Two Groups of People

[Heleadethme]

3 hours ago, Behold said:

Yesterday on another "christian" forum, i was doing there, what i do here.

I was pointing out to spitting Legalists who are trying to keep themselves saved, who have dead faith, because they are no longer trusting in Christ to keep them saved.....  I was responding to..... about, i dont know, 5 or 10 of them, and one of them was ranting about "not falling away", or becoming "faith shipwrecked"...etc..... as this is your eternal doom if you do it, they explained with devout passion.

What i find remarkable about these people is that they are always so hot try to kick a Christian into Hell....... so excited to be trying to  do this on forums......Yet, if you ask them anything about Grace, or "justification by faith", or "the gift of Righteousness"..........if you ask them to EXPLAIN IT....they will stare at their laptop or phone, and become amazingly SILENT.   And that is because....>How can you explain, what you don't have, or don't understand?

I finally got tired of responding to them so i wrote them a question.  

"Explain how the Blood Atonement that saved you, keeps you saved".

And just like magic.....Im by myself there..............same as always.    They dont like that question.  They can't answer that question, yet they all know that they should be able to.......but they CAN'T.

See, RELIGIOUS People talk about obedience and law and commandments and the rest of their List that excludes CHRIST's BLOOD and God's GRACE, because they don't have any of THAT to talk about.

Listen, when you have been redeemed by the BLOOD and the CROSS, you talk about it.  YOU REMEMBER THAT DAY.....  You and ME, WE talk about our Savior, and THEY< talk about theirs.  (The List).

See how that Math works?    Its perfect math.   Its a final answer regarding them, every time.

So, i pointed out to this error-head that ............you have the "Gospel of Mark".

They are familiar with the title, and thats about it.    Because like most Heretics.   They only read Matthew, James, and Hebrews..  So, i explained to them that Mark was a believer who backslid for many many years.  And Before he did this, he was a part of Paul's program, and he ended up betraying both Paul as well as Christ.

Backsliding is betrayal of your faith., but it does not separate you from God's Grace.

SO< WE have the Gospel of Mark.   Its in the BIBLE.

He wrote it  AFTER HE CAME BACK, YEARS LATER..... = God still used Him to write it.

Thats how Salvation works.  Its not temporary.  It does not become obsolete and deleted if you mess up your discipleship.   

Perfection is not required for God to take you or keep you..  

What He requires is for  you to  "BELIEVE ON JESUS AND YOU SHALL BE SAVED" = AS SOON AS YOU DO......AND THAT MEANS FOREVER.

As they say in the south......"when yur took yur took"..    When God pays for you with the Blood of Jesus, you are BOUGHT......You're HIS......there is no getting away from being Born again.

YOUR SALVATION,    Will last for as long as God lives.  This is because its HIS.    Its a GIFT.  And its a Gift that has purchased for you with the Blood of Jesus.

No-one is saying that all believers who fall into sin and backslide can never be restored again.  No-one here is saying there is no hope for such.   I believe the scripture on Hebrews 6 is addressing in particular those who are spiritually mature and it is talking about WILLFUL sin.  Immature believers (and I don't mean that in a derogatory way) can sometimes be unstable in their walk until they learn to overcome and begin walking in the Spirit.  God has grace for those who are young in the faith, or haven't yet learned,  just as parents have grace for their young children who don't yet know right from wrong,  or haven't yet learned to control their impulses, etc.  But if those who really and truly know better and still willfully choose to walk contrary to the will of God and adopt a sinful lifestyle, they are in much greater danger of not being able to be restored.  I believe this has to do with why fallen angels can't be restored as well...their rebellion was willful and knowing, and my goodness they had been in heaven with God!  It wasn't just the result of being tempted in a weak moment or struggling with a bondage or out of ignorance of God's will.

Edited December 27, 2019 by Heleadethme

[Heleadethme]

3 hours ago, Alive said:

I know exactly what people are trying to say. I have heard it all for a long time. There is nothing new--only more twisted ways of saying it.

Grace never runs out, but even that statement is erroneous. It is you who misunderstand, my friend. Folks have been indoctrinated with the lie that Jesus will lose one that the Father gives and makes eternal. People wrest from scripture what they don't mean in order to fit the lie.

Please consider what it means to be 'born from above'. Just, for the Lord's sake and yours---meditate on what I have written on the subject.

We who are born again have been relocated. Do you know from where to where? Do you grasp this?

He will not lose one who He has foreknown will not fall away.  Don't forget He knows the end from the beginning and the scriptures are speaking in spiritual language of spiritual things.

[Coliseum]

2 minutes ago, Heleadethme said:

No-one is saying that all believers who fall into sin and backslide can never be restored again.  No-one here is saying there is no hope for such.   I believe the scripture on Hebrews 6 is addressing in particular those who are spiritually mature and it is talking about WILLFUL sin.  Immature believers (and I don't mean that in a derogatory way) can sometimes be unstable in their walk until they learn to overcome and begin walking in the Spirit.  God has grace for those who are young in the faith, or haven't yet learned,  just as parents have grace for their young children who don't yet know right from wrong,  or haven't yet learned to control their impulses, etc.  But if those who really and truly know better and still willfully choose to walk contrary to the will of God and adopt a sinful lifestyle, they are in much greater danger of not being able to be restored.  I believe this has to do with why fallen angels can't be restored as well...their rebellion was willful and knowing, and my goodness they had been in heaven with God!  It wasn't just the result of being tempted in a weak moment or being in a bondage or out of ignorance of God's will.

While it is true that the more knowledge we have been given of God, the more responsibility we must assume. But the angels never had the Gospel of Grace. They had no options, nor were any given. When they were cast out of Heaven with Satan, Hell was a place Jesus said was reserved for them. So I think men and angels are quite different in that respect. The Proverb, "A live dog is better than a dead lion," is applicable to men, but not to angels. 

[Michael37]

18 minutes ago, Heleadethme said:

No-one is saying that all believers who fall into sin and backslide can never be restored again.  No-one here is saying there is no hope for such.   I believe the scripture on Hebrews 6 is addressing in particular those who are spiritually mature and it is talking about WILLFUL sin.  Immature believers (and I don't mean that in a derogatory way) can sometimes be unstable in their walk until they learn to overcome and begin walking in the Spirit.  God has grace for those who are young in the faith, or haven't yet learned,  just as parents have grace for their young children who don't yet know right from wrong,  or haven't yet learned to control their impulses, etc.  But if those who really and truly know better and still willfully choose to walk contrary to the will of God and adopt a sinful lifestyle, they are in much greater danger of not being able to be restored.  I believe this has to do with why fallen angels can't be restored as well...their rebellion was willful and knowing, and my goodness they had been in heaven with God!  It wasn't just the result of being tempted in a weak moment or struggling with a bondage or out of ignorance of God's will.

Thanks for taking the time to edify here, Heleadethme. The Hebrews 6 passage is often wrested or twisted to mean something it doesn't with regard to those who start following Christ in the same way the true believer does but then fall away. It's not that they have been so bad that God won't LET THEM BACK, won't RESTORE THEM, but rather it is because they have no desire to come back, have no intention of being restored, that they cannot be restored. Their own hardened heart prevents it happening. Instead they align with the very people that worked so hard to have Christ crucified, both determined to continue their unrighteous ways without His interference, as they see it. 

[Behold]

14 hours ago, johnthebaptist said:

I would argue with your premise - I think repenting is what keeps us out of hell.

You didn't answer my question, so, i'll assume you can't.

So try this...

If repenting keeps you out of hell, then Jesus didn't need to die.

If repenting keeps you out of hell, then, the blood atonement, is not necessary.

If repenting keeps you out of Hell, then being born again, isn't necessary.

Get this in your head.... The reason that people go to hell, is not because they don't repent enough... the reason is because their SIN has not been resolved and forgiven by the Blood of Christ.

So, every person that is sitting in hell right now waiting for Revelation 20:11, is ;  1.) Not Born again.   and 2.) Not Born Again.

You can repent until your flesh falls off but if you have not been "born again", according to what Jesus said in John 3.....then "You will die in your sin" John 8:24....and that is why Hell will find you in it.   

Repenting, this obsession you have with it,  is just one more idea that Legalists try to use to replace the Cross.  This is why you dont talk about the Cross.   And you should repent of this self righteousness, fella.

Edited December 28, 2019 by Behold

[johnthebaptist]

4 minutes ago, Behold said:

You didn't answer my question, so, i'll assume you can't.

So try this...

If repenting keeps you out of hell, then Jesus didn't need to die.

If repenting keeps you out of hell, then, the blood atonement, is not necessary.

If repenting keeps you out of Hell, then being born again, isn't necessary.

Get this in your head.... The reason that people go to hell, is not because they don't repent enough... the reason is because their SIN has not been resolved and forgiven by the Blood of Christ.

So, every person that is sitting in hell right now waiting for Revelation 20:11, is ;  1.) Not Born again.   and 2.) Not Born Again.

You can repent until your flesh falls off but if you have not been "born again", according to what Jesus said in John 3.....then "You will die in your sin" John 8:24....and that is why Hell will find you in it.   

Repenting, this obsession you have with it,  is just one more idea that Legalist try to use to replace the Cross.  This is why you dont talk about the Cross.   And you should repent of this self righteousness, fella.

The premise of your question is faulty. It's like me asking my dad why he is a terrible person. He can't answer the question because the premise is faulty - he is not a terrible person.

[johnthebaptist]

7 minutes ago, Behold said:

You didn't answer my question, so, i'll assume you can't.

So try this...

If repenting keeps you out of hell, then Jesus didn't need to die.

If repenting keeps you out of hell, then, the blood atonement, is not necessary.

If repenting keeps you out of Hell, then being born again, isn't necessary.

Get this in your head.... The reason that people go to hell, is not because they don't repent enough... the reason is because their SIN has not been resolved and forgiven by the Blood of Christ.

So, every person that is sitting in hell right now waiting for Revelation 20:11, is ;  1.) Not Born again.   and 2.) Not Born Again.

You can repent until your flesh falls off but if you have not been "born again", according to what Jesus said in John 3.....then "You will die in your sin" John 8:24....and that is why Hell will find you in it.   

Repenting, this obsession you have with it,  is just one more idea that Legalist try to use to replace the Cross.  This is why you dont talk about the Cross.   And you should repent of this self righteousness, fella.

If you sin, trouble comes into your life. I assume that is why Jesus told us to repent. 

[johnthebaptist]

18 minutes ago, Behold said:

You didn't answer my question, so, i'll assume you can't.

So try this...

If repenting keeps you out of hell, then Jesus didn't need to die.

If repenting keeps you out of hell, then, the blood atonement, is not necessary.

If repenting keeps you out of Hell, then being born again, isn't necessary.

Get this in your head.... The reason that people go to hell, is not because they don't repent enough... the reason is because their SIN has not been resolved and forgiven by the Blood of Christ.

So, every person that is sitting in hell right now waiting for Revelation 20:11, is ;  1.) Not Born again.   and 2.) Not Born Again.

You can repent until your flesh falls off but if you have not been "born again", according to what Jesus said in John 3.....then "You will die in your sin" John 8:24....and that is why Hell will find you in it.   

Repenting, this obsession you have with it,  is just one more idea that Legalist try to use to replace the Cross.  This is why you dont talk about the Cross.   And you should repent of this self righteousness, fella.

If I asked you why you are a terrible person, you wouldn't be able to answer the question, because the premise is wrong: You aren't a terrible person. You aren't are you?

[Behold]

3 hours ago, DustyRoad said:

Another wonderful example of why sticking around on these forums is worth it, especially for newbies like yours truly. Yes, brother, you describe how things unfold so well! The difference is literally the division between light and darkness, filthy rags or the righteousness of the Lamb of God. The legalists preach their flesh-bound agenda of obedience to laws which can't save or justify which is easily drawn out into the light of day whenever they overhear a young Christian overflowing with joy at the inexpressible goodness and mercy of our Father and his Son Jesus Christ. God's grace toward us leaves me speechless with wonder... and this drives the preachers of the flesh nuts!

The Lord bless you in your endeavors, you're a good teacher because you expound upon Christ, not this flesh.  

Kind words, always appreciated.

Listen, maybe God will call you into His work.  You are learning a lot because your ears have been opened.     There are a few of you here, who are WIDE AWAKE.... who are tracking correctly and playing the right Gospel tune.

God saved us because He loves us, and wants us to be a part of HIMSELF, in His "Body".  As "ONE"...  And serving Him perfectly, is simply loving Him back with our lives.  And if you didnt do that very well today, then do it better tomorrow.   Day by day, on the upward way.

Christianity is not advanced math that only a few can grasp.  Its really a very simple situation... God is Love, He loves Us, He called us home thru the blood of Christ, and We love Him back by adoring His Son and His word, and allowing this Great Love that He puts in us to be an arrow that points to Truth, who is Jesus, so that anyone and everyone we know and meet can become a part of this Truth.

When your ears are opened inside your spiritual man,  something happens when you hear Grace being preached and Jesus on The Cross being adored,..... you will GLOW.......know what i mean?

As far as me, im a lowly foot soldier.  Im a nothing.  a nobody.  But I KNOW WHO IS SOMEBODY, and I lift them up and hold them high..

You do the same, and God will expand you.

This Thread's topic is devoted to the idea of "2 different people".  and i'll tell you who they really are.... They are those who lift up the Cross and there are those who try to tear it down.

Its the born again, and its everybody else.   Its the children of God and the children of the Devil.     The born again, give Jesus all the Credit for saving them and keeping them saved.  The RELIGIOUS rest, give credit to repenting, and commandments, the Torah, the Law, ...and everything else they can DO on their self righteous  LIST.

But you see, Salvation is not something to do, its instead something that Jesus has already DONE....that is offered and received as a GIFT.

Those who work to keep it, have an issue with understanding it, or its not been applied to them at all.

Those who are working because it has been done for them.... and want to give back to the Giver of this Gift, are in the right Place.....always.

[Michael37]

8 minutes ago, johnthebaptist said:

If you sin, trouble comes into your life. I assume that is why Jesus told us to repent. 

Not only that, there is the serious matter of sanctification and God's holiness which prevents anyone spiritually unclean from approaching Him. But with the kingdom of heaven at hand manifest in the Person of Jesus Christ we have the means of becoming sanctified, through Him we are made holy. 

Mat 3:1-12
(1)  In those days came John the Baptist, preaching in the wilderness of Judaea,
(2)  And saying, Repent you: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.
(3)  For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Esaias, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare you the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.
(4)  And the same John had his raiment of camel's hair, and a leathern girdle about his loins; and his meat was locusts and wild honey.
(5)  Then went out to him Jerusalem, and all Judaea, and all the region round about Jordan,
(6)  And were baptized of him in Jordan, confessing their sins.
(7)  But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who has warned you to flee from the wrath to come?
(8)  Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance:
(9)  And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.
(10)  And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which brings not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
(11)  I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that comes after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
(12)  Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.