The timing of the rapture

[dhchristian]

2 hours ago, Dennis1209 said:

But what does any of that have to do with the shortening of literal 24 hour days of the tribulation, or any part or portion of the tribulation?

Consider this for shortened days.

And the fourth angel sounded, and the third part of the sun was smitten, and the third part of the moon, and the third part of the stars; so as the third part of them was darkened, and the day shone not for a third part of it, and the night likewise. Rev. 8:12

With all the catastrophic events in the earlier trumpets, Perhaps the spin of the earth will be increased, and instead of  a 24 hour day we have 16 hour day. One third of the day and one third of the night being removed????

 

[HAZARD]

16 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

Here is what Paul said concerning our gathering back to Christ.  Seems once wasn't enough so he repeated it.  Seems twice wasn't enough so he went for a 3rd time just to be clear, crystal clear and absolutely clear.  

2 Thessalonians 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

2 That ye be not soonn shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

3 Let no man deceive you by any means for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;  (THATS ONCE)

4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming (THATS TWICE)

9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. (THATS THREE TIMES, WITH AN EXPLANATION OF WHY THEY WILL PERISH)

11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie

12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

16 Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God, even our Father, which hath loved us, and hath given us everlasting consolation and g2Thessalonians d hope through grace,

17 Comfort your hearts, and stablish you in every goodd word and work.

There is NO way Paul would have ever written these statements if there was not an "any moment now" doctrine starting back then and you can bet that delusion came upon them JUST SO Gods Word would CONTAIN the Truth for us.  Doesn't Eze 13 just give you great pause???  It is like it was written exactly about this pre fly away.  

A couple of verses does not a doctrine make.  Did they teach a pre trib rapture?  No, if they did it would be clear as day to everyone.  And how does one justify TELLING GOD what HE NEEDS to do for the accounted worthy "to escape"?  Did He rapture Lot?  Did He rapture Noah?  Did He rapture Shad, Mesh and Abed???  NOPE.  Did any of them suffer of anyones Wrath??  Stayed right here on earth and made it fine.  Have you ever checked out who He did rapture??  You believe the "churches" of today stand in comparison to them???  Have you read what Jesus thinks of those churches you claim are to be His bride?  

 

The rapsure of the church is NEVER confused with the second coming because THE SECOND COMING is the NEXT TIME He is coming.  Do you know that Jesus NEVER SPOKE A WORD, NOT a word of it as in not one single solitary word.    When He spoke of "RETURNING" it was never a half way deal.  He is returning as King of kings and Lord of Lords for the DAY of Vengeance.  Have you EVER considered what this doctrine does to take AWAY from the glory of the 2nd Advent of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ???

 

Have you rightly divided the Word here?  What is the subject Paul is speaking to?  Where the dead are.  So lets take a look together to see if we are being told about what is going on with our loved ones who have passed away or a "pre trib raptsure". 

1 Thessalonians 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. 
(Paul gonna explain about those who have died)

1 Thessalonians 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
(Paul tells us they are coming back when He returns)

1 Thessalonians 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
(Paul saying that when Christ returns there will be those who are still "ALIVE", not dead, and they will not preceed those who have died as in God is the God of the living and not the dead)

1 Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God and the dead in Christ shall rise first
(Paul describing what Christs return will sound like, when it will be, and how the dead will rise first, (I got a lot more here, but not for now))

1 Thessalonians 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
(Paul explaining how those who are alive will be caught up to meet the Lord in the air, the change of earthly to heavenly bodies as in  1 Corinth 15)

1 Thessalonians 4:18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
(Paul explaining to COMFORT one another with these words CONCERNING WHERE THERE LOVED ONES WHO HAVE DIED ARE AND WHEN THEY ARE RETURNING.  Notice there is NOTHING to do with Satan here.  There is nothing to do with any time OTHER than WHEN Christ RETURNS.  Nothing about the tribulation.  Just explanation on the dead.  But WAIT, there is more to follow.  What are we told??

1 Thessalonians 5:1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
(NOW Paul is going to bring up the WHEN they will return)

1 Thessalonians 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
(Paul telling them that THEY KNOW the Lord is coming IN THE NIGHT.  What does the NIGHT signify?  Who is of the light?  Who is of the dark?  Day good, Night bad.  IF THE LORD IS COMING AS A THIEF IN THE NIGHT, then SATAN is already here)

1 Thessalonians 5:3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
(Paul telling what will be being "said" when Christ returns with their loved ones who have died.  Peace and safety.  Who will be selling a FAKE DOCTRINE of Peace and safety???  That would be Satan)

1 Thessalonians 5:4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
(Paul telling them or US that that day DOESN'T OVERTAKE THE CHILDREN OF LIGHT AS A THIEF.  Why?  because we have the knowledge of God under our belt so we know the order of events, we know Gods Plan.  We are expecting him and we know exactly when Christ will return in the way that we know the events that proceed His return and we know NOT to take his mark, which we would have to be here for)

1 Thessalonians 5:5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.

1 Thessalonians 5:6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.

1 Thessalonians 5:7 For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.
(Paul referencing the "fallen angels, like in the day of Noah, who will be doing as they did before, so we KNOW the war in heaven has ended and they have been kicked to earth)

1 Thessalonians 5:8 But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.
(Paul back to telling us to put on the gospel armor, not for flight to the heaven which INCIDENTALLY  is standing in SILENCE for a half hour, though according to you there is a wedding taking place) 

1 Thessalonians 5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
(Paul straight up telling us we are not appointed to wrath, SO DON'T WORRY about the wrath REMEMBER God is in control.  There is not a sparrow that falls to the ground that God is not aware of)

1 Thessalonians 5:10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.

1 Thessalonians 5:11 Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do.


At least as far as I have studied it.  BUT if you have actual scripture, in context, I am more than willing to peruse it.  

Oh, and Satans wrath?  He wants Gods children to turn to him, he wants to steal them from God.  He wants to be God.  So he has to ACT like God would.  Not like some devil with a pitch fork.  

And  I still have not a clue of when that hour will be.  But once I see Satan fall to the earth, I will be able to start pinning it down,  but up until the exact moment he kills the two witnesses, I will not know, just like the bible says.  

The antichrist kills the two witnesses, not Satan.

 

[DeighAnn]

40 minutes ago, HAZARD said:

The antichrist kills the two witnesses, not Satan.

 

I must disagree.  I believe the conflict is between God and Satan,  and all "roles" played are directly under his authority.  He has many names but there is only one "BEING" who God made the full pattern, who protected the Mercy Seat.   There is only one in which iniquity was first found.  There is only one who is called  their "father".   Only one abomination of desolation standing where he ought naught... The serpent in the garden, the Anti Christ, the beast, so many more

Revelation 11:7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

2Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

 Revelation 9:11 And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.

The deceiver

[HAZARD]

54 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

I must disagree.  I believe the conflict is between God and Satan,  and all "roles" played are directly under his authority.  He has many names but there is only one "BEING" who God made the full pattern, who protected the Mercy Seat.   There is only one in which iniquity was first found.  There is only one who is called  their "father".   Only one abomination of desolation standing where he ought naught... The serpent in the garden, the Anti Christ, the beast, so many more

Revelation 11:7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

2Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

 Revelation 9:11 And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.

The deceiver

Sorry. The Antichrist will be a future Mortal man, nothing more. That he will be a mortal man is clear from (Rev. 13:18). That he will be a mortal man is also clear from the fact that he will be "SLAIN" by Christ at His second advent (Dan. 7:11; Isa. 11:4; 2 Thess. 2:7-8).

If Christ is going to slay him at the second advent, then he must be a mortal man at that time. This proves that he will not be a resurrected immortal man from the dead, or indwelt by Satan. 

Edited January 22, 2020 by HAZARD

[Last Daze]

2 hours ago, dhchristian said:

Consider this for shortened days.

And the fourth angel sounded, and the third part of the sun was smitten, and the third part of the moon, and the third part of the stars; so as the third part of them was darkened, and the day shone not for a third part of it, and the night likewise. Rev. 8:12

With all the catastrophic events in the earlier trumpets, Perhaps the spin of the earth will be increased, and instead of  a 24 hour day we have 16 hour day. One third of the day and one third of the night being removed????

 

That sure would make it hard to know the day or hour.

[Jostler]

I think it's helpful to think of the dragon, the beast and the false prophet as a twisted parody of the Trinity.  Three unique "persons" manifest as one.  Satan's deceptive mockery is a lie, but it is intended to "demonstrate" his "godhood", which he coveted from the beginning.

Satan, son of satan and lying miracle power manifest through a parody of the Holy Spirit...the false prophet.

There are physical and spiritual angles involved.....

[HAZARD]

1 hour ago, Sonshine said:

Yes.  Satan and Antichrist are one and the same.  Satan’s title of “the Antichrist” (which means instead of Christ) is during the last 5 months when he is on the earth in person. Satan has many names and titles and roles:

Revelation 20 King James Version (KJV)

20 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

² And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

³ And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

No they are not. Satan gives power to the antichrist, who is the beast, Rev. 13:4. 

The Antichrist will be a future Mortal man, nothing more. That he will be a mortal man is clear from (Rev. 13:18). That he will be a mortal man is also clear from the fact that he will be "SLAIN" by Christ at His second advent (Dan. 7:11; Isa. 11:4; 2 Thess. 2:7-8).

If Christ is going to slay him at the second advent, then he must be a mortal man at that time. This proves that he will not be a resurrected immortal man from the dead, or indwelt by Satan. 

Rev. 13:18, Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number OF A MAN; and HIS number is Six hundred threescore and six. 

Dan. 7: 11, I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the BEAST WAS SLAINM and HIS body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.

 

[HAZARD]

1 hour ago, Sonshine said:

Yes.  Satan and Antichrist are one and the same.  Satan’s title of “the Antichrist” (which means instead of Christ) is during the last 5 months when he is on the earth in person. Satan has many names and titles and roles:

Revelation 20 King James Version (KJV)

20 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

² And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

³ And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

No they are not. Satan gives power to the antichrist, who is the beast, Rev. 13:4. 

The Antichrist will be a future Mortal man, nothing more. That he will be a mortal man is clear from (Rev. 13:18). That he will be a mortal man is also clear from the fact that he will be "SLAIN" by Christ at His second advent (Dan. 7:11; Isa. 11:4; 2 Thess. 2:7-8).

If Christ is going to slay him at the second advent, then he must be a mortal man at that time. This proves that he will not be a resurrected immortal man from the dead, or indwelt by Satan. 

Rev. 13:18, Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number OF A MAN; and HIS number is Six hundred threescore and six. 

Dan. 7: 11, I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the BEAST WAS SLAIN and HIS body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.

 

[HAZARD]

1 hour ago, Sonshine said:

Yes.  Satan and Antichrist are one and the same.  Satan’s title of “the Antichrist” (which means instead of Christ) is during the last 5 months when he is on the earth in person. Satan has many names and titles and roles:

Revelation 20 King James Version (KJV)

20 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

² And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

³ And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

No they are not. Satan gives power to the antichrist, who is the beast, Rev. 13:4. 

The Antichrist will be a future Mortal man, nothing more. That he will be a mortal man is clear from (Rev. 13:18). That he will be a mortal man is also clear from the fact that he will be "SLAIN" by Christ at His second advent (Dan. 7:11; Isa. 11:4; 2 Thess. 2:7-8).

If Christ is going to slay him at the second advent, then he must be a mortal man at that time. This proves that he will not be a resurrected immortal man from the dead, or indwelt by Satan. 

Rev. 13:18, Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number OF A MAN; and HIS number is Six hundred threescore and six. 

Dan. 7: 11, I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the BEAST WAS SLAIN and HIS body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.

 

[HAZARD]

1 hour ago, Sonshine said:

Yes.  Satan and Antichrist are one and the same.  Satan’s title of “the Antichrist” (which means instead of Christ) is during the last 5 months when he is on the earth in person. Satan has many names and titles and roles:

Revelation 20 King James Version (KJV)

20 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

² And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

³ And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

No they are not. Satan gives power to the antichrist, who is the beast, Rev. 13:4. 

The Antichrist will be a future Mortal man, nothing more. That he will be a mortal man is clear from (Rev. 13:18). That he will be a mortal man is also clear from the fact that he will be "SLAIN" by Christ at His second advent (Dan. 7:11; Isa. 11:4; 2 Thess. 2:7-8).

If Christ is going to slay him at the second advent, then he must be a mortal man at that time. This proves that he will not be a resurrected immortal man from the dead, or indwelt by Satan. 

Rev. 13:18, Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number OF A MAN; and HIS number is Six hundred threescore and six. 

Dan. 7: 11, I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the BEAST WAS SLAIN and HIS body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.