Apostasy 101

[Alive]

We can no more come out of Christ than we can put ourselves there. Grace through the gift of faith joins us to Christ and His Grace keeps us there.

Nothing can change the 'New Birth'. We died and were raised in a New Life--which is Christ. I wonder how the prideful can think they had something to do with this act and work of God Almighty--our Redeemer?

This is folly. Abiding in Him as an ongoing experience has nothing to do with the New Birth, it is what happens as a result of the new creation.

Can God be killed? Can His very Nature and purpose be thwarted by weak humanity?

This is a fundamental distinction and one that is misunderstood by those with the pride to think that their own efforts or lack of can undue what God has done.

You who were born from above have been sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise as a guarantee....there is only one end in sight for these.

Forgiveness of sin now and forever and eternal Life in Christ. You have been purchased with a great price. Bought back by His precious blood.

Do you see, people. God Almighty has purchased you as His own possession and He will not give up His possession. He is God Almighty and you are forever His.

No return certificate or receipt exists. The purchase is final--no returns.

[Desopixi Seilynam]

Alive, that is simply not what the scripture says. 

Ephesians 5:5, 1 Corinthians 6:9-10, Galatians 5:18-24, 1 John 2:3-4, 2 John 1:9-10, Hebrews 10:26-29.

"If we sin willingly, (against Christ, vs 28-29) there remains no more sacrifice of sin, but a certain fearful looking for of judgement and fiery indignation which shall devour the adversaries." Hebrews 10:26.

The scripture makes clear that we must continually follow the Spirit. Those that sincerely believe, will continually follow the Spirit unto the salvation of their souls.

 

Notice also what Paul said;

"If any man provide not for his own, especially they of his own household, he has denied the faith and is worse than a non-believer". 1 Timothy 5:8.  Someone going to heaven is not worse than a non-believer. Therefore it is clear due to that passage, that a denying of the faith, leading to damnation; not going to heaven, can happen to one who "believed".

 

"If anyone does not LOVE the Lord Jesus Christ, let that one be anathema, Oh Lord come!" 1 Corinthians 16:22

"He that has my commands and keeps them, he it is that loves me" John 14:21-23

We must love Christ, otherwise Paul's anathema applies to us.

His Spirit that is in us, is leading and guiding us, empowering us to practice the teachings of Christ.

If we resist that leading, we become the enemies of God, and are therefore worthy of drastic punishment.

Hebrews 10:26-29.

[Alive]

@Desopixi Seilynamyou do not understand what God has done for those who are taken out of the old Adam and placed into the New--the Second Man--Christ.

 

Edited January 15, 2020 by Alive

[Justin Adams]

31 minutes ago, Desopixi Seilynam said:

"If we sin willingly, (against Christ, vs 28-29) there remains no more sacrifice of sin, but a certain fearful looking for of judgement and fiery indignation which shall devour the adversaries." Hebrews 10:26.

Out of context. He was talking to those who had returned to the old sacrificial ways. It was a time of persecution and much personal pressure was put on the new believers from the Judaic crowd.

You MUST understand: a) to whom it was written and b) the actual context of those that it was written to.

[Desopixi Seilynam]

"If you are led by the Spirit you are not under the law"

Therefore we must be led by the Spirit.

"What avails anything is faith that works by love." Not a passive faith, an active faith that works, by love.

"For faith without works is dead, being alone".

 

God is not a respecter of  persons, therefore it can not be that there is one set of rules to Jews and a different set to Gentiles.

The author of Hebrews is talking to believers in Christ;

"Of how much worse punishment, suppose ye, shall he be worthy of, that has trampled under foot the Son of God,

and has counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing and has insulted the Spirit of Grace?"  

Both Jew and Gentile believers are sanctified by the Holy Ghost, therefore clearly the passage is for all believers.

We can not resist the work of the Holy Ghost in our lives, and expect to be accepted by God in the end,

for blaspheme against the Holy Ghost will never be forgiven.

 

"Not everyone that says to me Lord Lord shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he that does the will of my Father which is in heaven." The will of the Father in relation to the Son is Deuteronomy 18:18-19 that we listen to the Son.

"Therefore... everyone that HEARS these sayings of mine and does not put them into practice is like a fool that built his house upon the sand." Matthew 7:21-28, 2 John 1:9-10. 

[DeighAnn]

On 1/12/2020 at 5:52 AM, Chris1975 said:

Ephesians 6
18 praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, being watchful to this end with all perseverance and supplication for all the saints—

 

Gods elect,  written from the foundation of the world,  besides all the other reasons Jesus came, it was for those who were scattered. And THEN was salvation opened to the Gentiles, whomsoever would.   In Hebrews, written to the nation under its earliest name, there are certain promises made.  But those promises such as " irrevocable calling and gifts" are made to THEM, not to the whomsoever would.  To claim the promise given them is "also" for the whomsoever would, would lead those who don't ABIDE into a false belief of being always saved.  Any thoughts?  

[Chris1975]

On 1/21/2020 at 6:56 PM, DeighAnn said:

Gods elect,  written from the foundation of the world,  besides all the other reasons Jesus came, it was for those who were scattered. And THEN was salvation opened to the Gentiles, whomsoever would.   In Hebrews, written to the nation under its earliest name, there are certain promises made.  But those promises such as " irrevocable calling and gifts" are made to THEM, not to the whomsoever would.  To claim the promise given them is "also" for the whomsoever would, would lead those who don't ABIDE into a false belief of being always saved.  Any thoughts?  

Correct. The favourite go to verse by the once saved always saved community is the following: Roman 11v29 ²⁹ For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.

Then they claim it in the following way: I repented, believed in the gospel of Jesus Christ, and am now saved.

And this is true. So long as you CONTINUE in the faith (many scriptures can be provided upon request).

But because of the legalistic claim to the above verse, they say that once the gift of salvation is given it cannot be lost.

But we need to look at the surrounding verses around Romans 11v29 to see if this is IN FACT what the Lord is saying. Lets look at it:

 

Romans 11

²⁵ For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own ^[f]opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. ²⁶ And so all Israel will be ^[g]saved, as it is written:

“The Deliverer will come out of Zion,
And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob;
²⁷ For this is My covenant with them,
When I take away their sins.”

²⁸ Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers. ²⁹ For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. ³⁰ For as you were once disobedient to God, yet have now obtained mercy through their disobedience, ³¹ even so these also have now been disobedient, that through the mercy shown you they also may obtain mercy. ³² For God has ^[h]committed them all to disobedience, that He might have mercy on all.

 

- so what can be clearly seen here is the CONTEXT in which this is written.

-It is written about ISRAEL as a corporate body. It is the promises made to the forefathers, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob (Israel).

-It means that God has not forgotten Israel even though they rejected the Messiah who came. Thus salvation was opened to the Gentiles. But God has NOT forgotten them, because of His promises according to Election (to Israel). He too will restore these NATURAL BRANCHES at the appointed time, once the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.

So we cannot apply this to the case of an individual believer, who turns back from God after having believed. This one is not saved. Nor can we apply this to a person who once believed but now wilfully lives in unrepentant sin. This one is not saved.

 

[Willa]

On 1/12/2020 at 4:42 AM, Chris1975 said:

Galatians 5
1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage. 2 Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing. 3 And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law. 4 You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace. 5 For we through the Spirit eagerly wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.

So here are the questions to those who deny the apostasy is a real risk to be aware of (for true believers).

1) Those mentioned above were in liberty (v1) - Are these Christians?
2) These same people are warned not to be entangled again. (v1) - Can they be found in slavery once again?
3) The consequence is estrangement from Christ (v4) - How do you become estranged if you were not in union?
4) The fall from Grace (v4) - To those who claim Grace cannot be lost, how then does the bible say that it is lost here?

 

The choice it to trust in God's free merciful grace when we know we don't deserve it, or we trust in our own works which seek to merit salvation and is what most religions practice.  Depending on God's grace is what sets Christianity apart.  Gal 2:21  I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness were through the law, then Christ died for no purpose.

Rom 4:2  ESV For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God.

Rom 4:3  For what does the Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness."

Rom 4:4  Now to the one who works, his wages are not counted as a gift but as his due.

Rom 4:5  And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness,

[Willa]

1 hour ago, Chris1975 said:

So we cannot apply this to the case of an individual believer, who turns back from God after having believed. This one is not saved. Nor can we apply this to a person who once believed but now wilfully lives in unrepentant sin. This one is not saved.

 

The person who turns back from God and embraces another religion as the Hebrews were doing are the ones who fall from grace.  They are rejecting Christ's sacrifice and turning back to Judaism.  They are again depending on the law and the daily sacrifices (which had ended with the destruction of the temple).  It is not referring to unrepentant sin.  The latter may cause them to harden their hearts.  But God chastens those He loves if they are true believers and their faith proves to be genuine when tested.  There are always the tares whose faith is not genuine.

[Chris1975]

13 minutes ago, Willa said:

The person who turns back from God and embraces another religion as the Hebrews were doing are the ones who fall from grace.  They are rejecting Christ's sacrifice and turning back to Judaism.  They are again depending on the law and the daily sacrifices (which had ended with the destruction of the temple).  It is not referring to unrepentant sin.  The latter may cause them to harden their hearts.  But God chastens those He loves if they are true believers and their faith proves to be genuine when tested.  There are always the tares whose faith is not genuine.

Unrepentant sin will keep you from salvation. You cannot have Christ and your pet sins. By your actions you choose whom your Master is.

If you are without chastening (reject chastening) you are not sons but slaves.

John 8 ³⁴ Jesus answered them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, whoever commits sin is a slave of sin. ³⁵ And a slave does not abide in the house forever, but a son abides forever. ³⁶ Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed.

Amplified Hebrews 10 ²⁶ For if we go on willfully and deliberately sinning after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice [to atone] for our sins [that is, no further offering to anticipate],

Romans 6 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? ² Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it?

1 Corinthians 15 ³⁴ Awake to righteousness, and do not sin; for some do not have the knowledge of God. I speak this to your shame.

1 John 3 ⁴ Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. ⁵ And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. ⁶ Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him. ⁷ Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. ⁸ He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil.

Romans 8 ¹² Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. ¹³ For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. ¹⁴ For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.

 

Where is the scope for unrepentant sin?