ReneeIW Posted January 22, 2020 Group: Senior Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 42 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 944 Content Per Day: 0.54 Reputation: 780 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/06/2019 Status: Offline Author Share Posted January 22, 2020 52 minutes ago, JohnD said: Food for thought... for those of us who have not murdered anyone... Have you ever not witnessed to someone for whatever reason (scared, weary from arguing, anything)? Suppose you were their last hope of hearing the Gospel of Jesus Christ in such a way that they would seriously consider it. They died and are now in hell. Oh, but I'm as sweet as the next person... I don’t believe this at all. There’s a scripture that talks about what happens to those who did not hear the message, I believe they are judged based on how they lived according to what they knew to be right. God has mercy on them and His mercy is just, because Christ has already paid for their sin. Murder is murder and should not be compared to not witnessing to someone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReneeIW Posted January 22, 2020 Group: Senior Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 42 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 944 Content Per Day: 0.54 Reputation: 780 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/06/2019 Status: Offline Author Share Posted January 22, 2020 (edited) Double post Edited January 22, 2020 by ReneeIW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 (edited) I think given circumstances we are capable of anything at all. I cannot bear violence but - what if my mother or my dog or my husband were under immediate threat and i was able to defend them because i had a gun nearest to me? During a war maybe? What if a woman faces certain rape but has a knife to hand? Put anyone under great stress and they will be able to do whatever is necessary to survive. In our comfortable lives we would not hurt anyone. I would say i believe most people would never do appalling crimes without reason. Whereas truly evil humans may do things due to being psychopaths. Normal people never enjoy evil acts but evil people may do. So there is truth in that we are each capable of a huge amount but it would take a great deal for us to do it. As for harming children, rape, robbery - only evil people would do that. Though a desperate man may do a robbery to survive maybe. It is a big question. Edited January 22, 2020 by Melinda12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted January 22, 2020 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 0 Topic Count: 904 Topics Per Day: 0.19 Content Count: 9,642 Content Per Day: 2.03 Reputation: 5,830 Days Won: 9 Joined: 04/07/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted January 22, 2020 1 hour ago, ReneeIW said: I don’t believe this at all. There’s a scripture that talks about what happens to those who did not hear the message, I believe they are judged based on how they lived according to what they knew to be right. God has mercy on them and His mercy is just, because Christ has already paid for their sin. Murder is murder and should not be compared to not witnessing to someone. So... John 3:16-18, Ephesians 2:8-10, Romans 8... virtually the entire Bible means nothing to you? "I think" therefore it must be true. The Bible does mention lesser degrees of punishment (and reward for that matter) in both heaven and hell if that's what you are referring to. But the ones in hell are still... in hell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jostler Posted January 22, 2020 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 25 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,679 Content Per Day: 1.40 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 16 Joined: 01/19/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted January 22, 2020 3 hours ago, ReneeIW said: I agree. My concern is that Christians are teaching that thinking about killing someone is just as bad as killing them. Thinking about committing adultery is just as bad as doing it. Thinking about stealing is just as bad as doing it. That is dangerous to me. Yes it is all sin, but I believe it’s different because of the fruit. What I was trying to suggest was that he probably had lustful thoughts about other women his entire life , but only the act with Bathsheba was punished. We are going to have thoughts, but we control ourselves, for the sake of Christ and others. I think it’s unhealthy for a kid to believe that thinking about a mass shooting is just as bad as doing it.Or a person believing that thinking about driving drunk is just as bad as doing it. Or my 13 year old daughter to believe that thinking about having sex is just as bad as doing it etc. If she has already thought about it, and it’s the same as doing it in God’s eyes, why not just go do it if she’s already crossed the line in God’s eyes? I can see Satan all over these teachings if we are not careful. I think what Christ revealed to us was the difference between God and man. God would never think about doing evil. Ever. So just the fact that we would think about evil things, shows that all of our hearts are wicked and only God is holy.So we cannot think we are better than anyone else in that sense, because we all have wicked hearts. But I don’t think Christ was teaching that the thought and the act were the same. Renee i really think we're saying the same things, with slightly different emphasis. I see your concern and fully agree, without reservation. I'm emphasizing the overall spiritual root of sin and you're emphasizing the truth surrounding the bitterness of acting on it....and the FRUIT (same thing I was trying to allude to earlier but used the word "fallout") of the act, here and now most CERTAINLY is more devastating than the fruit of the thought. No, no no it's NOT ok to think, "I thought it, might as well do it" and IMO anyone who even implies that in a teaching is either careless or is trying to justify something God simply does not excuse. Anyone who plays that mind game with God is doubtless facing stern disciplinary action. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jostler Posted January 22, 2020 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 25 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,679 Content Per Day: 1.40 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 16 Joined: 01/19/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted January 22, 2020 1 hour ago, Melinda12 said: I think given circumstances we are capable of anything at all. I cannot bear violence but - what if my mother or my dog or my husband were under immediate threat and i was able to defend them because i had a gun nearest to me? During a war maybe? What if a woman faces certain rape but has a knife to hand? Put anyone under great stress and they will be able to do whatever is necessary to survive. In our comfortable lives we would not hurt anyone. I would say i believe most people would never do appalling crimes without reason. Whereas truly evil humans may do things due to being psychopaths. Normal people never enjoy evil acts but evil people may do. So there is truth in that we are each capable of a huge amount but it would take a great deal for us to do it. As for harming children, rape, robbery - only evil people would do that. Though a desperate man may do a robbery to survive maybe. It is a big question. Melinda are you aware that there is a difference between killing and murder? Sis if someone came into my home and tried to harm someone in my family, and it was in my power to stop it....and I didn't...I believe i would be accountable to God for it. How could i claim i love them if i was not willing to defend them? I'd shoot them in the face, clean up the mess and go take a nap with a clear conscience. I would take whatever action i could, at risk of my own life if necessary (I hope He'd grant me that courage). Come at my family with evil intent and my answer would be "over my dead body" and only then if i failed to take theirs first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeauJangles Posted January 23, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 44 Topic Count: 229 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 10,900 Content Per Day: 2.93 Reputation: 12,145 Days Won: 68 Joined: 02/13/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/14/1954 Share Posted January 23, 2020 17 hours ago, Melinda12 said: I think given circumstances we are capable of anything at all. I cannot bear violence but - what if my mother or my dog or my husband were under immediate threat and i was able to defend them because i had a gun nearest to me? During a war maybe? What if a woman faces certain rape but has a knife to hand? Put anyone under great stress and they will be able to do whatever is necessary to survive. In our comfortable lives we would not hurt anyone. I would say i believe most people would never do appalling crimes without reason. Whereas truly evil humans may do things due to being psychopaths. Normal people never enjoy evil acts but evil people may do. So there is truth in that we are each capable of a huge amount but it would take a great deal for us to do it. As for harming children, rape, robbery - only evil people would do that. Though a desperate man may do a robbery to survive maybe. It is a big question. Margo1945 and a very sensible response by you, @Melinda12, and I thank you for your post .. none of us knows for sure what we would do under a given set of circumstances - some of which you cite .. so, it is not only wrong but is entirely foolish, arrogant, and (I forget the word I wanted .. old age is not for sissies .. lol) to say, "Oooooohhhhhh, I would NEVER EVER ......" .. easy to say when all is on our side .. so, thanks, again, for your sensible insight BeauJangles Agreed. This is a totally different situation completely. Having experienced being a victim of horrendous violent crime, I can attest that if given the chance to save my life in this manner why wouldn't I effectively protect myself? In fact, if a weapon had been in my possession at the time I was viciously attacked, it most likely wouldn't have occurred in the first place. And I'm a very peace loving person. I always have been. But there has to be sensible limitations to that, of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BibleStudent100 Posted January 23, 2020 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 11 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 407 Content Per Day: 0.20 Reputation: 345 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/01/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted January 23, 2020 On 1/20/2020 at 10:35 AM, ReneeIW said: I was listening to a sermon early this morning and the pastor said that we are all capable of committing the same heinous and violent acts as serial killers and others if given the right circumstances, and that only a self-righteous person believes otherwise. Hi Reneel: My first reaction is that that is a bizarre comment to make during a sermon; it seems unusually provocative. There are only so few minutes for a sermon so why get bogged down, even for brief moments, with such negative things? From the stage, we could go on and on about how bad world conditions are, but why not focus on whatever is upbuilding and true, in vein with this text in Philippians 4:8, 9: 8 Finally, brothers, whatever things are true, whatever things are of serious concern, whatever things are righteous, whatever things are chaste, whatever things are lovable, whatever things are well spoken of, whatever virtue there is and whatever praiseworthy thing there is, continue considering these things. 9 The things that YOU learned as well as accepted and heard and saw in connection with me, practice these; and the God of peace will be with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firm Foundation Posted January 23, 2020 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 4 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,280 Content Per Day: 1.24 Reputation: 854 Days Won: 2 Joined: 03/31/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted January 23, 2020 On 1/20/2020 at 1:35 PM, ReneeIW said: I was listening to a sermon early this morning and the pastor said that we are all capable of committing the same heinous and violent acts as serial killers and others if given the right circumstances, and that only a self-righteous person believes otherwise. I’ve heard this statement many times over the years and used to believe it, but now I do not. While we are all born with a sinful nature, it takes a certain type of personality to commit certain crimes. I can say unequivocally that I would not murder thirty people and hide them in my basement as one serial killer did. All glory goes to God for keeping me from those acts, but I don’t think it’s self righteous to say I am not capable of certain acts. I’m simply acknowledging that by the grace of God, I am not capable of doing certain things. I agree with you 100 percent. Those are not lines most people would cross. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blood Bought 1953 Posted January 24, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 13 Topic Count: 48 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 6,726 Content Per Day: 2.89 Reputation: 6,258 Days Won: 5 Joined: 12/03/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted January 24, 2020 You lust, and have not: you MURDER and desire to have, and cannot obtain: you fight and war, yet you have not, because you ask not. James was talking to Believers when he accused them of Murder.Shocking, But it appears to be in the realm of possibility of Christian behavior.......Grace sure seems unfair , but like it or not, “ where sin abounds , Grace abounds that much more.” That works out well for the rest of us too. If you have ever hated somebody , you are no better than a murderer in God’s eyes.We should be thankful that God extends Grace to those we would rather “ not” extend it to. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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