President Defends Actions

[Jostler]

48 minutes ago, other one said:

Iran has been at war with the USA for 40+ years ever since they overthrew the Shaw.....  I have Iranian friends who fled Iran during that time to escape Sharia type law there and I can assure you that they are not unhappy with our president and I saw a good sized group of Iraqis that were doing a little jig of happiness in Bagdad also.

 

Are you familiar with the  story  of the overthrow of Mohammed Mossadegh in 1953 and does the word "Savak" mean anything to  you?  1979 was not the beginning of the conflict between Iran and the  US.

If you go find some interviews of people who are actually dancing that  little jig you'll discover that jig was no  evidence of US support at all.  That's a group  of Sunni  reformers who have been protesting both  Iranian AND US presence/influence in Iraq and for  three months rather violently.   They are glad Soleimani  is  gone because he was influential in inspiring the deadly crackdown on their protests for  Iraqi independence from foreign influence, but the  same group sees Trumps gambit  as a violation of Iraqi sovereignty  as well.  They want us out.  Also a predictable result of  the decision.  

Why are we there again?   How does our presence in Iraq contribute to our own security? 

[other one]

1 hour ago, Jostler said:

Are you familiar with the  story  of the overthrow of Mohammed Mossadegh in 1953 and does the word "Savak" mean anything to  you?  1979 was not the beginning of the conflict between Iran and the  US.

If you go find some interviews of people who are actually dancing that  little jig you'll discover that jig was no  evidence of US support at all.  That's a group  of Sunni  reformers who have been protesting both  Iranian AND US presence/influence in Iraq and for  three months rather violently.   They are glad Soleimani  is  gone because he was influential in inspiring the deadly crackdown on their protests for  Iraqi independence from foreign influence, but the  same group sees Trumps gambit  as a violation of Iraqi sovereignty  as well.  They want us out.  Also a predictable result of  the decision.  

Why are we there again?   How does our presence in Iraq contribute to our own security? 

Mohammed Mossadegh...……….Yes, the CIA and MI6 overthrew his government after he nationalized their entire oil industry after Briton had spent billions of dollars building it up and with no compensation whatsoever....    Kind of a foolish thing to attempt to do considering the power in the area that the British and US had.  Had they not done that we probably would not have involved ourselves in their local governments.  But when you spend a huge amount of money and building up an industry and someone just steals it....    it kind of creates a problem.

but history is history and we've been at odds with them ever since.....   

 

Iraq has been a mess since before 1920 when the Kurds were killing off Christians, Shia's and everyone else that got in their way.      There has never been peace there without severe tyrannical governments....    and I personally don't think we can do much for them....    Arm the Kurds to the teeth and quietly leave and let them have a go at each other and then deal with the winners.....  

If the world didn't need their stupid oil we could just let them kill each other and deal with the winners....    but the winners are driven by the Sharia demand of a global caliphate so sooner or later we are going to have to submit to sharia law or fight them to the death....    and I personally would rather do that when our side is the only one with Nuclear weapons....  and I'm sure Israel would agree.

 

[BeauJangles]

1 hour ago, Jostler said:

Are you familiar with the  story  of the overthrow of Mohammed Mossadegh in 1953 and does the word "Savak" mean anything to  you?

That year was just previous to my birth. Unfortunately, we didn't cover this incident in our Civics class during high school. 

[Jostler]

49 minutes ago, other one said:

Mohammed Mossadegh...……….Yes, the CIA and MI6 overthrew his government after he nationalized their entire oil industry after Briton had spent billions of dollars building it up and with no compensation whatsoever....   

 

That's the lie they want you to believe.  Digging just below the surface tells a very different story.  Between 1908 when the oil field began pumping in volume and 1951 when Mossadegh nationalized it...Iran received a mere 16% of the revenues when 50% was more reasonable.  No compensation whatsoever?  Hardly.   The British  government  was pulling far more out of the Anglo-Persian Oil Company in income taxes than the Iranian government or people were getting out  of their own resources.  The story of APOC (now BP) is one of international theft....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-Persian_Oil_Company

And the overthrow of a democratically elected  government  to be replaced by a puppet monarch who murdered as many of his  own people as the Mullah's have (percentage wise) shows just how long we have preferred compliant dictators over spreading  "democracy" .....and gotta wonder....why was our  CIA involved in planning and executing the  coup, as well as financing it with US taxpayer  money when BP was the  beneficiary? 

Iran is a muslim theocracy today  BECAUSE of our choices.....if  not for the western support of Shah Rheza Pahlavi's brutal reign, the Mullahs would never have gained the power and support of the  Iranian people.  They came to power playing on the misery of average Iranians and the Shah's brutality convinced them anything was better than him.

History is not what you've been taught.  Just a light scratch to  uncover the veneer of propaganda reveals unimpeachable sources that tell the real story.

Edited January 7, 2020 by Jostler

[Jostler]

10 hours ago, BeauJangles said:

That year was just previous to my birth. Unfortunately, we didn't cover this incident in our Civics class during high school. 

The Savak were Shah  Rheza Pahlavi's secret police.....their brutality was legendary.  Many thousands of Iranians disappeared in the night, never to be seen again..and many were brutally tortured before they  died.   Once you  know the name, the stories are not difficult to find.

I covered a bit of the coup in the post above.... a quick read of Wikipedia gives a much fuller though  still incomplete view  of the story.

Edited January 7, 2020 by Jostler

[Jostler]

1 hour ago, other one said:

Iraq has been a mess since before 1920 when the Kurds were killing off Christians, Shia's and everyone else that got in their way.      There has never been peace there without severe tyrannical governments....    and I personally don't think we can do much for them....    Arm the Kurds to the teeth and quietly leave and let them have a go at each other and then deal with the winners.....  

If the world didn't need their stupid oil we could just let them kill each other and deal with the winners....    but the winners are driven by the Sharia demand of a global caliphate so sooner or later we are going to have to submit to sharia law or fight them to the death....    and I personally would rather do that when our side is the only one with Nuclear weapons....  and I'm sure Israel would agree.

I'll leave it to you to  dig into a more accurate history  of  the Kurds.  Lots of today's problems are the result of colonial powers redefining borders all over the middle east, carving  up and distributing the carcass of the Ottoman Empire with no  consideration of  historical boundaries, ethnic concentrations or any  other locally important references.   You bet  it's been a volatile region for a long time...but the reasons are just a bit more complex and a lot different than your portrayal.

And I  wholly reject the  idea that  any need, global or otherwise justifies theft.  Especially when it would cost so much less to just PAY for the oil in honest trade than pay  the cost of stealing it.

[ReneeIW]

5 hours ago, Jostler said:

But, there's a bigger game than even all that afoot too.  Most of what passes for politics in Washington the past three years is Kabuki theater designed to deepen the cultural divisions and keep the  masses fighting each other instead of the real enemy.   Trump has played the role he was appointed to play and played it well.

What’s the bigger problem and who’s the real enemy?

I can’t keep up with all this oil stuff. Somebody told me we were in Afghanistan because of a pipeline.

[ReneeIW]

5 hours ago, other one said:

I don't think the president is concerned about the impeachment in the least...

I agree he probably isn’t   concerned about whether he will be kicked out of office. But, I don’t think any president wants talks of impeachment dominating the news.And I don’t think any person wants to go on trial. And I don’t think it’s realistic to say that politics don’t play a role in every single decision a president makes.

 I’m interested in hearing why he felt the need to kill the general when Bush and Obama did not, and why it happened at the same time the speaker of the house and the press were talking about  impeachment. I guess we are going to hear more tomorrow. 

Edited January 7, 2020 by ReneeIW

[BeauJangles]

1 hour ago, ReneeIW said:

I can’t keep up with all this oil stuff. Somebody told me we were in Afghanistan because of a pipeline.

The issue with Kuwait was certainly a major issue in the 1990's. The oil there burned senselessly for a very long time.  

[Justin Adams]

11 hours ago, other one said:

We'll see how it goes, but I can tell you that either us, the Israelis or God himself is going to have to deal with Iran before too much time goes by.

I drove thru there about six months before the Shah went down. Quite scary looking back. I did not know why at the time, but those that tried to run me off the road surely did. Young and dumb I was, nearly bought it near Kandahar. Older now and wondering at all the things that missed me I did not know about...

Iran is an interesting mix of historical and tribal origins...