Billiards Ball Posted January 6, 2020 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,502 Content Per Day: 0.66 Reputation: 662 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/05/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted January 6, 2020 1 minute ago, Betha said: Yes, GOD separated the 10 from the 613 way back at Ex 20; Deut 5 (v22) to carry forward as spiritual and eternal Rom 7, and Jesus enlarged on in the sermon on the mount not to sin in mind and heart. He dealt with the commandments contained in ordinances/works on the cross Eph 2v15; Col2v14. The 10 contain everything we should do and should not do ....in the spirit where it all starts, good and evil thoughts. Christians have a problem with the 10 Commandments ...because they contain ...the SABBATH....which they reject/deny or replace....thus breaking them which is Sin 1Joh 3v4; Jas 2v11. Hi Betha, There are no scriptural statements in either testament that the 10 are somewhere separated from the 613. It is a not a sin to break the Sabbath. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeauJangles Posted January 6, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 44 Topic Count: 229 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 10,900 Content Per Day: 2.93 Reputation: 12,145 Days Won: 68 Joined: 02/13/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/14/1954 Share Posted January 6, 2020 1 minute ago, Billiards Ball said: It is a not a sin to break the Sabbath. Amen. At one time I had to work on the Sabbath or lose my job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tzephanyahu Posted January 6, 2020 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 69 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 1,625 Content Per Day: 0.79 Reputation: 2,033 Days Won: 1 Joined: 09/10/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted January 6, 2020 There are not 613 commandments. This is a fallacy. It seems that people that say this are just relaying second-hand information without investigating the matter personally. That's fine, as there is much to study in the Bible, but we need to be careful when we start throwing this figure around as fact. It implies the Torah is burdensome and heavy. Now, if some what to say that the Torah is died and buried and hung on the cross etc, that's their decision - their free to that theology. But is it ever a good thing to advise a brother or sister to NOT follow a part of Torah, if they are feeling led too? Is it really a wise thing to encourage them not to observe things like the Sabbath - if they feel compelled to? (As long as they understand that doing so will not add to salvation) We were all called in different ways and to different things. Some to Sabbath and some not to. But it's better to learn from our differences, assuming we haven't understood it all, rather than criticise, accuse or sow doubts. Things the Father hates. Again, the caveat for above is assuming that the person is mature enough to know that observance is obedience and not salvation, which is a gift. Love & Shalom 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Adams Posted January 6, 2020 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 25 Topic Count: 61 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 9,605 Content Per Day: 3.97 Reputation: 7,795 Days Won: 21 Joined: 09/11/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted January 6, 2020 Yes, so much disinformation out there by silly theological pundits. Yeshua said, "Is it not written in your law...?" He was talking about a particular psalm. To the Israelis of His time all the Tanakh was referred to as 'the law'. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustPassingThru Posted January 6, 2020 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 14 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,979 Content Per Day: 0.98 Reputation: 2,112 Days Won: 1 Joined: 10/23/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted January 6, 2020 On 12/23/2019 at 5:17 PM, Lee_ said: Are the 10 Commandments called "the moral law"? NO! Not in the sense "God" gave them! The 10 Commandments were given by God to "show" mankind what was necessary in their lives to "go" and "live" with Him in Heaven, ...and of course anyone and everyone, ...if they are honest, ...knows it's impossible for anyone to "live" their life in this manner, ...so they "separate" the ten into two and eight, ...then they pridefully say, ..."I" keep the eight, ignoring the other two and try to teach others to come and follow them, ...the "eight" are physical and "two" are spiritual! 1. You shall have no other gods before Me. Exo 20:3 And they forget, or don't know, in trying to keep the "eight" they have made "themselves" their god. 2. You shall not covet... Exo 20:17 And the fact that they "think" they are "keeping" the "eight" is coveting the work Jesus accomplished by keeping the LAW, ...testified by God the Father at His Transfiguration, of His "fulfilling" both the two and the eight, ...Jesus didn't have to stay here on earth, ...He could of gone back to Heaven, ...but we know the rest of the story, ...He "fulfilled" the LAW for us, who in faith believe, ...He did for us too. The Holy Spirit writing through Paul explains this to us: What then shall we say? That the law is sin? By no means! Yet if it had not been for the law, I would not have known sin. For I would not have known what it is to covet if the law had not said, “You shall not covet.” Rom 7:7 That is "exactly" what the "eight" keepers are doing, ...they are making the Law sin by saying I "don't" do this, ..or I don't do that, ...killing is a "sin," I don't do that, ..or, I don't commit adultery, ...making the Law "sinful" physical acts! What did the Holy Spirit say? "is the law sin? By no means!" The Law is NOT sin, ...the Law is the standard, the measure God uses to "judge" a person's life, ...we would not know we are sinners unless the Law told us, ...and any and every born again child of God, after the age of accountability, was "convicted" by the Holy Spirit of their sin and the consequences of their sin, ...Hell, ...He "illuminated" the sin in our lives and that's the "reason" we turned to Jesus for Salvation. They "eight" keepers skip over what Jesus taught, ...if you are mad at someone, you have committed murder, ...if you have lusted after a woman in your mind you have committed adultery, ...do you see that folks, ...Jesus is saying, even though you have never committed the physical "acts" you have NOT "kept" the Law, ...because the Law is spiritual and not physical, ...and again, the "eight" keepers have all sinned spiritually, ..in their minds, ...and the LAW also "required" sacrifices for the sin committed, ...but hey, ...we don't have to pay attention to "that" part of the LAW, ...look at what we "are" doing! So many skip over the "disclaimer" verse in the Gospel, just like the "eight" keepers skip over the other two. The Holy Spirit said it's a "reminder:" Now I would remind you, brothers, of the Gospel I preached to you, which you received, in which you stand, and by which you are being saved, if you hold fast to the word I preached to you—unless you believed in vain. For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received: that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures, that He was buried, that He was raised on the third day in accordance with the Scriptures, 1 Cor 15:1-4 Here's the Truth given to us by God the Holy Spirit: For by Grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. Eph 2:8-9 The Holy Spirit is "telling" us we are not saved by our "works, ...that is, "keeping" the Law, ...please, please, ...don't let anyone convince you otherwise, He, "THE" Holy Spirit said a "works" based salvation is, "believing" in vain! The True Gospel message is clear, ...Jesus "accomplished" it ALL for us, ...in Faith, ...the "Faith" given to us by God, ...we have to "receive" the Gospel and then "believe" it and allow the Holy Spirit to "appropriate" it into our lives, ...those who do are the True Blood Bought born again children of God and are assured they will NOT be one of those that will stand before Jesus and say, "But, but, ...we prophesied and cast out demons in your name, (and "kept" the Law)!" SELAH Lord bless 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resurrection Priest Posted January 6, 2020 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 467 Content Per Day: 0.29 Reputation: 153 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/20/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted January 6, 2020 The holy 7th Day was around long before Mount Sinai. It will still be holy, in the Kingdom (Isa 66:22-23). The 4th Commandment just said "Remember". Doesn't say you must DO anything - just "rest". The Creator "hallowed" the 7th day waaaay back at the end of the creation week. I don't know of any verse where He declared it no longer "holy", or declared a different day set apart for Himself. Anyone know of a verse like that? Genesis 2:3 "Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it" (NKJ) 06942 vd;q' qadash {kaw-dash'} Meaning: 1) to consecrate, sanctify, prepare, dedicate, be hallowed, be holy, Only God can declare something "sanctified" (hallowed or holy) - set apart to HIM. When Jesus declared Himself "Lord of the Sabbath", He was claiming to BE the Creator who set that day apart for Himself. There is a blessing especially for those who honor the Sabbath. Personally, I want that blessing. Isaiah 58:13 "If you turn away your foot from the Sabbath, From doing your pleasure on My holy day, And call the Sabbath a delight, The holy day of the LORD honorable, And shall honor Him, not doing your own ways, Nor finding your own pleasure, Nor speaking your own words, 14 Then you shall delight yourself in the LORD; And I will cause you to ride on the high hills of the earth, And feed you with the heritage of Jacob your father. The mouth of the LORD has spoken it." (NKJ) What? You think the LORD has changed His mind, and will no longer bless those who rest on His Day? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tzephanyahu Posted January 7, 2020 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 69 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 1,625 Content Per Day: 0.79 Reputation: 2,033 Days Won: 1 Joined: 09/10/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted January 7, 2020 6 minutes ago, Betha said: seems they are enjoying their spiritual Titanic I'm glad you also see the benefit of the Sabbath sister but this line above seems a little unfair. You can't expect people to listen and learn about the Sabbath if you say that they "enjoy their spiritual Titanic". That's not really fair and is surely going to only insult others or start an argument. Many of us, including me, were once ignorant to the Sabbath because of how we have been raised by the Church, not because we enjoyed it. But I mean you no ill-will sister! Just a polite reminder to that we need to move in peace Love & Shalom 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tzephanyahu Posted January 7, 2020 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 69 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 1,625 Content Per Day: 0.79 Reputation: 2,033 Days Won: 1 Joined: 09/10/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted January 7, 2020 (edited) 18 minutes ago, Betha said: so please forgive me if I follow Him and speak a little sharply....it is not meant to offend but wake them from slumber Shalom Betha, I understand your passion and zeal and appreciate your tireless efforts on this forum to stand for truth. We need more people to do the same. Indeed, when He comes back He will make all things clear and indeed it will be like a lion. And yes, we will rule with Him. But, at this time and in this age, I feel the Scriptures teaches us to be humble, patient and kind to those who are understanding a "step at a time". Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying you are not humble, patient and kind. But I know that, in this forum, many seek to accuse and criticise others at any chance they get. Therefore, I just wanted to remind you to not give such people an opportunity to discredit/derail your good message. Do you know what I mean? 18 minutes ago, Betha said: I'm sorry to have stepped over the mark....but when error has been going on for thousands of years it is hard to continue in sweet kindness Yes, it's frustrating isn't it! However, it was prophesied to be this way and prophesied to get even worse before He returns. So we have to partially accept that there will be a divide, and partially try to reach as many as we can. Now, if we do so with peace and patience (as tough as that is!) there is a better chance we will reach those He would have hear. But again, I love you sister. No ill-will at all! I'm looking forward to meeting with you one day in New Jerusalem, Yahweh willing. And I need to listen to my own advice as sometimes the zeal takes over me as well! May Yahweh bless you in the name of our Lord Yahushua. Love & Shalom Edited January 7, 2020 by Tzephanyahu 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billiards Ball Posted January 7, 2020 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,502 Content Per Day: 0.66 Reputation: 662 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/05/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted January 7, 2020 5 hours ago, Betha said: Perhaps not directly, but scripture tells us that GOD PERSONALLY gave the 10 Coms to the people and ADDED NO MORE Deut 5v22 which is very significant to me....making them spiritual and eternal as Paul mentions in Rom 7....and JESUS enhanced on in His sermon on the mount....they are the Commandments of LOVE to God and Neighbour and yourself....doing the Will of God ! GOD did not leave Himself without eternal AUTHORITY !!! Then Heb 9 tells us how the old carnal commandments contained in ordinances/works (given through Moses) could not obtain eternal redemption for us ...so there is certainly a separation and change of observance Heb 8v12 from physical to spiritual Col 2v14. Why don't you tell GOD that transgressing HIS LAW is NOT SIN ? 1 Joh 3v4. Jas 2v11. Hi Betha, I'm a born again Christian who loves the Lord. I evangelize often and have given many sermons and done public preaching. I work with several ministries. Why would you write something to me like "Why don't you tell GOD that transgressing HIS LAW is NOT SIN ?" OF COURSE anything unlawful is sin. I know that. The question is whether breaking Sabbath is lawful. It is lawful. Romans 6 says you can keep any day special if you are fully convinced in mind. I'm not convinced regarding the Sabbath. I would know, being a Jew, and I question whether you are in synagogue honoring the Sabbath each Saturday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tzephanyahu Posted January 7, 2020 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 69 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 1,625 Content Per Day: 0.79 Reputation: 2,033 Days Won: 1 Joined: 09/10/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted January 7, 2020 1 minute ago, Billiards Ball said: The question is whether breaking Sabbath is lawful. It is lawful. That's quite a bold statement. Can you provide any Scriptures to back up this claim? As Paul's letters are greatly contested (as the Apostle Peter says), please provide two or three witnesses from the remaining 52 books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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