joebloggs Posted December 13, 2019 Group: Junior Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 105 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 34 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/20/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted December 13, 2019 Just now, Alive said: Rom. 7:4 Therefore, my brethren, you also were amade to die bto the Law cthrough the body of Christ, so that you might be joined to another, to Him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God. 5 For while we were ain the flesh, the sinful passions, which were baroused by the Law, were at work cin 1the members of our body to bear fruit for death. 6 But now we have been areleased from the Law, having bdied to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in cnewness of dthe 1Spirit and not in oldness of the letter. Yeah it sais loads of times in the new testament we dont have to follow the torah anymore. Its obsolete. It's been replaced. Jesus is the new high priest and his new covenant replaces the old one. I was just wondering if this chap is actually living as a jew like he claims or if hes just saying you should. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alive Posted December 13, 2019 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 22 Topic Count: 194 Topics Per Day: 0.12 Content Count: 11,053 Content Per Day: 6.58 Reputation: 9,010 Days Won: 36 Joined: 09/12/2019 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/09/1956 Share Posted December 13, 2019 Just now, joebloggs said: Yeah it sais loads of times in the new testament we dont have to follow the torah anymore. Its obsolete. It's been replaced. Jesus is the new high priest and his new covenant replaces the old one. I was just wondering if this chap is actually living as a jew like he claims or if hes just saying you should. He has been repeating his litany continually regardless of what scriptures are pointed out to him. Every now and then some of us post scriptures that are clear on the subject in case confused young ones are watching. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BibleGuy Posted December 13, 2019 Group: Senior Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 777 Content Per Day: 0.48 Reputation: 224 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/05/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted December 13, 2019 2 minutes ago, joebloggs said: So you observe all the ritual washings and dietary instructions? And you observe all of the feasts obviously? The feasts are technically not observable in diaspora (Lam.1:4). So Paul's commandment to keep the feasts (e.g., 1Cor.5:7-8;Col.2:17;also Heb.10:1) is viewed as a commandment to keep them in COMMEMORATIVE fashion...until, of course, Dt. 30:1-8 happens, when we will again be able to obey 100%. But it's nice to commemorate the feasts....LOTS of Messianic symbolism going on there! And, ritual washings required by elders are NOT required traditions (Mk.7). In fact, Jesus opposed them because they were being used to CONTRADICT the Torah itself....Jesus wants TORAH to be obeyed (Mk.7:8-9,13;Mt.5:19)....NOT traditions which contradict Torah. You can do traditions if you want (1Cor.9:2), but extra-biblical traditions are not required. blessings... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BibleGuy Posted December 13, 2019 Group: Senior Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 777 Content Per Day: 0.48 Reputation: 224 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/05/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted December 13, 2019 1 minute ago, Alive said: He has been repeating his litany continually regardless of what scriptures are pointed out to him. Every now and then some of us post scriptures that are clear on the subject in case confused young ones are watching. I uphold EVERY Scripture....I'm the BIBLE GUY! Jesus requires all Torah (Mt.5:19)....I trust you accept Jesus' words. blessings... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BibleGuy Posted December 13, 2019 Group: Senior Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 777 Content Per Day: 0.48 Reputation: 224 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/05/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted December 13, 2019 5 minutes ago, joebloggs said: Yeah it sais loads of times in the new testament we dont have to follow the torah anymore. Its obsolete. It's been replaced. Jesus is the new high priest and his new covenant replaces the old one. I was just wondering if this chap is actually living as a jew like he claims or if hes just saying you should. " Its obsolete. " Careful! The Old COVENANT is obsolete (Heb.8:13). But the SAME TORAH passes into the NEW Covenant (see "תּוֹרָה" in Jer.31:33 cited at Heb.8:10 and 10:16). NEW Covenant (Jer.31:31;Heb.8:8). SAME Torah (Jer.31:33;Heb.8:10;10:16). "It's been replaced. " Actually, the SAME TORAH passes into the NEW Covenant (see "תּוֹרָה" in Jer.31:33 cited at Heb.8:10 and 10:16). "his new covenant replaces the old one." Yes. And the SAME TORAH passes into the NEW Covenant (see "תּוֹרָה" in Jer.31:33 cited at Heb.8:10 and 10:16). Torah was largely DISOBEYED in the Old Covenant (Heb.8:9). Torah is properly OBEYED in the New Covenant (Heb.8:10). blessings... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joebloggs Posted December 13, 2019 Group: Junior Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 105 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 34 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/20/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted December 13, 2019 1 minute ago, BibleGuy said: The feasts are technically not observable in diaspora (Lam.1:4). So Paul's commandment to keep the feasts (e.g., 1Cor.5:7-8;Col.2:17;also Heb.10:1) is viewed as a commandment to keep them in COMMEMORATIVE fashion...until, of course, Dt. 30:1-8 happens, when we will again be able to obey 100%. But it's nice to commemorate the feasts....LOTS of Messianic symbolism going on there! And, ritual washings required by elders are NOT required traditions (Mk.7). In fact, Jesus opposed them because they were being used to CONTRADICT the Torah itself....Jesus wants TORAH to be obeyed (Mk.7:8-9,13;Mt.5:19)....NOT traditions which contradict Torah. You can do traditions if you want (1Cor.9:2), but extra-biblical traditions are not required. blessings... So you dont actually follow the instructions given in the Torah. I dont either. I have also found the rest of the bible points out they are no longer necessary and have been replaced. Even obsolete. I'm pleased you dont actually follow the instructions of the Torah. You should defo listen to what Jesus has to say and take your instructions from him as a Christian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alive Posted December 13, 2019 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 22 Topic Count: 194 Topics Per Day: 0.12 Content Count: 11,053 Content Per Day: 6.58 Reputation: 9,010 Days Won: 36 Joined: 09/12/2019 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/09/1956 Share Posted December 13, 2019 It is important for folks to understand that Jesus was the last OT prophet and that He was sent to Israel and was speaking to Jews on most every occasion. His words need to be heard from the context of the hearers. Those hearers were under Moses, as was Jesus. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BibleGuy Posted December 13, 2019 Group: Senior Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 777 Content Per Day: 0.48 Reputation: 224 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/05/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted December 13, 2019 10 minutes ago, Alive said: Rom. 7:4 Therefore, my brethren, you also were amade to die bto the Law cthrough the body of Christ, so that you might be joined to another, to Him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God. 5 For while we were ain the flesh, the sinful passions, which were baroused by the Law, were at work cin 1the members of our body to bear fruit for death. 6 But now we have been areleased from the Law, having bdied to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in cnewness of dthe 1Spirit and not in oldness of the letter. That SAME PAUL continues to SERVE TORAH (Rom.7:25). STOP ignoring the context! Thanks..... We are dead to the law (Rom.7:4) of SIN AND DEATH (Rom.8:2)...but NOT dead to the law of obedience (2Ti.3:16;Mt.5:19;Jn.14:15;1Jn.5:3) and LIFE(Mt.4:4;Dt.8:3 referencing Torah;Dt.30:15-19;32:47). Paul UPHOLDS Christ (Rom.7:4). Christ requires all Torah (Mt.5:19). Paul UPHOLDS fruit (Rom.7:4). FRUIT includes FAITH (which is of Torah, Mt.23:23;Dt.32:20;Ps.119:30,86,138). Paul UPHOLDS fruit (Rom.7:4). FRUIT includes JOY (we REJOICE in Torah, Ps. 119:162). Paul UPHOLDS fruit (Rom.7:4). FRUIT includes PEACE. We have peace in loving Torah (Ps.119:165)...not opposing it! Paul UPHOLDS fruit (Rom.7:4). FRUIT includes GOODNESS. Torah is good (Rom.7:12). So bear the fruit of Torah-obedience! After all, Paul requires ALL Torah (2Ti.3:16)....so it makes no sense to pretend Paul opposes Torah in Rom.7. And, Paul OPPOSES the flesh (Rom.7:5) which DISOBEYS Torah (Rom.8:7). So OBEY Torah! Don't be in the flesh! And, we are released from the law (Rom.7:6) of sin and death (Rom.8:2)....but that's no excuse to ignore the law of obedience (2Ti.3:16;Mt.5:19;Jn.14:15;1Jn.5:3) and LIFE(Mt.4:4;Dt.8:3 referencing Torah;Dt.30:15-19;32:47). And, we SERVE IN THE SPIRIT (Rom.7:6). Serve what? TORAH! (Rom.7:25). After all, the SPIRIT testifies we obey Torah (Heb.10:15-16) "from now and forever" (citing Is.59:20-21 at Rom.11:26-27). So OBEY TORAH in the Spirit! (not in the oldness of the letter without the Spirit) blessings... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BibleGuy Posted December 13, 2019 Group: Senior Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 777 Content Per Day: 0.48 Reputation: 224 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/05/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted December 13, 2019 6 minutes ago, joebloggs said: So you dont actually follow the instructions given in the Torah. I dont either. I have also found the rest of the bible points out they are no longer necessary and have been replaced. Even obsolete. I'm pleased you dont actually follow the instructions of the Torah. You should defo listen to what Jesus has to say and take your instructions from him as a Christian. "So you dont actually follow the instructions given in the Torah. " Torah doesn't require that you observe instruction that are unobservable in diaspora. Torah PREDICTS that we will not be able to obey again 100% until AFTER we return (Dt.30:1-8). So, we grow in obedience to presently observable Torah portions.....for example, Lev. 11 is an easy start (and Peter applies Lev. 11 to you explicitly, 1Pe1:16). " they are no longer necessary and have been replaced. Even obsolete." Careful! It can't be obsolete if we will again obey 100%! Moses did NOT lie. We WILL again obey 100% (Dt.30:1-8). So, start with what you CAN do....like Lev. 11. And, the Old COVENANT is obsolete (Heb.8:13)...NOT the SAME TORAH which passes into the NEW Covenant. "You should defo listen to what Jesus has to say and take your instructions from him as a Christian." Ok....now read Mt. 5:19. Jesus requires ALL Torah. Now read Mt. 28:19-20. Jesus applies these to you. blessings... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joebloggs Posted December 13, 2019 Group: Junior Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 105 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 34 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/20/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted December 13, 2019 Just now, BibleGuy said: That SAME PAUL continues to SERVE TORAH (Rom.7:25). STOP ignoring the context! Thanks..... We are dead to the law (Rom.7:4) of SIN AND DEATH (Rom.8:2)...but NOT dead to the law of obedience (2Ti.3:16;Mt.5:19;Jn.14:15;1Jn.5:3) and LIFE(Mt.4:4;Dt.8:3 referencing Torah;Dt.30:15-19;32:47). Paul UPHOLDS Christ (Rom.7:4). Christ requires all Torah (Mt.5:19). Paul UPHOLDS fruit (Rom.7:4). FRUIT includes FAITH (which is of Torah, Mt.23:23;Dt.32:20;Ps.119:30,86,138). Paul UPHOLDS fruit (Rom.7:4). FRUIT includes JOY (we REJOICE in Torah, Ps. 119:162). Paul UPHOLDS fruit (Rom.7:4). FRUIT includes PEACE. We have peace in loving Torah (Ps.119:165)...not opposing it! Paul UPHOLDS fruit (Rom.7:4). FRUIT includes GOODNESS. Torah is good (Rom.7:12). So bear the fruit of Torah-obedience! After all, Paul requires ALL Torah (2Ti.3:16)....so it makes no sense to pretend Paul opposes Torah in Rom.7. And, Paul OPPOSES the flesh (Rom.7:5) which DISOBEYS Torah (Rom.8:7). So OBEY Torah! Don't be in the flesh! And, we are released from the law (Rom.7:6) of sin and death (Rom.8:2)....but that's no excuse to ignore the law of obedience (2Ti.3:16;Mt.5:19;Jn.14:15;1Jn.5:3) and LIFE(Mt.4:4;Dt.8:3 referencing Torah;Dt.30:15-19;32:47). And, we SERVE IN THE SPIRIT (Rom.7:6). Serve what? TORAH! (Rom.7:25). After all, the SPIRIT testifies we obey Torah (Heb.10:15-16) "from now and forever" (citing Is.59:20-21 at Rom.11:26-27). So OBEY TORAH in the Spirit! (not in the oldness of the letter without the Spirit) blessings... You claim that we should follow ALL of the instructions in the torah. BUT you dont follow the instructions of the Torah because.... they're not currently relevant. Just to clarify that is your position right? I'm presuming you dont do any of the sacrifices or offerings either? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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