Does Daniel 9:26b-27 Prophesy About End Time Events?

[WilliamL]

6 minutes ago, OldCoot said:

Matthew 24:15 (NKJV) "Therefore when you see the 'abomination of desolation,' spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place" (whoever reads, let him understand)

uh... Right.

Right. Daniel 12:11, which is to come, not Dan. 11:31, which was historically fulfilled, with no mention by Daniel or Jesus that it has anything to do with the End Times.

[WilliamL]

On 1/3/2020 at 12:51 AM, Da Puppers said:

Dan 9:21-23 T4T    [While I was praying, Gabriel, the angel/one whom I had seen in the vision previously, came flying rapidly to me, at the time in the evening when the priests offered sacrifices. He said to me, 'Daniel, I have come to you to enable you to understand [DOU] clearly the message that God gave to Jeremiah. When you began to plead with God, he gave me a message to pass on to you . He loves you very much, so he has sent me to tell you what he said to me. So now ◄pay attention/listen carefully► in order that you may understand the meaning of what he revealed to Jeremiah.']

How convenient. You just write into a passage what you believe it should mean. This is called eisegesis.

No sound biblical translator or expositor uses eisegesis.

The pesha/apostasy/"transgression" of Daniel 9:24 is a direct reference to the pesha spoken of in Daniel 8:12, 13, and 23, which only indirectly relates to the fulfillment of the 490 years. So yes, the 490 years of Jeremiah are part of the message of Daniel 9:24-27, but the vision Gabriel refers to is that of Daniel 8. In Jeremiah 25:1ff., wherein Jeremiah received "the word" of the LORD concerning the 70 years prophecy, no vision is mentioned.

Daniel 10:18 כְּמַרְאֵה אָדָם = like the mareh/appearance/form/vision of a man. Not, like the interpretation of a man.

 

[R. Hartono]

On 12/13/2019 at 4:15 AM, WilliamL said:

27 And he shall cause to prevail/confirm (or, shall make strong) a covenant for the multitude one week;

Could you show where in Israel's history there was ever made a SEVEN YEARS COVENANT ?

[WilliamL]

On 1/12/2020 at 9:47 PM, R. Hartono said:

On 12/12/2019 at 2:15 PM, WilliamL said:

27 And he shall cause to prevail/confirm (or, shall make strong) a covenant for the multitude one week;

Could you show where in Israel's history there was ever made a SEVEN YEARS COVENANT ?

I have already explained this passage in my second post at the beginning of this string.

[WilliamL]

On 1/8/2020 at 2:59 PM, Da Puppers said:

If I understand you right,  then you are saying that, ...

The reason that Gabriel is come to interpret the vision (of Daniel 8) is because the "word of the Lord that came to Jeremiah,  Dan 9:2" is not a "vision" and therefore needs no interpretation.  Good luck with that. 

Jer. 25:1 The word that came to Jeremiah concerning all the people of Judah, in the fourth year of Jehoiakim the son of Josiah, king of Judah (which was the first year of Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon)... 11 ...this whole land shall be a desolation and an astonishment, and these nations shall serve the king of Babylon seventy years.

NEITHER  the terms chazon nor mareh are EVER used in Jeremiah in reference to any message he received from the LORD. He heard God's voice directly, not in visions.

Good luck with explaining why Gabriel's use of these terms could refer to Jeremiah.

[R. Hartono]

15 hours ago, WilliamL said:

I have already explained this passage in my second post at the beginning of this string.

1. There was no 7 YEARS PEACE DEAL as the rebell continued by Bar Kothba around 120 AD. The Jews who submit to Roman ruler were spared but it was not a 7 years PEACE DEAL from the start.

2. There was no MASS EXODUS out of ISRAEL at 70 AD prophesied by Jesus at the AOD, because the Gospel must be preached to the world first, the Jews remained Israel until Bar Kothba rebellion circa 120 AD which was the most destructive to the Roman.

Mat 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come. 15 So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination of desolation,’ described by the prophet Daniel (let the reader understand), 16then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.… 17 Let no one on the housetop go down to take anything out of the house. 18And let no one in the field return for his cloak.

3. There was no MICHAEL yet saving the Jews from the uncomparable destruction.

Daniel 12:1 "At that time Michael, the great prince who protects your people, will arise. There will be a time of distress such as has not happened from the beginning of nations until then. But at that time your people--everyone whose name is found written in the book--will be delivered.
 

OK ?

Edited January 16, 2020 by R. Hartono

[WilliamL]

On 1/15/2020 at 9:22 PM, R. Hartono said:

1. There was no 7 YEARS PEACE DEAL as the rebell continued by Bar Kothba around 120 AD. The Jews who submit to Roman ruler were spared but it was not a 7 years PEACE DEAL from the start.

2. There was no MASS EXODUS out of ISRAEL at 70 AD prophesied by Jesus at the AOD, because the Gospel must be preached to the world first, the Jews remained Israel until Bar Kothba rebellion circa 120 AD which was the most destructive to the Roman.

Mat 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come. 15 So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination of desolation,’ described by the prophet Daniel (let the reader understand), 16then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.… 17 Let no one on the housetop go down to take anything out of the house. 18And let no one in the field return for his cloak.

3. There was no MICHAEL yet saving the Jews from the uncomparable destruction.

Daniel 12:1 "At that time Michael, the great prince who protects your people, will arise. There will be a time of distress such as has not happened from the beginning of nations until then. But at that time your people--everyone whose name is found written in the book--will be delivered.
 

1. The term "7 year peace deal" is not mentioned in Daniel 9:27: that is your very presumptive reading of the text. Your reading is not scripture.

2. Daniel 9:27 refers to no "mass exodus out of Israel."

3. Likewise, Michael is not mentioned in Daniel 9:27. Daniel 9:27 is NOT about the End Times: Daniel 11:40ff. is.

 

[WilliamL]

On 1/16/2020 at 11:01 AM, Da Puppers said:

A crucial point to Daniel 9 is their failure to repent.  To which Gabriel comes forth with haste of God's commandment to now explain how the mosaic covenant will be implemented in accordance with a sevenfold punishment to finish the transgression.   To believe that the desolations of Jerusalem extended beyond the time of the Cyrus decree,  means that God,  the Lord their God,  has broken the covenant that he made with them,  abhors them and has cast them off.   To believe that the 70 week prophecy,  which concerns the desolaions of Jerusalem did not begin until many years later is for God to violate the terms of his covenant that he has made with them.   God cannot remember a covenant that he has made,  if he has already broken it.

If you are implying that the 490 years prophecy of Daniel 9 began at the decree of Cyrus, then you have a historical problem. That decree took place in 537 BC. If you start the 490 years then, then they would have been completed long before the Messiah was even born.

[R. Hartono]

12 hours ago, WilliamL said:

1. The term "7 year peace deal" is not mentioned in Daniel 9:27: that is your very presumptive reading of the text. Your reading is not scripture.

2. Daniel 9:27 refers to no "mass exodus out of Israel."

3. Likewise, Michael is not mentioned in Daniel 9:27. Daniel 9:27 is NOT about the End Times: Daniel 11:40ff. is.

 

1. Gabriel told Daniel it was meant for 7 years, did he tell it for no good ? 

2. Did Jesus explain the exodus at the AOD for no good ?

3. It doesnt matter which verse was that Michael is mentioned the point is the book of Daniel refers to Michael who will appear to save the Hebrew at the end of times. This is explained in the book of Revelation 12 when the dragon try to drown the woman with the water from its mouth.

 

 

 

[WilliamL]

On 1/21/2020 at 10:40 PM, R. Hartono said:

1. Gabriel told Daniel it was meant for 7 years, did he tell it for no good ? 

2. Did Jesus explain the exodus at the AOD for no good ?

3. It doesnt matter which verse was that Michael is mentioned the point is the book of Daniel refers to Michael who will appear to save the Hebrew at the end of times. This is explained in the book of Revelation 12 when the dragon try to drown the woman with the water from its mouth.

1. Daniel 9:27 makes a prophecy about 7 years, which 7 years were God's judgment upon the Jews, and specifically their priesthood, for their pesha/rebellion/apostasy. Those 7 years were fulfilled during the Jewish War of 66-73 AD, wherein the Temple and Jerusalem were destroyed (Dan. 9:26-27), ending the rule of the Aaronic priesthood. These things are explained in detail in the second post of this string.

2. The abomination of desolation quotation by Jesus in Matt. 24:15 is from Daniel 12:11, which is End Times. Has nothing to do with Daniel 9.

3. Michael standing up also is End Times and has nothing to do with Daniel 9.

You've been reading too much Hal Lindsey-type stuff. Those folks make lots of assertions which they cannot support. Nothing in Daniel 9 even mentions the End Times. Please read and closely study the first post in this string.