Catalyst to the Russian War.

[JoeCanada]

18 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi Diaste,

Thank you for asking. I`ll just do a short summary, but please ask if you want more detail.

Ex. 38 & 39. The Russian Federation, (far north) plus the other nations from the Soviet era, and the outside nations, Iran, (Persia) Libya & Ethiopia. God brings them down to the mountains of Israel and deals with them there. Many nations will see that it is the Lord who has done this. (Ez. 38: 23) This is the start of the 7 years, (trib).

Rev. 16: 16. Armageddon. The world`s armies gather to the north of Israel and then come down throughout the land killing 2/3rds of Israelis as they go. (Zech. 13: 8). Then the world`s armies will gather around Jerusalem after they have looted it. (Zech. 14: 2) It is here that the Lord will come with his angelic army and destroy those armies. (Zech. 14: 12 - 15) This is at the end of the 7 years.

There are some similarities, as in all wars, but the place, the armies and how God deals with them, are different.

Hope that is helpful, Marilyn.   

Hi Marilyn,

So, I have some questions.

How far BEFORE the start of the 7 years is this war?............. If Israel has to burn weapons for 7 years, then the war will have needed to end at the start of the 7 years.

If Israel is going to burn weapons for 7 years, along with burying the slain for 7 months, then how will they be doing this if the antichrist forces enter Jerusalem at the 3 1/2 year mark, and the Jews flee to the wilderness.? I don't see anywhere in scripture that says they only burn weapons for 3 1/2 years. 

2. Dan.  9: 27. `Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week,` (7 years).

After a war there is always a Peace treaty, covenant etc. Thus after the Russian war there will be a Peace Treaty for 7 years.

Dan 9:27 clearly states that "he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week"

How is making a "NEW PEACE TREATY" .....the same as "confirming a covenant"???

If God is judging these nations, basically slaying them on the mountains of Israel, how is it that these nations appear at the Battle of Armageddon at the end of the 70th week?  

 

[Marilyn C]

5 hours ago, JoeCanada said:

Hi Marilyn,

So, I have some questions.

How far BEFORE the start of the 7 years is this war?............. If Israel has to burn weapons for 7 years, then the war will have needed to end at the start of the 7 years.

If Israel is going to burn weapons for 7 years, along with burying the slain for 7 months, then how will they be doing this if the antichrist forces enter Jerusalem at the 3 1/2 year mark, and the Jews flee to the wilderness.? I don't see anywhere in scripture that says they only burn weapons for 3 1/2 years. 

2. Dan.  9: 27. `Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week,` (7 years).

After a war there is always a Peace treaty, covenant etc. Thus after the Russian war there will be a Peace Treaty for 7 years.

Dan 9:27 clearly states that "he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week"

How is making a "NEW PEACE TREATY" .....the same as "confirming a covenant"???

If God is judging these nations, basically slaying them on the mountains of Israel, how is it that these nations appear at the Battle of Armageddon at the end of the 70th week?  

 

Hi Joe,

Interesting thoughts. Now I believe the Russian war is just before the tribulation, (a week?) for the Peace Treaty  will be signed straight after it.

Covenant - Hebrew word, `briyth, ` meaning a compact, an agreement, a treaty.

Israel formulates a Peace Treaty, and the Peace negotiator (later A/C) confirms it. He gives the authority for his side, - Iraq, Syria and Jordan, the 3 nations that come under his control. 

The Russian Federation and some others are just their armies. Back in their own countries many others will rise up and form a small army of their nation. Actually it is 5/6th of those armies that get annihilated, so a remnant left. (Ez. 39: 2 KJ)

Marilyn.

[OldCoot]

I am not convinced it is Russian military forces as such as it is Russia as the main supplier to the Turkish, Persian, and N.E. African forces that come against Israel.  Ezekiel 38:7 seems to imply that Gog is more about being the supplier and facilitator, or "guard" (mismar - samar), of the coalition that comes against Israel.

One thing is for certain, 1/3rd of the Russian economy is based on natural gas and petroleum export sales to western Europe.  Israel has the newly discovered Leviathan gas and oil field in the Mediterranean.  Supposedly, enough NG to last for 1500 years.  One of the biggest finds in modern history.   Israel has just completed the agreement that would supply Greece and Cyprus with NG.  The agreement with the Italians is due in May.  And once the NG starts flowing that way, it will also get into Western Europe.  Just the initial deal is projected to eat into Russia's exports of NG to Europe by about 10%, and as it spreads out, will eat more into the Russian economic base.  And Israel plans to sell at a lower cost than Russia has been bleeding Europe for.  It also means that Russia/Putin will lose quite a bit of leverage in making Europe play their game.  I have seen wars start for less reason than all this.

I highly doubt Putin and Russia are going to just sit idly by and let this all transpire without throwing a fit.  And since the coalition nations that come against Israel are already in place and being armed by Russia, it is just a matter of time before the fuse is lit.  

Edited January 7, 2020 by OldCoot

[JoeCanada]

6 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi Joe,

Interesting thoughts. Now I believe the Russian war is just before the tribulation, (a week?) for the Peace Treaty  will be signed straight after it.

Covenant - Hebrew word, `briyth, ` meaning a compact, an agreement, a treaty.

Israel formulates a Peace Treaty, and the Peace negotiator (later A/C) confirms it. He gives the authority for his side, - Iraq, Syria and Jordan, the 3 nations that come under his control. 

The Russian Federation and some others are just their armies. Back in their own countries many others will rise up and form a small army of their nation. Actually it is 5/6th of those armies that get annihilated, so a remnant left. (Ez. 39: 2 KJ)

Marilyn.

Hi Marilyn,

I appreciate your answers, though I don't agree with them.

I have a few more concerns:

--If Israel is going to burn weapons for 7 years, along with burying the slain for 7 months, then how will they be doing this if the antichrist forces enter Jerusalem at the 3 1/2 year mark, and the Jews flee to the wilderness.? I don't see anywhere in scripture that says they only burn weapons for 3 1/2 years. 

--"My Holy Name I will make known in the midst of My people Israel; and I will not let My Holy Name be profaned anymore. And the nations will know that I am the Lord, the Holy One IN Israel. Behold, it is coming and it shall be done, declares the Lord God. That is the day of which I have spoken".....Ezek 39:7-8

So in this passage, Jesus tells us that after the war, He will not let His Holy Name be profaned anymore. How can this be before the 70th week of Daniel?

He also tells us that He is the Lord, the Holy One IN Israel.  This is the only time in scripture where "the Holy One IN Israel" is used. All the other times it is "the Holy One OF Israel"............... So, how can Jesus be IN Israel before the 70th week?

--In Ezek 39:22...."And the house of Israel will know that I am the Lord their God from that day forward. ....vs 23...."The nations will know that the house of Israel went into exile for their inequity"........How does this work before the 70th week? 

--In Ezek 39:17-20.....It talks about how the birds of the air and beasts of the field will gorge themselves on all the dead. Does this happen twice, at the beginning of the 70th week and again at the battle of Armageddon at the end of the 70th week?....(Rev 19:17-18)

--In Ezek 38:18-20, There is a great earthquake so that "all the men who are on the face of the earth will shake at MY PRESENCE"....the mountains will be thrown down, and every wall will fall to the ground.

But when we look at Matthew 24:15, Jesus says "When you see the AofD, then those in Judea must flee to the mountains"...... Well, here we have a huge problem. If all the mountains were thrown down at the beginning of the 70th week, then how can those in Judea flee to the mountains? 

That will do for now. I have more concerns

 

[Marilyn C]

1 hour ago, JoeCanada said:

Hi Marilyn,

I appreciate your answers, though I don't agree with them.

I have a few more concerns:

--If Israel is going to burn weapons for 7 years, along with burying the slain for 7 months, then how will they be doing this if the antichrist forces enter Jerusalem at the 3 1/2 year mark, and the Jews flee to the wilderness.? I don't see anywhere in scripture that says they only burn weapons for 3 1/2 years. 

--"My Holy Name I will make known in the midst of My people Israel; and I will not let My Holy Name be profaned anymore. And the nations will know that I am the Lord, the Holy One IN Israel. Behold, it is coming and it shall be done, declares the Lord God. That is the day of which I have spoken".....Ezek 39:7-8

So in this passage, Jesus tells us that after the war, He will not let His Holy Name be profaned anymore. How can this be before the 70th week of Daniel?

He also tells us that He is the Lord, the Holy One IN Israel.  This is the only time in scripture where "the Holy One IN Israel" is used. All the other times it is "the Holy One OF Israel"............... So, how can Jesus be IN Israel before the 70th week?

--In Ezek 39:22...."And the house of Israel will know that I am the Lord their God from that day forward. ....vs 23...."The nations will know that the house of Israel went into exile for their inequity"........How does this work before the 70th week? 

--In Ezek 39:17-20.....It talks about how the birds of the air and beasts of the field will gorge themselves on all the dead. Does this happen twice, at the beginning of the 70th week and again at the battle of Armageddon at the end of the 70th week?....(Rev 19:17-18)

--In Ezek 38:18-20, There is a great earthquake so that "all the men who are on the face of the earth will shake at MY PRESENCE"....the mountains will be thrown down, and every wall will fall to the ground.

But when we look at Matthew 24:15, Jesus says "When you see the AofD, then those in Judea must flee to the mountains"...... Well, here we have a huge problem. If all the mountains were thrown down at the beginning of the 70th week, then how can those in Judea flee to the mountains? 

That will do for now. I have more concerns

 

Hi Joe,

Not all Israelis head for the mountains. Remember 2/3rds are killed as the world armies come down from Armageddon to Jerusalem. (Zech. 13: 8)

Now follow on from Ez. 39: 7 & 8 we get to `Then those who dwell in the cities will go out and set on fire and burn the weapons....for 7 years.`  So the burning for 7 years follows God saying He will not let His Holy name be profaned any more. Thus the Tribulation!

The nations see the near annihilation of the Russian Federation etc but they choose to accept the Peace negotiator as man always thinks he can solve his own problems.

As to the `birds, and the earthquake,` they are common to both. However in Ez. 38: 19 & 20 the earthquake is `in the land of Israel, `  while the earthquake just before the Lord comes is world wide with every city falling `the cities of the nations fell.` (v. 19) (utterly amazing.) (Rev. 16: 17 - 21)

You are doing well to look into the details. Keep the questions coming, as I am enjoying looking at God`s word with you.

regards, Marilyn.

[Diaste]

On 1/6/2020 at 5:48 PM, Marilyn C said:

Hi Diaste,

Good questions.

A couple of reasons -

1. Ez. 39: 9. `Then those who dwell in the cities of Israel will go out and set on fire and burn the weapons,....and they will make fires with them for 7 years.`

2. Dan.  9: 27. `Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week,` (7 years).

After a war there is always a Peace treaty, covenant etc. Thus after the Russian war there will be a Peace Treaty for 7 years.

regards, Marilyn.

I understand. Where I fail is finding a connection to what you posted. I get that we are seeing a similarity, 7 years, but what tells us this "and they will make fires with them for 7 years." is the same 7 years as "Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week,"?

I have been able to nail down just when Israel burns the weapons for 7 years. I am of the mind it's just after the end of the last week. There are a few issues with events concerning the Israelis during the last week, not the least of which would be fleeing to the valley created by the splitting of the Mount of Olives when Jesus returns to mete out both justice and vengeance. It cannot be before the war obviously, and it seems it cannot be during the last week, which leaves sometime after the last week; assuming the 7 years of burning the weapons of war for heat and cooking is a consecutive 7 years. 

It's still looking like the Ezekiel 38 war is the final battle at the end of the last week. The reasons I see this follow:

"

19In My zeal and fiery rage I proclaim that on that day there will be a great earthquake in the land of Israel. 20The fish of the sea, the birds of the air, the beasts of the field, every creature that crawls upon the ground, and all mankind on the face of the earth will tremble at My presence. The mountains will be thrown down, the cliffs will collapse, and every wall will fall to the ground.

21And I will summon a sword against Gog on all My mountains, declares the Lord GOD, and every man’s sword will be against his brother. 22I will execute judgment upon him with plague and bloodshed. I will pour out torrents of rain, hailstones, fire, and brimstone on him and on his troops and on the many nations with him. 23I will magnify and sanctify Myself, and will reveal Myself in the sight of many nations. Then they will know that I am the LORD.”" - Eze 38

"

¹⁴ Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision: for the day of the Lord is near in the valley of decision.

¹⁵ The sun and the moon shall be darkened, and the stars shall withdraw their shining.

¹⁶ The Lord also shall roar out of Zion, and utter his voice from Jerusalem; and the heavens and the earth shall shake:" - Joel 3

"

¹⁶ And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.

¹⁷ And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.

¹⁸ And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great.

¹⁹ And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.

²⁰ And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found.

²¹ And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great." - Rev16

That's a lot of similarities.

 

[Justin Adams]

The 'Russian' war is a hangover from the anti-commie cold war rhetoric.

The 'north' encompasses Bashan and the underworld and is prophetically the'north' since Israel was attacked from the north due to the access of armies via the fertile crescent. That is why Yeshua went there (Mt Hermon) for the Transfiguration. (ref gen 6)

However the 'place of the serpent' or cosmic north seems to have been the most threatening of places for the prophets who often saw these visions in apocalyptic settings. Revelation re-purposes a lot of the ancient visions and melds them together. John was a wordsmith of uncanny ability and if Revelations and other vision are taken too literally, we find ourselves in the trap of our own modern day philosophy.

Our modern world view completely overlooks the Gen 6 account and the Babylon accounts in favor of modern theology. We overlook and apostles' focus on the real reason for human depravity,, thus making Adam the scapegoat for all wrongs on the planet. This is so wrong and so misleading.

If you miss second temple literature and Enoch, you will not understand the cosmic scenario. Qumran preserved this for us providentially. We must not overlook it.

[Justin Adams]

oops, maybe a double post.

All the allegories and apocalypse are just that. Too much literalism gets us into knots...

[Marilyn C]

11 hours ago, Diaste said:

I understand. ......

That's a lot of similarities.

 

Hi Diaste,

Similarities but also differences. Here is another difference -

1. Russian war against Israel on the mountains of Israel. God deals with them -

`I will call for a sword against Gog throughout all My mountains," says the Lord God, "Every man`s sword will be against his brother. And I will bring him to judgment with pestilence and bloodshed; I will rain down on him, on his troops and on the many peoples who are with him, flooding rain, great hailstones, fire, and brimstone.` (Ez. 38: 21 & 22)

2. The World War against Israel. The world`s armies loot and kill in Jerusalem and then gather in the Valley of Jehoshaphat outside Jerusalem. God deals with them -

`I will gather all nations and bring them down to the Valley of Jehoshaphat; and I will enter into judgment with them there.` (Joel 3: 2)

`And this shall be the plague with which the Lord will strike all the people who fought against Jerusalem : their flesh shall dissolve while they stand on their feet, their eyes shall dissolve in their sockets, and their tongues shall dissolve in their mouths.` (Zech. 14: 12) 

Marilyn.

[OldCoot]

15 hours ago, Justin Adams said:

oops, maybe a double post.

All the allegories and apocalypse are just that. Too much literalism gets us into knots...

Well, it is true that the scripture uses many forms of rhetorical devices, with allegory being one of them.  But unless it is clearly an allegory, like the following, it is not wise to default to an allegorical interpretation....

Ruth 2:12 (NKJV) The Lord repay your work, and a full reward be given you by the Lord God of Israel, under whose wings you have come for refuge."

The Lord is not one who has feathers.  So the "wings" is allegorical.    But in most cases, if the plain sense of the passage makes sense, then seek no other sense, lest one ends up with nonsense.   And Revelation, for instance, is 404 verses with over 500 references to the OT alone.  What may appear to be allegorical may in fact be defined earlier in scripture.    I would contend the opposite, that not taking the scripture literal enough is what leads to much confusion.  If one defaults to allegorical methodology, it then becomes too subjective.

Oh, if you were to talk to many Jewish theologians, the "wings" of the passage above has a meaning of the tzitzit of the prayer shawl.  Those fringes or tzitzit on the prayer shawl are sometimes referenced as "wings".   And that would fit the passage from Ruth quite well.   

Edited January 9, 2020 by OldCoot