Where we all will go in death, Sheol.

[Guest Bandit]

11 minutes ago, johnthebaptist said:

Or heaven is already here (Matt 4:17) and all we have to do to enter in is repent of our sin.

Matt..4.17..."From That Time Yahshua began to preach, and to say, repent; for the Kingdom Of Heaven is at hand"....now were able to actually goto the real Kingdom Where The Messiah is acting as High priest to this very day...but were still gonna have to comfortably wait in His presence, during death.(sheol). Till he comes back..then he will separate good from wicked, each to thier permanent location. 

[Guest Bandit]

2 minutes ago, johnthebaptist said:

My experience is that repentance brings peace. Are we really in heaven if we don't have peace?

Its our duty to repent as Followers. And Fear and Love. And yes peace has became a major goal in my life right now haha..

Edited December 18, 2019 by Bandit

[johnthebaptist]

1 minute ago, Bandit said:

Matt..4.17..."From That Time Yahshua began to preach, and to say, repent; for the Kingdom Of Heaven is at hand"....now were able to actually goto the real Kingdom Where The Messiah is acting as High priest to this very day...but were still gonna have to comfortably wait in His presence, during death.(sheol). Till he comes back..then he will separate good from wicked, each to thier permanent location. 

Who said anything about waiting? Seems to me the gate if open - all we have to do is repent of our sin.

[Guest Bandit]

1 hour ago, johnthebaptist said:

Who said anything about waiting? Seems to me the gate if open - all we have to do is repent of our sin.

Some People in those times didnt even believe in resurrection,... just that either u wld be  in comfort or in torment in sheol...so this Word of ressurection into the actual Kingdom of heaven was amazing and New. Bc before the Messiah we all was just either in repose or in torment after death, some belived we cld be resurrected,and others didnt...The Messiah let it be known, we can and will be resurrected and not only that but wel get to go into the actual kingdom!, get a new body etc...all this was a amazing word to hear for people and still is.....how we know we gotta wait in sheol like all other humans always have, is bc He says we wont inherit the Kingdom until He returns.... 

Edited December 18, 2019 by Bandit

[JohnD]

Humanity DID go to Sheol in death before the cross of Christ.

Luke 16:19–31 (AV)
19 There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:
20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,
21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man’s table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.
22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham’s bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father’s house:
28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.
29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

Sheol is described as having three compartments / divisions.

The side of suffering, the side of promise (Abraham's bosom), and the gulf (or abyss) between the two... which did not hinder their

ability to see the other side or communicate with the other side....

But the day of the Lord's death on the cross:

Ephesians 4:8–10 (AV)
8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.
9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?
10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)

All who were in the side of promise (Abraham's bosom) Jesus came to as a disembodied Spirit (God the Word in fact),

declared the victory to those in prison in the side of suffering AND in the abyss (Jude 6, Revelation 20:1-3):

1 Peter 3:18–22 (AV)
18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
22 Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.

The he took the disembodied spirits of the people in the side of promise (Abraham's bosom) to heaven (Ephesians 4:8-10)

where they are to this day awaiting the Lord's return when the dead in Christ shall rise first in the resurrection of the dead (1 Thessalonians 4:16-18, Jude 14-15).

Since the cross of Christ. Abraham's bosom is empty.

And when a believer in Jesus Christ dies (since the cross) we go to heaven as disembodied

spirits also awaiting the Lord Jesus's return and the general resurrection of our permanent

spirit-bodies.

Be blessed.

[Guest Bandit]

53 minutes ago, Sonshine said:

Yes, there is much confusion about this. The Great White Throne Judgement occurs after the millennium, and the millennium occurs immediately after (or simultaneously) at the 2nd coming of Jesus Christ at the 7th trump.

Yea they defiantly arnt, thats also why Christians dont believe Torah is still active, even tho Messiah said Himself, it would he easier for heaven and earth to pass away than The Law(The Torah) and that not one yod or the smallest letter shall be changed from the law(the Torah) and that He has not come to destroy but to establish. 

This is the time of the great gathering together of the church I believe, Time for Jews to accept Messiah and time for Christians to become Jews....btw Christians are alredy keeping upto 80% of Torah, just have to cut out the bull crap Ignatius of Antioch did, with the paganism intertwined and creating a whole other NON jewish religion, different from that of what was Taught by Messiah and the apostles. 

[Guest Bandit]

1 hour ago, JohnD said:

Humanity DID go to Sheol in death before the cross of Christ.

Luke 16:19–31 (AV)
19 There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:
20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,
21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man’s table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.
22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham’s bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father’s house:
28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.
29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

Sheol is described as having three compartments / divisions.

The side of suffering, the side of promise (Abraham's bosom), and the gulf (or abyss) between the two... which did not hinder their

ability to see the other side or communicate with the other side....

But the day of the Lord's death on the cross:

Ephesians 4:8–10 (AV)
8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.
9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?
10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)

All who were in the side of promise (Abraham's bosom) Jesus came to as a disembodied Spirit (God the Word in fact),

declared the victory to those in prison in the side of suffering AND in the abyss (Jude 6, Revelation 20:1-3):

1 Peter 3:18–22 (AV)
18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
22 Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.

The he took the disembodied spirits of the people in the side of promise (Abraham's bosom) to heaven (Ephesians 4:8-10)

where they are to this day awaiting the Lord's return when the dead in Christ shall rise first in the resurrection of the dead (1 Thessalonians 4:16-18, Jude 14-15).

Since the cross of Christ. Abraham's bosom is empty.

And when a believer in Jesus Christ dies (since the cross) we go to heaven as disembodied

spirits also awaiting the Lord Jesus's return and the general resurrection of our permanent

spirit-bodies.

Be blessed.

This is a common belief amoung Christians, that we will no longer have to die(goto sheol) it is not scriptural, it says we will rise from the dead(the dead in Messiah shall rise first) when He returns. Only people that arnt going to Sheol is the ones whos still alive when He comes back, Soon hopefully! Haha.

Bit if u really read the scripture ONLY and scrap all what man has told you, it obvious No1 is gonna inherit His Kingdom until that Great day...and not one scripture contradicts that, that ive seen yet, and ive seen a whole lot from ppl trying to prove this wrong. And they CANT. Bc its true, but it really just matters if you have recieved salvation, bc just like a nice deep sleep u dont feel time, so we will just wake up! To Messiah Yahshua taking us to The Kingdom! Literally brought back to life, the spirit reconnects to the soul. And we will have The gift of eternal life and will never have to die(goto sheol) again! Amen and Thank you Holy Father!

P.s We are waiting for Messiah just as the righteous in the Tanach (old testement) was, they waited since Adam. We waiting since His resurrection. All Humans must die, its what we get for learning knowledge of good n Evil lol...and the Dead in Messiah will be in Repose until the inheritence comes. So no worries at all. The OT waited for Messiah, now the NT waits for messiah, and thats why it says so often the only time we get our inheritance, Eternal Life, The Kingdom,, is That Great Day. 

Edited January 5, 2020 by Bandit

[JohnD]

5 minutes ago, Bandit said:

This is a common belief amoung Christians, that we will no longer have to die(goto sheol) it is not scriptural, it says we will rise from the dead(the dead in Messiah shall rise first) when He returns. Only people that arnt going to Sheol is the ones whos still alive when He comes back, Soon hopefully! Haha.

Bit if u really read the scripture ONLY and scrap all what man has told you, it obvious No1 is gonna inherit His Kingdom until that Great day...and not one scripture contradicts that, that ive seen yet, and ive seen a whole lot from ppl trying to prove this wrong. And they CANT. Bc its true, but it really just matters if you have recieved salvation, bc just like a nice deep sleep u dont feel time, so we will just wake up! To Messiah Yahshua taking us to The Kingdom! Literally brought back to life, the spirit reconnects to the soul. And we will have The gift of eternal life and will never have to die(goto sheol) again! Amen and Thank you Holy Father!

P.s We are waiting for Messiah just as the righteous in the Tanach (old testement) was, they waited since Adam. We waiting since His resurrection. All Humans must die, its what we get for learning knowledge of good n Evil lol and it tge Dead in Messiah will be in Repose until the inheritence comes. So no worries at all.

So do spirits rise from the dead?

Or bodies... in your belief system, I mean?

[Guest Bandit]

Just now, JohnD said:

So do spirits rise from the dead?

Or bodies... in your belief system, I mean?

Souls do, spirit is what makes the souls alive, when a life dies, say a bird...where dies its life go? It goes back to The One who gave it, just as The rivers pour into the ocean and ocean returns back to the rivers on the other side.  And when we die, Our spirit, our breath of Life will return back to the One who gave it, while WE our souls will be carried to sheol, and separated Good from evil.

[JohnD]

Clearly, the body returns to dust and does not go to Sheol.

Ecclesiastes 12:7 (AV)
7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

Genesis 2:7 (AV)
7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

And the raising / redemption is of our body:

Romans 8:23 (AV)
23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

So, your belief, Bandit, appears to be the one that goes against scripture.