Are the 10 Commandments called "the moral law"?

[Billiards Ball]

12 hours ago, Resurrection Priest said:

Does that mean I can knowingly steal, lie, and commit adultery too, without confessing my sin to Him and repentance - and stay saved?  How 'bout idols, or taking God's name in vain, or even worshiping other gods?  I don't think so.   So why the carve out - just for the 4th commandment?  Why call just THAT ONE "Jewish"? 

Real faith always results in good actions - actions that demonstrate love for others, and respect for God. 

I rest on the Sabbath BECAUSE the LORD has commanded that we do so.   It is a sign of respect for HIM, to rest on the day that HE has identified as the reminder that HE is our Creator. 

The Bible does not teach "...without confessing my sin to Him and repentance" I lose salvation. Jesus told me the truth in John 3 that I shall not perish.

Or please consider Romans 6, "Salvation is a gift" and Romans 8, "The gifts and calling of God are IRREVOCABLE".

[Resurrection Priest]

3 hours ago, Billiards Ball said:

The Bible does not teach "...without confessing my sin to Him and repentance" I lose salvation. Jesus told me the truth in John 3 that I shall not perish.

Or please consider Romans 6, "Salvation is a gift" and Romans 8, "The gifts and calling of God are IRREVOCABLE".

So - we ARE talking about the "Once Saved - Always Saved" doctrine. 

 

[Blood Bought 1953]

10 minutes ago, Resurrection Priest said:

So - we ARE talking about the "Once Saved - Always Saved" doctrine. 

 

Of course! I boldly predict that the “Buddy” the Mouse thread will morph into an OSAS debate before it is over with.....lol...Poor, sweet,  Lovable Buddy—- he really was a Saint......sniff....sniff....

Edited January 15, 2020 by Blood Bought 1953

[Billiards Ball]

27 minutes ago, Resurrection Priest said:

So - we ARE talking about the "Once Saved - Always Saved" doctrine. 

 

No, we are talking about the adoption. I'm adopted by God and Satan cannot resurrect the old man that died on the cross. I'm saved!

[Resurrection Priest]

3 hours ago, Billiards Ball said:

No, we are talking about the adoption. I'm adopted by God and Satan cannot resurrect the old man that died on the cross. I'm saved!

 

The "once saved - always saved" doctrine arose because of the doctrine of eternal conscious torment (Catholic doctrine used to generate money). 

It is unthinkable to the human mind, the idea that one could be tormented for eternity with no possibility of an end to that horrible suffering.  People have actually gone crazy - just thinking about it. 

And people have rejected any belief in a God who could do THAT.  I know more than one personally, who returned to the Lord when they realized our God will NOT do that. 

The whole "last rites" doctrine started because people wanted "fire insurance".   Also the teaching Purgatory (from one of the Apocryphal books), and the idea that one can pray a person out of Hell, or buy a person out of Hell with enough donations to the Church.

And the Catholic Church thought it less torment to torture people physically til they recanted heretical beliefs.  At least their "souls" were saved from eternal torment. 

I knew a woman once, whose gay son had committed suicide after a bad breakup from his lover.   That poor mom told me that finally understanding "the wages of sin is death" - DEATH - not eternal conscious torment, was the greatest relief she has ever known.  She does believe her son was lost - to God, but she does not have to think about him suffering torment in Hell forever.  This despite his "baptism" at age 8. 

I would rather folks continue to believe in "Once Saved - Always Saved",   than have them live in fear. 

If you would like to debate eternal conscious torment  vs  death - I'm happy to do so.  Maybe start another thread. 

 

Romans 1:32  “. . . knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death,” [not eternal conscious torment].

    Psalm 37:20  “But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the LORD shall be as the fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away.”

        NOTE: David lamented the apparent success of the wicked until he entered the Temple.  There he saw something which caused him to understand “what would be their end” (Psa. 73:3-17).  He saw the sacrifice, burning on the altar. Here David under inspiration, tells us that the wicked will be consumed in fire - “like the fat of lambs”. The wicked will consume away into smoke.  Most Christians today understand that the sacrifice symbolized Christ, but not many understand that it also symbolized the death of the wicked.  Those who embrace Christ as their Savior will not die this death.  

        NOTE:  Some translations say “like the glory of the pastures.”  To a Hebrew shepherd like David, that meant sheep and goats - not flowers or grass. 

    Isaiah 41:11-12  “Behold, all those who were incensed against you shall be ashamed and disgraced; They shall be as nothing, And those who strive with you shall perish. You shall seek them and not find them -- Those who contended with you. Those who war against you shall be as nothing, as a nonexistent thing.”

To "perish" means to "die". 

 

I spent two years looking at every word from the Hebrew, Greek, and Aramaic that was ever translated into English as "Hell".  

Anyone wanting a copy of that study can PM to me. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Billiards Ball]

12 hours ago, Resurrection Priest said:

 

The "once saved - always saved" doctrine arose because of the doctrine of eternal conscious torment (Catholic doctrine used to generate money). 

It is unthinkable to the human mind, the idea that one could be tormented for eternity with no possibility of an end to that horrible suffering.  People have actually gone crazy - just thinking about it. 

And people have rejected any belief in a God who could do THAT.  I know more than one personally, who returned to the Lord when they realized our God will NOT do that. 

The whole "last rites" doctrine started because people wanted "fire insurance".   Also the teaching Purgatory (from one of the Apocryphal books), and the idea that one can pray a person out of Hell, or buy a person out of Hell with enough donations to the Church.

And the Catholic Church thought it less torment to torture people physically til they recanted heretical beliefs.  At least their "souls" were saved from eternal torment. 

I knew a woman once, whose gay son had committed suicide after a bad breakup from his lover.   That poor mom told me that finally understanding "the wages of sin is death" - DEATH - not eternal conscious torment, was the greatest relief she has ever known.  She does believe her son was lost - to God, but she does not have to think about him suffering torment in Hell forever.  This despite his "baptism" at age 8. 

I would rather folks continue to believe in "Once Saved - Always Saved",   than have them live in fear. 

If you would like to debate eternal conscious torment  vs  death - I'm happy to do so.  Maybe start another thread. 

 

Romans 1:32  “. . . knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death,” [not eternal conscious torment].

    Psalm 37:20  “But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the LORD shall be as the fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away.”

        NOTE: David lamented the apparent success of the wicked until he entered the Temple.  There he saw something which caused him to understand “what would be their end” (Psa. 73:3-17).  He saw the sacrifice, burning on the altar. Here David under inspiration, tells us that the wicked will be consumed in fire - “like the fat of lambs”. The wicked will consume away into smoke.  Most Christians today understand that the sacrifice symbolized Christ, but not many understand that it also symbolized the death of the wicked.  Those who embrace Christ as their Savior will not die this death.  

        NOTE:  Some translations say “like the glory of the pastures.”  To a Hebrew shepherd like David, that meant sheep and goats - not flowers or grass. 

    Isaiah 41:11-12  “Behold, all those who were incensed against you shall be ashamed and disgraced; They shall be as nothing, And those who strive with you shall perish. You shall seek them and not find them -- Those who contended with you. Those who war against you shall be as nothing, as a nonexistent thing.”

To "perish" means to "die". 

 

I spent two years looking at every word from the Hebrew, Greek, and Aramaic that was ever translated into English as "Hell".  

Anyone wanting a copy of that study can PM to me. 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm familiar with the arguments for annihilationism.

My remarks about assurance, if annihilation is a true doctrine, are still valid:

*John 3 says born agains shall not perish (never be annihilated)

*Romans 6 says salvation (no annihilation) is a free gift of God, and Romans 8 says the gifts of God (includes no annihilation) are irrevocable (cannot be undone/taken back/returned)

Please note, the word "aion", for example, (age or eternity) is used, even in the same verses, for the righteous and wicked in the NT. Therefore, either Hell is eternal or, if annihilation is correct, the wicked live the same shorter-than-eternal time as the righteous (an aion), so the wicked must be suffering during that aion. Annihilation is okay to believe, therefore, if it doesn't slow the urgency and frequency of your gospel sharing.

However, I dislike the pop saying that "no church on Earth has 100% right doctrine" because in major/important doctrines, a Bible church CAN be 100% correct, and the implication is that the cults are correct about annihilationism (Watchtower Society et al) and that we should be paranoid about/distrusting of evangelical churches, which is wrong on its face.

[JoeMo]

On 1/12/2020 at 6:16 PM, JustPassingThru said:

Sorry friend, ...I don't know of any verse in the Word that you can use to substantiate what you say,

Can't find a verse that disputes this either.  Maybe it's a common sense/logical thing.  Although I never really studied in in scripture until recently, I have often wondered how God will deal with those who never heard of Jesus or those twisted by the erroneous and manipulative teaching of some cults and denominations; or those who die as babies (or fetuses). IMHO, to truly exercise my free will, I need to make fully informed decisions.  If I never heard of Jesus or was taught errors/lies about God, Should I go to hell because I never confessed my sins to Jesus or put faith in Him?  If that were the case, wouldn't satan have a legitimate charge against God that He wasn't "just"?  The only way I can get around this is that ignorant people get a chance to make an informed, free-will decision.

Of course, I'm not God; and He can do whatever He wants.  His thoughts are far above mine, as are His ways.  Like so many other things, I must keep an open mind.

[JoeMo]

On 1/13/2020 at 2:23 PM, Resurrection Priest said:

and really consider this, ...Nephilim, ...the offspring of demons, ...will all have a second chance, ...then logically, ...if what you say is true, ...since God "is" Just and gave them a second chance, ...then satan and the demons will also have "second" chance!!!

Actually, JustPassingThru said this.

The Nephillim - being the offspring of demons - are not human; they are a hybrid race which God never intended to exist.  They are not covered by grace - purebred humans are covered by grace.  Fallen angels and their offspring are to be eternally destroyed.  They shall die like men "I said, “You are gods,  sons of the Most High, all of you; nevertheless, like men you shall die,  and fall like any prince.”(Ps. 82:6-7)

On 1/13/2020 at 2:23 PM, Resurrection Priest said:

The debate about Nephilim being demon/human hybrids is a whole other thing.  I'm not convinced concerning the existence of such. 

I don't see how anyone reading Genesis 6:1-4 literally (after all, it Genesis is a "history" book) can interpret it any other way.  Fallen angels left their original habitation (Jude 6), took on flesh, and had children with human women.

Alternatively, these fallen angels could have messed with the human genome to create beings God never intended to exist. Sounds crazy? Humans are on the verge of being able to create "designer babies" now. The planet is also already inundated with genetically altered (aka GMO) foods. The angels were at least as smart as we "enlightened" humans are.

[JustPassingThru]

21 hours ago, JoeMo said:

Can't find a verse that disputes this either.  Maybe it's a common sense/logical thing.  Although I never really studied in in scripture until recently, I have often wondered how God will deal with those who never heard of Jesus or those twisted by the erroneous and manipulative teaching of some cults and denominations; or those who die as babies (or fetuses). IMHO, to truly exercise my free will, I need to make fully informed decisions.  If I never heard of Jesus or was taught errors/lies about God, Should I go to hell because I never confessed my sins to Jesus or put faith in Him?  If that were the case, wouldn't satan have a legitimate charge against God that He wasn't "just"?  The only way I can get around this is that ignorant people get a chance to make an informed, free-will decision.

Hi and welcome to Worthy...

Those that have never heard the opportunity to hear the Gospel, ...THE largest revival on the planet is currently taking place in Iran at this very moment, ...God is using His prophecy in Joel, ...as Peter announced on Pentecost Acts 2:17, at the beginning of the Church Age:

And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions: Joel 2:28

The Muslim men are seeing Jesus in their dreams and are turning away from Islam and to Jesus, born again children of God, ...there is a video on YouTube, HisChannel, that show a "believers" church service in Farsi with the camera at the back of the room so that those there can not be identified, ...many of those attending are new born "converts" from Iran who come to the States to be able to worship the Lord, be baptized and take Communion with the saints, ...before they go back to Iran.

We serve a "BIG" God, ...nothing is impossible for Him to accomplish!

Children who die before the age of accountability go directly to be with the Lord, ...I remember the exact moment, just like the exact moment when we are "born again," ...my conscience became "alive," I "knew" what I was doing was "wrong" for the first time in my life, ...but I did it anyway and I became "responsible" for my actions before God. 

There are many who dispute this, ...I ask them, "If you being evil, would you send a fetus, baby or young child to the Lake of Fire," of course they answer no, ...so then, since God is Good and Love, ...why would He?

I believe the Word gives us a hint into the heart of God about "children" in the Book of Jonah:

And should not I spare Nineveh, that great city, wherein are more than sixscore thousand persons that cannot discern between their right hand and their left hand; and also much cattle? Jonah 4:11

When discerning between their right and left hand is used in the Bible it is talking about little children and I also believe those that are handicapped in this way mentally.

Freewill, the only time an unregenerated human has "freewill" is at their "crisis" moment when, ...by the Holy Spirit, they have given the choice to "receive" Jesus John 1:12, ...before that "moment" we were all held in bondage to sin Rom 6:17, the only "choice" we had is what particular sin we chose to "delight" ourselves in, ...after we are born again is when we have a "free will", and the most intelligent "choice" we can make is choosing between being a "carnal" child of God or one who is "walking in/with the Holy Spirit,  by relinquishing ALL authority in and of our lives to Him and allow him to take His rightful place on the Throne of our hearts. 

Yes, every one is given a chance to make a choice, it's a "crisis" moment in our lives, ...that "moment" when every born again child of God remembers when the Father said, "Let there be Light, and there was Light!" ...and the Holy Spirit worked in our lives just like Jesus said:

And when He is come, He will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: John 16:8

and "illuminated" our sinful lifestyle, revealed to us the Righteousness of God and our unrighteousness and the Judgement already pronounced against us, ...we are "going" to Hell! At that "moment" we are given free will to chose our destiny.

However, yes, there are those "deceived" in the cults and other ocultic religions that have never heard the Gospel, ...after the world wide "catastrophe" of the Church at the Rapture, ...it's estimated today there are between 1 and 1 1/2 billion born again children of God presently living on the planet, ...add to that ALL of the children below the age of accountability on the planet, from jw, mormon, islam, buddist, and all of the other religion's families, that will disappear, ...they we come to the conclusion their "religion" was false, and God will provide 144,000 Jewish Evangelists Rev 7 preaching the Gospel and and Angel in the sky preaching the Everlasting Gospel Rev 14;6, ...these are the ones who:

These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. Rev 7:14

Please notice, "they" washed their robes, ...the difference is "we" the Church, the Bride of Christ, "Jesus" washed us in His Blood and then "gave" us white robes to wear, ...those that are "saved" during the Tribulation, those that had "never" heard the Gospel preached in the power of the Holy Spirit Rom 1:16, ...who believed in some kind of a "works" based Salvation, ...they will have their "chance" to work for their Salvation, they will have to stand up for Jesus against the anti-christ and not deny Him, ...at the cost of their heads, ...they will be decapitated for their faith.

Those that are living at the time of the Rapture, ..that "have" heard the Gospel preached in the power of the Holy Spirit and rejected it, they will be damned, ...no second chance:

Even him (anti-christ), whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:  That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.  2 thess 2:9-12

I hope this points you in the right direction to study on your own and remember, ...don't believe anyone Acts 17:11, "only" the Holy Spirit as He teaches you from His Word 1 John 2:27

Lord bless

[JustPassingThru]

22 hours ago, JoeMo said:

I don't see how anyone reading Genesis 6:1-4 literally (after all, it Genesis is a "history" book) can interpret it any other way.  Fallen angels left their original habitation (Jude 6), took on flesh, and had children with human women.

And add to that there are many books recounting the "archaeological" finds of "giants," and their 'cities," ...it's really easy to prove, just Google "giants" and then images, ...that will erase any doubt any might have that are not following some agenda.

Lord bless