What is your interpretation of this scripture?

[Willa]

1Co 14:34 NKJV Let your women keep silent in the churches, for they are not permitted to speak; but they are to be submissive, as the law also says.

1Co 14:35  And if they want to learn something, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is shameful for women to speak in church.

Women were not to disrupt the sermon by asking the pastor questions. They were to wait till they got home to ask their husbands questions.  All was to be done in due order. Women were allowed to take part in the service when asked to do so by the pastor.  

Perhaps some women are inclined to do this.   I am not inclined to do this in church.  During football or rugby games I would often ask my husband why a call was made.  However, it really bugs me when someone disrupts the sermon to show her husband a cute photo or what someone said on facebook.  It ends up disturbing everyone around them. 

 

[Willa]

1 hour ago, Margo1945 said:

can you cite the Scripture that specifically says women cannot be pastors 

1Ti 2:11  Let a woman learn in silence with all submission.

1Ti 2:12  And I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence.

.1Ti 3:1  This is a faithful saying: If a man desires the position of a bishop, he desires a good work.1Ti 3:2  A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, temperate, sober-minded, of good behavior, hospitable, able to teach;

1Ti 3:3  not given to wine, not violent, not greedy for money, but gentle, not quarrelsome, not covetous;

1Ti 3:4  one who rules his own house well, having hischildren in submission with all reverence

1Ti 3:5  (for if a man does not know how to rule his own house, how will he take care of the church of God?);

1Ti 3:6  not a novice, lest being puffed up with pride he fall into the same condemnation as the devil.

1Ti 3:7  Moreover he must have a good testimony among those who are outside, lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.

Word Study Dictionary:

The term bishop denotes a superior or inspector, but tells us nothing of what he supervises or inspects. It may be buildings, or business, or men. In the NT, it means an overseer of men in reference to their spiritual life, and is closely connected with the idea of shepherding. 1Pe 2:25 refers to Jesus Christ as "the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls." This indicates that He who is the shepherd is also the overseer of the entire flock. To the elders of the church of Ephesus (Act 20:17), Paul commands "Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock [poímnion {G4168}], over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers [episkópous] to feed [poimaínei, aor. act. inf. of poimaínō {G4165}, to shepherd] the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood" (Act 20:28).

[Ruth Also]

On 1/7/2020 at 1:49 PM, joebloggs said:

1 Corinthians 14:34-35 (NIV)

³⁴ Women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the law says. ³⁵ If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church.

what do you think this scripture intends to communicate to us?

One important reminder is that Paul wrote letters in response to situations going on in the local groups, or answering questions those local groups asked him.  As someone put it, you need to remember that you are reading a letter addressed to someone else.  So we are necessarily missing part of the story.  Paul would have taught in accordance to the "Holy Scriptures" which are able to make you wise unto salvation (as he said to Timothy), and not in contradiction to it, showing how Jesus fulfilled what was written.  So it might be good to be grounded in the old testament concepts, because that's all the "Holy Scriptures" they had when Paul was writing his letters.  What important concepts can you pick out from the law, prophets, songs, proverbs, and stories that would help you understand this section of Paul's letter to the Corinthians?  What does the law say, and why?  What might have been different in the Corinthian culture that just wasn't fitting with the way God had always had them doing their life and culture?  Why might it be important to make any comments to the Corinthians about this?  I've always been hesitant to come down to a firm decision since I wasn't there to see why Paul might want to address this concern or what it might mean, and he didn't put it in his overall "gospel according to Paul" to all the locations, which makes me think all the more that it was a local cultural type of question, maybe something in their culture that made this situation more disruptive than helpful.  I can hardly imagine Paul NOT wanting the women to learn and be all that they could be in Christ as members in His Body.  Just my thoughts.

[missmuffet]

2 hours ago, Margo1945 said:

can you cite the Scripture that specifically says women cannot be pastors 

 This is from a very reliable online ministry.

Question: "What does the Bible say about women pastors?"

Answer: There is perhaps no more hotly debated issue in the church today than the issue of women serving as pastors. As a result, it is very important to not see this issue as men versus women. There are women who believe women should not serve as pastors and that the Bible places restrictions on the ministry of women, and there are men who believe women can serve as pastors and that there are no restrictions on women in ministry. This is not an issue of chauvinism or discrimination. It is an issue of biblical interpretation.
The Word of God proclaims, “A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent” (1 Timothy 2:11–12). In the church, God assigns different roles to men and women. This is a result of the way mankind was created and the way in which sin entered the world (1 Timothy 2:13–14). God, through the apostle Paul, restricts women from serving in roles of teaching and/or having spiritual authority over men. This precludes women from serving as pastors over men, which definitely includes preaching to them, teaching them publicly, and exercising spiritual authority over them.

There are many objections to this view of women in pastoral ministry. A common one is that Paul restricts women from teaching because in the first century, women were typically uneducated. However, 1 Timothy 2:11–14 nowhere mentions educational status. If education were a qualification for ministry, then the majority of Jesus’ disciples would not have been qualified. A second common objection is that Paul only restricted the women of Ephesus from teaching men (1 Timothy was written to Timothy, the pastor of the church in Ephesus). Ephesus was known for its temple to Artemis, and women were the authorities in that branch of paganism—therefore, the theory goes, Paul was only reacting against the female-led customs of the Ephesian idolaters, and the church needed to be different. However, the book of 1 Timothy nowhere mentions Artemis, nor does Paul mention the standard practice of Artemis worshipers as a reason for the restrictions in 1 Timothy 2:11–12.

A third objection is that Paul is only referring to husbands and wives, not men and women in general. The Greek words for “woman” and “man” in 1 Timothy 2 could refer to husbands and wives; however, the basic meaning of the words is broader than that. Further, the same Greek words are used in verses 8–10. Are only husbands to lift up holy hands in prayer without anger and disputing (verse 8)? Are only wives to dress modestly, have good deeds, and worship God (verses 9–10)? Of course not. Verses 8–10 clearly refer to all men and women, not just husbands and wives. There is nothing in the context that would indicate a narrowing to husbands and wives in verses 11–14.

Yet another objection to this interpretation of women in pastoral ministry is in relation to women who held positions of leadership in the Bible, specifically Miriam, Deborah, and Huldah in the Old Testament. It is true that these women were chosen by God for special service to Him and that they stand as models of faith, courage, and, yes, leadership. However, the authority of women in the Old Testament is not relevant to the issue of pastors in the church. The New Testament Epistles present a new paradigm for God’s people—the church, the body of Christ—and that paradigm involves an authority structure unique to the church, not for the nation of Israel or any other Old Testament entity.

Similar arguments are made using Priscilla and Phoebe in the New Testament. In Acts 18, Priscilla and Aquila are presented as faithful ministers for Christ. Priscilla’s name is mentioned first, perhaps indicating that she was more prominent in ministry than her husband. Did Priscilla and her husband teach the gospel of Jesus Christ to Apollos? Yes, in their home they “explained to him the way of God more adequately” (Acts 18:26). Does the Bible ever say that Priscilla pastored a church or taught publicly or became the spiritual leader of a congregation of saints? No. As far as we know, Priscilla was not involved in ministry activity in contradiction to 1 Timothy 2:11–14.

In Romans 16:1, Phoebe is called a “deacon” (or “servant”) in the church and is highly commended by Paul. But, as with Priscilla, there is nothing in Scripture to indicate that Phoebe was a pastor or a teacher of men in the church. “Able to teach” is given as a qualification for elders, but not for deacons (1 Timothy 3:1–13; Titus 1:6–9).

The structure of 1 Timothy 2:11–14 makes the reason why women cannot be pastors perfectly clear. Verse 13 begins with “for,” giving the “cause” of Paul’s statement in verses 11–12. Why should women not teach or have authority over men? Because “Adam was created first, then Eve. And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived” (verses 13–14). God created Adam first and then created Eve to be a “helper” for Adam. The order of creation has universal application in the family (Ephesians 5:22–33) and in the church.

The fact that Eve was deceived is also given in 1 Timothy 2:14 as a reason for women not serving as pastors or having spiritual authority over men. This does not mean that women are gullible or that they are all more easily deceived than men. If all women are more easily deceived, why would they be allowed to teach children (who are easily deceived) and other women (who are supposedly more easily deceived)? The text simply says that women are not to teach men or have spiritual authority over men because Eve was deceived. God has chosen to give men the primary teaching authority in the church.

Many women excel in gifts of hospitality, mercy, teaching, evangelism, and helping/serving. Much of the ministry of the local church depends on women. Women in the church are not restricted from public praying or prophesying (1 Corinthians 11:5), only from having spiritual teaching authority over men. The Bible nowhere restricts women from exercising the gifts of the Holy Spirit (1 Corinthians 12). Women, just as much as men, are called to minister to others, to demonstrate the fruit of the Spirit (Galatians 5:22–23), and to proclaim the gospel to the lost (Matthew 28:18–20; Acts 1:8; 1 Peter 3:15).

God has ordained that only men are to serve in positions of spiritual teaching authority in the church. This is not because men are necessarily better teachers or because women are inferior or less intelligent (which is not the case). It is simply the way God designed the church to function. Men are to set the example in spiritual leadership—in their lives and through their words. Women are to take a less authoritative role. Women are encouraged to teach other women (Titus 2:3–5). The Bible also does not restrict women from teaching children. The only activity women are restricted from is teaching or having spiritual authority over men. This precludes women from serving as pastors to men. This does not make women less important, by any means, but rather gives them a ministry focus more in agreement with God’s plan and His gifting of them.

https://www.gotquestions.org/women-pastors.html

 

Edited January 9, 2020 by missmuffet

[missmuffet]

1 hour ago, Margo1945 said:

thank you for your indepth response, @missmuffet .. I responded to Willa's post, so won't repeat myself here .. you mention that one main reason was that it was Eve who was deceived by Satan, not Adam .. well, when Eve told Adam, was he deceived then by Satan via Eve or did he, knowing it would be sinful, succumb to eating the fruit forbidden them .. I think both were equally sinful in their choices to disobey God's command to them .. when Eve came to Adam and told him what had happened, why didn't Adam say, "Noooooo, Eve .. what you did was very wrong and disobedient to God's command to us .. I am not going to commit that same disobedience .. I am sorry but you will have to face God for your disobedience but I shall not disobey Him, too." .. Adam knew what Eve did was disobeying God's command but he chose to disobey God's command, too .. thus, I do not think Eve's succumbing to Satan's deception was any greater a sin than Adam's succumbing to Eve's enticing him with the deceit Satan used for her .. Adam could have and should have said NO and not sinned with Eve .. and if he was supposedly the better higher person as a man, why didn't he ..  

As I stated in my post these are the words of Got Questions which is an online ministry. Those are not my words. I respect Got Questions for their true word of God. It is not that women are not intelligent enough to be a Pastor it is God's words in the Bible that says only men can be a pastor of a Church. You disagree as a human being but what does God say?I think their is enough scripture in the post to firmly say that is Gods word. We can not let pride get in the way and we can not compromise God's word. 

[RogerDC]

On 1/8/2020 at 5:49 AM, joebloggs said:

1 Corinthians 14:34-35 (NIV)

³⁴ Women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the law says. ³⁵ If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church.

what do you think this scripture intends to communicate to us?

It is trying to communicate to us that feminism is ungodly.  In my opinion, feminism a demonic "wolf in sheep's clothing".  Giving women power is dangerous - little wonder both the OT and NT speak against female leadership.

[angels4u]

On 1/7/2020 at 6:47 PM, other one said:

what parts of the Bible can I not trust....     Even the Gospels are what other people say Jesus said....     God or Jesus themselves did not say anything themselves in the bible.   The entire Bible is hearsay....   and it would be very dangerous to not trust any of it.

 

Don't you believe the gospel and whole Bible is inspired by the Holy Spirit?

All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,2 Tim 3:16
 

[George]

I removed some comments from this thread.   Talk SUBJECT ... never take it personal.  These are how posts are removed from threads, when it becomes bad enough, threads get locked down ... when it's out of control ... they get deleted.     

LOVE with one another, LEARN from one another, and let us ENCOURAGE one another! 

[6DaysiseneG]

God used plenty women in the Bible.. He had to because in those situations like in Judges, Barak would not obey the Lord to his vocation. Barak didn't get the glory of that battle if you recall as Deborah said. He basically said, Deborah I'm too scared to go alone come with me and I'll go.lol... and Jael was the woman , again, God used to kill Sisera. Where men are not obeying God to follow their vocation to lead, God rose up godly women as a judgement. God made men leaders and women helpers. Why is this offensive? 

[other one]

4 hours ago, angels4u said:

Don't you believe the gospel and whole Bible is inspired by the Holy Spirit?

All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,2 Tim 3:16
 

it's not me that doesn't believe it, it's Johnthebaptist…..     saying that Paul miss spoke.    I'm just asking him if I can't trust what Paul has said,, what other parts should we not believe....   once you start in not believing one thing, where does it stop.   You have to keep his posts in mind to understand where I'm coming from...