the temple which plays a SIGNIFICANT ROLE in bringing support for Israel in war (1Ki.8:44-45).

20. Preparation for rebuilding the temple which plays a SIGNIFICANT ROLE in bringing THE FULFILLMENT OF DT.30:1-8 (1Ki.8:46-51).

 

You think satan WANTS any of this?  OF COURSE NOT!!

Temples have SACRIFICES (1Ki.8:63)....the enemy wants it to STOP (Da.9:27) so as to PREVENT the above 20 objectives.

So OF COURSE the enemy has now placed a counterfeit mosque upon the very Temple Mount.

That's what the enemy does......he tries to STOP and BLOCK God's objectives.....

The enemy planted nephilim in the promised land to hinder the Israelites in Moses' time....

And the enemy planted a mosque in an effort to hinder any possibility of a temple which could result in the above 20 objectives.

And the enemy has planted corrupted religious and political and governmental Jewish leaders in that very land now.

And the enemy has even tainted the eyes of those "Messianic" Jews evangelizing in Israel (e.g., "One For Israel")

 

But don't worry....God WILL prevail!  But surely not without a fight of historic proportions....

 

CONCLUSION:  I'd say God is up to something in modern-day Israel.....Joseph Good (a full-on Messianic believer) is even routinely consulted by Chaim Richman regarding Temple preparation details....because Joseph Good is so knowledgeable.

And Gush HaTanakhi is now formed in the Knesset!  https://www.breakingisraelnews.com/108290/for-the-first-time-ever-a-jewish-christian-party-to-run-for-knesset/

Avi is a cool guy....his party may play a significant role in the future....because if (when!) persecution of Israelites, globally, becomes so bad that the only safe place for us will be in Israel, then guess which party we will vote for?  Gush HaTanakhi!  And this could hurl modern Israel into a correct spiritual direction....surely something satan does not want.....thus again confirming that God is working in modern-day Israel, despite its many evils.

 

blessings...

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12 hours ago, Resurrection Priest said:

Faith IS a gift from God.   We hear the Word of God, and the Spirit of God (if we do not resist) opens our mind to understand and receive that word.  The result is belief and trust (faith). 

"God has given to each one his measure of faith." (Rom 12:3 NJB)

1 Corinthians 12:8 "For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit; 9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit; (1Co 12:8 KJV)

I do NOT just grit my teeth and decide to have more faith.  I pray humbly to receive more of that GIFT. 

Yes.....that's another side of the coin....

But that doesn't exclude us from the obligation to CHOOSE to partake in actions which result in faith.

We also CHOOSE (Dt.30:15-19;Jos.24:15)....otherwise Mk.11:22 is an impossible command....Jesus doesn't command someone to do something they can't do.

So you're right...there's also the gift of faith as well.

Two sides of a coin....

blessings...

 

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