Guest K9Buck Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 For me, I believe it's the "first cause" argument. The available science points to the universe having a beginning. We know that nothing in the universe, including the universe itself, is capable of causing itself to come into existence. We know that everything that happens in the universe has a cause. Basic logic dictates that the universe had a cause and that the cause had to exist outside of the universe. That "first cause", of course, is our creator, otherwise known as "God". Thereafter, atheists will ask "Who made God?" The response is that something, or someone, has always existed and didn't need another to "cause" it into existence. Again, one doesn't have to be an astrophysicist to know this - it's basic logic. The committed atheist will simply say that "we just don't know" and then accuse you of using a "God of the gaps" argument. To be an atheist requires one to reject basic, unassailable logic. There are other arguments, of course, that support the existence of God, but I believe this to be the best. What are yours? On another note, Dinesh D'Souza correctly said that, in order for us to help others to find God, we need to be a little more "bilingual" with regard to being able to discuss the logical and scientific arguments for God as opposed to an argument that is biblically based, as atheists certainly don't recognize the bible as an authority on anything. He's right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ineedhugs Posted January 20, 2020 Group: Junior Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 16 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 103 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 54 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/13/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted January 20, 2020 What does the bible say? The bible says in Romans that unbelief in god is inexcusable because of what's been made. In other words, how did this complex well made universe get here? The fact that god made and sustains this universe fits perfectly. It's been said that there are 40 things about earth that if one was off by a bit, life wouldn't exist. I think one of them is gravity. So that suggests that the life has a designer. Atheists will say but who made god? To that i say who made the cells of evolution or the who made the big bang? They also cannot answer that. Neither will i answer mine. I know that 'something else' could of made us but god fits perfectly and i think we would know what made us. Like if another life form made us they would leave a message....you know? If i had to guess what made us i would guess the christian god and i would probably be right. Then we have the bible. Now the bible is 66 books written by 40 authors. There's also books that weren't included in the bible such as the book of enoch. I don't know about you but 80 or so books written by dozens of people being passed down from generation to generation is strong evidence in my book. Then there is the fact that there is evidence outside the bible for Jesus existence. These documents say stuff like 'he led Israel astray with sorcery', 'he did miraculous deeds' and he was crucified by Pilate. Jesus defiantly existed and what is said about him suggests he was the son of god. Finally the fact that Jesus didn't back down from crucifixion suggests he wasn't making it up that he was the messiah. Documents outside the bible and the bible confirm he was crucified. I don't think you would go through that if you were lying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R. Hartono Posted January 20, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 772 Topics Per Day: 0.34 Content Count: 6,929 Content Per Day: 3.07 Reputation: 1,979 Days Won: 1 Joined: 02/15/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted January 20, 2020 If life came from Cell evolution we Will become a bunch of tumor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnthebaptist Posted January 20, 2020 Group: Non-Conformist Theology Followers: 6 Topic Count: 118 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 4,361 Content Per Day: 2.32 Reputation: 2,109 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/25/2019 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/03/1953 Share Posted January 20, 2020 6 hours ago, K9Buck said: For me, I believe it's the "first cause" argument. The available science points to the universe having a beginning. We know that nothing in the universe, including the universe itself, is capable of causing itself to come into existence. We know that everything that happens in the universe has a cause. Basic logic dictates that the universe had a cause and that the cause had to exist outside of the universe. That "first cause", of course, is our creator, otherwise known as "God". Thereafter, atheists will ask "Who made God?" The response is that something, or someone, has always existed and didn't need another to "cause" it into existence. Again, one doesn't have to be an astrophysicist to know this - it's basic logic. The committed atheist will simply say that "we just don't know" and then accuse you of using a "God of the gaps" argument. To be an atheist requires one to reject basic, unassailable logic. There are other arguments, of course, that support the existence of God, but I believe this to be the best. What are yours? On another note, Dinesh D'Souza correctly said that, in order for us to help others to find God, we need to be a little more "bilingual" with regard to being able to discuss the logical and scientific arguments for God as opposed to an argument that is biblically based, as atheists certainly don't recognize the bible as an authority on anything. He's right. God solves my problems for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neighbor Posted January 20, 2020 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 18 Topic Count: 950 Topics Per Day: 0.35 Content Count: 13,532 Content Per Day: 5.02 Reputation: 9,027 Days Won: 6 Joined: 12/04/2016 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/03/1885 Share Posted January 20, 2020 An atheist is an atheist regardless of anyone's best argument because the atheist lives by his own strong delusion. Nothing will win over an atheist except the specific call to him by the Holy Spirit; at which point the atheist is forced to face all the arguments made to date by everyone that has given any testimony of Christ at all, whether good or poor, and to respond directly to the Holy Spirit at the Spirit's call.. There is no winning argument ( No one saves another) there is only the Holy Spirit enlightening where there once was strong delusion. None the less every Christian has absolute duty and privilege to share of Christ Jesus with all the unsaved including atheists. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missmuffet Posted January 20, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 34 Topic Count: 1,990 Topics Per Day: 0.48 Content Count: 48,688 Content Per Day: 11.83 Reputation: 30,343 Days Won: 226 Joined: 01/11/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted January 20, 2020 Look around you. There has to be a intelligent designer of this world. The sun, the moon, the stars etc...etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sower Posted January 20, 2020 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 14 Topic Count: 32 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 5,243 Content Per Day: 0.97 Reputation: 5,845 Days Won: 1 Joined: 07/09/2009 Status: Offline Share Posted January 20, 2020 What is/are your best argument(s) for the existence of God? "The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God" Romans 8, 16 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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