Jump to content
IGNORED

Is it beneficial for the dead to pray for them?


Guest K9Buck

Recommended Posts

On 1/22/2020 at 7:02 AM, marvelloustime said:

Once we leave our physical bodies and go to be with the Lord, all worldly desires are left behind.

1 John 2:15-16

Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world—the desires of the flesh and the desires of the eyes and pride in possessions—is not from the Father but is from the world.

Thank you but, how do you know that "all" worldly desires leave us upon our physical death?  I didn't see an explanation for that in the verse that you quoted.  Thank you in advance.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Royal Member
  • Followers:  15
  • Topic Count:  206
  • Topics Per Day:  0.11
  • Content Count:  5,608
  • Content Per Day:  2.88
  • Reputation:   11,415
  • Days Won:  33
  • Joined:  11/26/2018
  • Status:  Offline

On 1/24/2020 at 9:44 AM, K9Buck said:

Thank you but, how do you know that "all" worldly desires leave us upon our physical death?  I didn't see an explanation for that in the verse that you quoted.  Thank you in advance.  

Hi @K9Buck

I hope this answers it for you.

https://www.gotquestions.org/heaven-sin.html

Will it be possible for us to sin in heaven?


Question: "Will it be possible for us to sin in heaven?"
 

Will it be possible for us to sin in heaven?

Question: "Will it be possible for us to sin in heaven?"

Answer: The Bible describes heaven or the eternal state in great detail in Revelation chapters 21–22. Nowhere in those chapters is the possibility of sin mentioned. In fact, we have the promise that, in the eternal state, we will never experience death, sorrow, crying, or pain (Revelation 21:4)—the absence of those things is proof positive that sin is also absent, since those things are the product of sin (see Romans 6:23).

The sinful will not be in heaven but in the lake of fire (Revelation 21:8). Nothing impure will ever enter heaven (Revelation 21:27). Outside of heaven are those who sin (Revelation 22:15). An Old Testament prophecy also assures us that the Kingdom of God will exclude sinfulness:
“A highway will be there;
it will be called the Way of Holiness;
it will be for those who walk on that Way.
The unclean will not journey on it;
wicked fools will not go about on it. . . .
But only the redeemed will walk there” (Isaiah 35:8–9).
So, the answer is, no, it will not be possible for us to sin in heaven.

God wills our sanctification (1 Thessalonians 4:3); that is, He wills to make us holy and free of sin. Our sanctification has three phases: positional sanctification, which saves us from the penalty of sin at the moment of faith in Christ; progressive sanctification, which saves us from the power of sin as we grow in Christ; and complete sanctification, which saves us from the presence of sin as we enter the presence of Christ. “When Christ appears, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is” (1 John 3:2). In other words, the process by which God sanctifies us involves justification, maturation, and glorification.

The glorification that God promises His children (Romans 8:30) necessarily includes sinlessness, because sinful beings cannot be glorious. Heaven, the place of God’s glory, is sinless. Paul prays in 1 Thessalonians 5:23, “May the God of peace himself sanctify you completely” (ESV), and he links the glorious appearing of Christ to our personal glorification: “When Christ, who is your life, appears, then you also will appear with him in glory” (Colossians 3:4). This glorified state will be our ultimate separation from sin, a total sanctification in every regard. It will not be possible for us to sin in heaven.

James 1:14 provides another assurance that we will not sin in heaven: “Each person is tempted when they are dragged away by their own evil desire and enticed.” In this sinful world, we face temptation daily, and James identifies two forces that prompt us to sin: our own evil desire (our sin nature) and enticement (the devil’s schemes). Neither of those forces will be in heaven. Our sin nature will have been eradicated in our glorification, and the tempter will have been consigned to the lake of fire where he can do us no harm (Revelation 20:10).

The Bible’s teaching is that heaven or the eternal state is completely holy. There will be no possibility of sin, we will be clothed with righteousness (Revelation 19:8), and will we be eternally confirmed in our state of bliss. The work that God promised to complete in us will have been finished (Philippians 1:6). Our deliverance will be complete, as the elect are redeemed—body, soul, and mind—to the glory of the Lamb (Revelation 5:6–10).

 

 

https://www.compellingtruth.org/heaven-sin.html
 

Will it be possible to sin in heaven? Will people in heaven be able to sin?

The Bible is clear that it will be impossible for humans to sin in heaven. A close look at Revelation 21 and 22, the New Testament's final chapters, offers several insights that indicate sin will no longer remain in the new heaven in eternity future.

Revelation 21:4 notes the future removal of any pain or problems: "He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain anymore."

This same verse notes the reason there would no longer be death or pain: "for the former things have passed away." The new heaven and new earth will exist without the curse of sin found in this world.

The description of the new heaven and heavenly city includes an absence of sin. Revelation 21:27 states, "But nothing unclean will ever enter it, nor anyone who does what is detestable or false, but only those who are written in the Lamb's book of life."

Revelation 22:3 states, "No longer will there be anything accursed." The curse of sin that entered humanity with Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden in Genesis 3 will be removed. 

The focus will be God and worship of Him. Revelation 22:3 continues, "but the throne of God and of the Lamb will be in it, and his servants will worship him."

Revelation 22:14-15 contrasts the holy ones in God's presence with the sinners who live outside: "Blessed are those who wash their robes, so that they may have the right to the tree of life and that they may enter the city by the gates. Outside are the dogs and sorcerers and the sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices falsehood." These evil ones have no ability to enter into the sinless presence of the Lord in this future eternal state.

Revelation 22 concludes with the author John proclaiming, "Come, Lord Jesus!" (Revelation 22:20). He longed for a future time when sin would be no more.

Scripture provides a clear conclusion that there will be no sin in heaven. Our bodies will be different, the curse of sin will be removed, and we will be in direct access to God's presence as believers. The focus will be on the worship and glory of God.

  • This is Worthy 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Worthy Ministers
  • Followers:  0
  • Topic Count:  897
  • Topics Per Day:  0.19
  • Content Count:  9,621
  • Content Per Day:  2.03
  • Reputation:   5,821
  • Days Won:  9
  • Joined:  04/07/2011
  • Status:  Offline

On 1/19/2020 at 11:13 PM, K9Buck said:

Or is it pointless?  I suppose the answer depends upon whether or not you believe that one can be saved after their physical death.  

What is your belief?  Thank you.

Hebrews 9:27 (AV)
27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Advanced Member
  • Followers:  2
  • Topic Count:  7
  • Topics Per Day:  0.00
  • Content Count:  467
  • Content Per Day:  0.29
  • Reputation:   153
  • Days Won:  0
  • Joined:  11/20/2019
  • Status:  Offline

On 1/26/2020 at 9:00 AM, JohnD said:

Hebrews 9:27 (AV)
27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

 

It is possible the word translated as "once" can also mean "first". 

It is quite possible the Letter to the Hebrews was originally written in Hebrew or possibly Aramaic (not Greek).  The people of Christ's day, the Hebrews, mostly spoke Aramaic.  That is the language Jesus spoke.  In Aramaic as in the Hebrew, the word echad (Strong's #0259) can mean "first" or "one" (from which we get "once"). 

"It is appointed unto men first to die, but after this the judgment." 

Just saying that we get the sum total of our lives to decide. 

There were a few who were resurrected to continue their physical lives:  Jesus' friend Lazarus, the widow's son, Dorcas, the boy who died of heat stroke in the OT.  They weren't judged until after they died for good.  Same principle might apply to those resuscitated after heart stoppage.  They're not "judged" til they really die for good. 

Edited by Resurrection Priest
Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Worthy Ministers
  • Followers:  29
  • Topic Count:  593
  • Topics Per Day:  0.08
  • Content Count:  55,868
  • Content Per Day:  7.55
  • Reputation:   27,619
  • Days Won:  271
  • Joined:  12/29/2003
  • Status:  Offline

On 1/26/2020 at 8:45 AM, marvelloustime said:

Will it be possible for us to sin in heaven?

certainly was for lucifer....   what's changed?

  • Thumbs Up 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Worthy Ministers
  • Followers:  0
  • Topic Count:  897
  • Topics Per Day:  0.19
  • Content Count:  9,621
  • Content Per Day:  2.03
  • Reputation:   5,821
  • Days Won:  9
  • Joined:  04/07/2011
  • Status:  Offline

10 hours ago, Resurrection Priest said:

It is possible the word translated as "once" can also mean "first". 

It is quite possible the Letter to the Hebrews was originally written in Hebrew or possibly Aramaic (not Greek).  The people of Christ's day, the Hebrews, mostly spoke Aramaic.  That is the language Jesus spoke.  In Aramaic as in the Hebrew, the word echad (Strong's #0259) can mean "first" or "one" (from which we get "once"). 

"It is appointed unto men first to die, but after this the judgment." 

Just saying that we get the sum total of our lives to decide. 

There were a few who were resurrected to continue their physical lives:  Jesus' friend Lazarus, the widow's son, Dorcas, the boy who died of heat stroke in the OT.  They weren't judged until after they died for good.  Same principle might apply to those resuscitated after heart stoppage.  They're not "judged" til they really die for good. 

What bearing does this have on the topic?

1. Once one dies and stays that way the opportunity to repent from unbelief in Jesus to belief for forgiveness of sins is over.

Once one dies and stays dead, they join the angels who believe Jesus is real, is God incarnate, and he died for the sins of mankind...

but there is no opportunity for this belief (knowledge in fact) to change their eternal damnation. Jesus did not become an angel to die for angels.

He became a man, and died for mankind and rose the third day. Angels cannot die, so they could not be redeemed. Humanity was created

with the capacity to die so that we could be redeemed.

2. After this the judgment... meaning prayers for the dead are useless. There is a mention in one of Paul's letters to the Corinthians (if memory serves)

about a pre-Christian conversion practice of praying for the dead which Paul used as an example and not a doctrine. Like the Olympic runners and the boxers

etc. He was citing non-Christian things in the world to make his points. Once people die what they believed or did not believe, what they did or didn't do cannot 

be altered in the judgment by the prayers of people alive down here... or the pleading of the dead up there (Matthew 7:21-23). Death  is the transition

from the temporary to the eternal.

3. We are all predisposed to destination hell (lake of fire)

John 3:18 (AV)
18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned ALREADY, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Faith in Jesus Christ activates our prepaid salvation (prepaid by the once for all sacrifice of Jesus Christ on the cross) is the ONLY things that changes that predestination of humanity

from hell / the lake of fire to salvation.

Hebrews 10:10 (AV)
10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

Interesting to see if your argument for an Aramaic Yachid versus Echad stands up on this point and verse.

Oh, and if you are correct and we are first to die then the judgment... what about:

1 Corinthians 15:51 (AV)
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

Those folks won't die first, Enoch and Elijah didn't die...

So man is appointed first to die then the judgment... had holes in it.

Once to die obviously applies to those who died and stayed dead.

 

Edited by JohnD
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 5 months later...

  • Group:  Diamond Member
  • Followers:  1
  • Topic Count:  1
  • Topics Per Day:  0.00
  • Content Count:  1,176
  • Content Per Day:  0.87
  • Reputation:   126
  • Days Won:  0
  • Joined:  07/07/2020
  • Status:  Offline
  • Birthday:  04/29/1987

On 1/20/2020 at 5:13 AM, Guest K9Buck said:

Or is it pointless?  I suppose the answer depends upon whether or not you believe that one can be saved after their physical death.  

What is your belief?  Thank you.

I don't think we can change anything in a dead person's life. When a person lives their life on this earth and dies, they are no longer judging themselves and proving to god why he should save them or not.

It is appointed for men once to die and after that the judgement. Hebrews 9.27

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...