mel85 Posted January 22, 2020 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 19 Topic Count: 1,423 Topics Per Day: 0.60 Content Count: 1,849 Content Per Day: 0.77 Reputation: 1,469 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/01/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted January 22, 2020 Matthew 6:9-13 King James Version (KJV) 9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. 10 Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven. 11 Give us this day our daily bread. 12 And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors. 13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen. 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted January 22, 2020 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 0 Topic Count: 904 Topics Per Day: 0.19 Content Count: 9,642 Content Per Day: 2.03 Reputation: 5,828 Days Won: 9 Joined: 04/07/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted January 22, 2020 (edited) The traditional "Lord's Prayer" is actually the disciples' prayer. The disciples of Jesus asked Jesus to teach them to pray like John (the Baptist) taught his disciples to pray. The disciples' prayer is actually an Old Testament prayer. Followed up in one rendition with "for if you do not forgive others, your Father will not forgive you." Not Grace at all. Grace is John 3:16-18 and Ephesians 2:8-10. The true Lord's prayer is John 17. John 17 (NKJV) 1 Jesus spoke these words, lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said: “Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You, 2 as You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He should give eternal life to as many as You have given Him. 3 And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. 4 I have glorified You on the earth. I have finished the work which You have given Me to do. 5 And now, O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was. 6 “I have manifested Your name to the men whom You have given Me out of the world. They were Yours, You gave them to Me, and they have kept Your word. 7 Now they have known that all things which You have given Me are from You. 8 For I have given to them the words which You have given Me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came forth from You; and they have believed that You sent Me. 9 “I pray for them. I do not pray for the world but for those whom You have given Me, for they are Yours. 10 And all Mine are Yours, and Yours are Mine, and I am glorified in them. 11 Now I am no longer in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to You. Holy Father, keep through Your name those whom You have given Me, that they may be one as We are. 12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in Your name. Those whom You gave Me I have kept; and none of them is lost except the son of perdition, that the Scripture might be fulfilled. 13 But now I come to You, and these things I speak in the world, that they may have My joy fulfilled in themselves. 14 I have given them Your word; and the world has hated them because they are not of the world, just as I am not of the world. 15 I do not pray that You should take them out of the world, but that You should keep them from the evil one. 16 They are not of the world, just as I am not of the world. 17 Sanctify them by Your truth. Your word is truth. 18 As You sent Me into the world, I also have sent them into the world. 19 And for their sakes I sanctify Myself, that they also may be sanctified by the truth. 20 “I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will believe in Me through their word; 21 that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me. 22 And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one: 23 I in them, and You in Me; that they may be made perfect in one, and that the world may know that You have sent Me, and have loved them as You have loved Me. 24 “Father, I desire that they also whom You gave Me may be with Me where I am, that they may behold My glory which You have given Me; for You loved Me before the foundation of the world. 25 O righteous Father! The world has not known You, but I have known You; and these have known that You sent Me. 26 And I have declared to them Your name, and will declare it, that the love with which You loved Me may be in them, and I in them.” Edited January 22, 2020 by JohnD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve morrow Posted January 22, 2020 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 1,039 Content Per Day: 0.62 Reputation: 358 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/15/2019 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/07/1955 Share Posted January 22, 2020 not grace at all ?? TITUS 2:11 for the grace of GOD that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men --2:12--teaching us--that denying --UNGODLINESS-- and worldly lusts we should live soberly righteously and godly in this present world 1 TIMOTHY 6:3 if any man teach otherwise and consent not to wholesome words even ---the words of our LORD JESUS CHRIST--- and to the doctrine which is according to ---GODLINESS--- TITUS 1:1 paul a servant of GOD and an apostle of JESUS CHRIST according to the faith of GODS elect and the acknowledging --of the truth--which is after --GODLINESS-- 2 PETER 1 :3 according as HIS divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and --GODLINESS--through the knowledge of HIM that hath called us to glory and virtue MATTHEW 18:32 then his lord after that he had called said unto him o thou wicked servant I forgave thee all that debt because thou desiredst me --18:34--shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellowservant even as I had pity on you --18:35--and his lord was wroth and delivered him to the tormentors till he should pay all that was due unto him *******19:35-- so likewise shall MY HEAVENLY FATHER do also unto you if you from your hearts forgive not everyone his brother their trespasses******* LOVING THE LORD JESUS CHRIST 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted January 22, 2020 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 0 Topic Count: 904 Topics Per Day: 0.19 Content Count: 9,642 Content Per Day: 2.03 Reputation: 5,828 Days Won: 9 Joined: 04/07/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted January 22, 2020 2 hours ago, steve morrow said: not grace at all ?? TITUS 2:11 for the grace of GOD that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men --2:12--teaching us--that denying --UNGODLINESS-- and worldly lusts we should live soberly righteously and godly in this present world 1 TIMOTHY 6:3 if any man teach otherwise and consent not to wholesome words even ---the words of our LORD JESUS CHRIST--- and to the doctrine which is according to ---GODLINESS--- TITUS 1:1 paul a servant of GOD and an apostle of JESUS CHRIST according to the faith of GODS elect and the acknowledging --of the truth--which is after --GODLINESS-- 2 PETER 1 :3 according as HIS divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and --GODLINESS--through the knowledge of HIM that hath called us to glory and virtue MATTHEW 18:32 then his lord after that he had called said unto him o thou wicked servant I forgave thee all that debt because thou desiredst me --18:34--shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellowservant even as I had pity on you --18:35--and his lord was wroth and delivered him to the tormentors till he should pay all that was due unto him *******19:35-- so likewise shall MY HEAVENLY FATHER do also unto you if you from your hearts forgive not everyone his brother their trespasses******* LOVING THE LORD JESUS CHRIST Grace is found everywhere in scripture. Even prophetically in the disciples' prayer (as in most of the Old Testament). It was not taught / uttered under the Grace of the New Covenant (Testament) because it hadn't happened yet. Hebrews 9:16–17 (AV) 16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. 17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth. Christ was not even on the cross until much later. And again... as I said in my post above the language of the prayer itself and Jesus' own commentary in Matthew 6:14-15 and Mark 11:26 which is under Old Testament Law not New Testament Grace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis1209 Posted January 22, 2020 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 17 Topic Count: 347 Topics Per Day: 0.13 Content Count: 7,445 Content Per Day: 2.70 Reputation: 5,363 Days Won: 1 Joined: 09/27/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted January 22, 2020 13 hours ago, mel85 said: Matthew 6:9-13 King James Version (KJV) 9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. 10 Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven. 11 Give us this day our daily bread. 12 And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors. 13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen. I believe this is a model, a template if you will, on the structure of how we should pray; not to recite this repetitively word for word over and over again. There's a lot of information packed into this example prayer; for instance, what kingdom are we praying for? There are eight kingdoms listed in our Bible. 1. The kingdom of God. 2. Satan's kingdom. 3. Gentile kingdoms. 4. The Jewish Kingdom. 5. The kingdom of heaven. 6. Antichrist's kingdom. 7. Christ's kingdom, is the kingdom of God and the kingdom of heaven, with Christ as the visible head. 8. The Father's kingdom. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missmuffet Posted January 22, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 34 Topic Count: 1,990 Topics Per Day: 0.48 Content Count: 48,688 Content Per Day: 11.83 Reputation: 30,343 Days Won: 226 Joined: 01/11/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted January 22, 2020 15 hours ago, mel85 said: Matthew 6:9-13 King James Version (KJV) 9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. 10 Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven. 11 Give us this day our daily bread. 12 And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors. 13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen. Do you have a question or a concern about this prayer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mel85 Posted January 23, 2020 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 19 Topic Count: 1,423 Topics Per Day: 0.60 Content Count: 1,849 Content Per Day: 0.77 Reputation: 1,469 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/01/2017 Status: Offline Author Share Posted January 23, 2020 6 hours ago, missmuffet said: Do you have a question or a concern about this prayer? No thanks missmuffet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve morrow Posted January 24, 2020 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 1,039 Content Per Day: 0.62 Reputation: 358 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/15/2019 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/07/1955 Share Posted January 24, 2020 @ john d and all why so many of your words--has not GOD defined GRACE --- does HE not teach grace --- is GOD not sufficient for you--- did not CHRIST teach/command the prayer in question --- MATTHEW 6:9 AFTER THIS MANNER THEREFORE PRAY YOU---OUR FATHER---WHICH ART IN HEAVEN HALLOWED BE THY NAME AGAIN--- TITUS 2:11 for the grace of GOD that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men --2:12-- TEACHING US --that denying ungodliness and worldly lusts we should live SOBERLY--RIGHTEOUSLY--AND GODLY-- IN THIS PRESENT LIFE 1 CORINTHIANS 3:10 according to the grace of GOD which is given unto me as a wise masterbuilder I have laid the foundation and another buildeth thereon but let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon JOHN 1:17 for the law was given by moses but grace and truth came by JESUS CHRIST 2 CORINTHIANS 12:9 and HE said unto me --MY GRACE--IS SUFFICIENT--for thee for MY strength is made perfect in weakness most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities that the power of CHRIST may rest upon me GALATIANS 1:11 but I certify you brethren that the gospel which was preached of me --- IS NOT AFTER MAN --- 1:12-- for I neither received it --OF MAN--neither was I taught it but by the revelation of JESUS CHRIST PSALM 127:1 except THE LORD build the house ---THEY LABOR IN VAIN THAT BUILD IT---except THE LORD keep the city the watchman waketh but in vain *******ACTS 20:32 and now brethren I commend you to GOD and to the word of --HIS GRACE--which is able to build you up and to give you an inheritance among all them which are sanctified******* 1 PETER 1:25 BUT THE WORD OF THE LORD ENDURETH FOREVER --- AND THIS IS THE WORD WHICH BY THE GOSPEL IS PREACHED UNTO YOU ACTS 20:24 but none of these things move me neither count I my life dear unto myself so that I might finish my course with joy and the --- MINISTRY ---WHICH I HAVE RECEIVED OF THE LORD JESUS ---to testify the gospel of --- THE GRACE OF GOD--- LOVING THE LORD JESUS CHRIST Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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