ReneeIW Posted December 8, 2019 Group: Senior Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 42 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 944 Content Per Day: 0.54 Reputation: 780 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/06/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted December 8, 2019 34 minutes ago, missmuffet said: Or, it could just as easily be a fruit that does not exist on Earth today, some would suggest that it is a metaphor, and the aspect of it being fruit is not important, what is important was obeying the only law that God had made to that point, and thus mankind rebelled, sinned, and that lead to death (spiritual death - separation from God). I do wonder if the fruit was a "metaphor." Does Christ or Paul mention "fruit" when they refer to Adam's sin? And of course we know that 'fruit" is used as a metaphor in the New Testament by Christ. Also, God does not tempt us.I don't believe He would have a piece of fruit hanging within reach of Adam and Eve and then tell them not to touch it. Why not have the fruit on a tall tree too high for them to reach? Hmmm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael37 Posted December 8, 2019 Group: Servant Followers: 21 Topic Count: 241 Topics Per Day: 0.11 Content Count: 6,932 Content Per Day: 3.27 Reputation: 4,864 Days Won: 2 Joined: 07/05/2018 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/23/1954 Share Posted December 8, 2019 3 hours ago, ReneeIW said: I do wonder if the fruit was a "metaphor." Does Christ or Paul mention "fruit" when they refer to Adam's sin? And of course we know that 'fruit" is used as a metaphor in the New Testament by Christ. Also, God does not tempt us.I don't believe He would have a piece of fruit hanging within reach of Adam and Eve and then tell them not to touch it. Why not have the fruit on a tall tree too high for them to reach? Hmmm The test of obedience would cease to exist if it were not just as the Bible says it was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis1209 Posted December 8, 2019 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 18 Topic Count: 347 Topics Per Day: 0.13 Content Count: 7,460 Content Per Day: 2.70 Reputation: 5,375 Days Won: 1 Joined: 09/27/2016 Status: Offline Author Share Posted December 8, 2019 14 hours ago, Omegaman 3.0 said: I am thinking that perhaps, assigning the name Lucifer to equate with Satan (while popular) might be a bit weak. Lucifer (the name) only occurs in one verse. The context of that verse seems to be addressed to the king of Babylon, and later in that chapter, he is referred to as a man. Certainly, he was prideful, whoever he was, but I do not think you will find anyone in history, assuming that Lucifer was Satan before Jerome's translation sometime after 390 A.D. The idea was that he is called a light bearer in some translation (the name Lucifer having to do with light). Referred to also in some translations, as the morning star. Early on, that was thought to be the planet Venus. Check out the Hebrew some time, and see if that name occurs elsewhere in the Bible, and if it is a proper name, or has a definition. We have since built up the idea that this passage in Isaiah, refers to Satan, but the evidence is pretty slim. There are other morning star references, not all referring to the same thing: Isaiah 14:12 "How you have fallen from heaven, O star of the morning, son of the dawn! You have been cut down to the earth, You who have weakened the nations! (This is the Lucifer verse) 2 Peter 1:19 So we have the prophetic word made more sure, to which you do well to pay attention as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star arises in your hearts. Job 38:7 When the morning stars sang together And all the sons of God shouted for joy? Revelation 22:16 "I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things for the churches I am the root and the descendant of David, the bright morning star." Revelation 2:28 and I will give him the morning star. and possibly this relates: Numbers 24:17 "I see him, but not now; I behold him, but not near; A star shall come forth from Jacob, A scepter shall rise from Israel, And shall crush through the forehead of Moab, And tear down all the sons of Sheth. This is outside the scope of the questions (that look like some sort of a trap, baiting for an agenda, lol), but I thought I would chime in and suggest that people not always assume everything they commonly hear from Christians, is necessarily well established in scripture. Carry on! Oh boy, could we have a jolly good conversation on all of the above and give pages of scripture to support our views Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missmuffet Posted December 8, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 34 Topic Count: 1,991 Topics Per Day: 0.48 Content Count: 48,689 Content Per Day: 11.81 Reputation: 30,343 Days Won: 226 Joined: 01/11/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted December 8, 2019 Thanks Dennis for those questions. It makes for a very interesting Bible discussion 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adstar Posted December 9, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 12 Topic Count: 75 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,399 Content Per Day: 0.43 Reputation: 1,307 Days Won: 1 Joined: 09/01/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted December 9, 2019 On 12/8/2019 at 4:25 AM, Dennis1209 said: No doubt you're going to see where this is heading by these easy questions. (1) Whom sinned first and whom is the 'father of sin'? (2) Was death and sin present in the world and universe before the fall of Adam & Eve? (3) Who was a murderer from the beginning? [Hint: No, Cain is not in the beginning]. (4) Was Adam made and formed 'mortal'? 1) satan 2)No. 3)satan 4)No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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