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Marriage and government


Guest K9Buck

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22 minutes ago, missmuffet said:

This is what you said

"If two guys want to get married within their private organization and then announce that they're "married", that's ok with me.  If six women and three guys want to get married within their organization, that's ok with me too.  Live and let live.  Who am I to dictate to them as to whether or not they can be married?  It doesn't affect me in the least."  

That is not the thoughts of a Christian.

Those are the thoughts of a Christian that is willing to allow non-believers to engage in their free will just as God allows you and I to engage in our free will.  I don't support turning the U.S. into a totalitarian, "Christian" theocracy.  

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26 minutes ago, ayin jade said:

The bible says to abide by the laws of the land unless it conflicts with the Lord. Currently laws are being forced on us to conflict with the Lord. So it is not wrong for us to want to have laws that honor the Lord like no gay marriage, something that was not permitted in this country until recently.

Yes, we as Christians are commanded to obey God's laws.  Where in the bible were we commanded to force non-believers to obey God's laws?  

And just a reminder, I'm advocating for getting government OUT of the marriage process.  So, I'm not advocating for "honoring" gay marriage.  

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7 hours ago, K9Buck said:

I believe that the U.S. was founded on the principle of freedom, particularly freedom from the state.  Remember, the original settlers came to America so that they could worship as they saw fit - and they did.  

Why should others be denied the right to live their life as they see fit, so long as it doesn't adversely affect a third party?  A gay couple getting married doesn't affect you nor I.  So why should we have a say in whether or not they can be married?  Why shouldn't they have the "free will" to be married?  Because you disapprove?  

Because of antidescrimination laws.  They are stepping on my rights in forcing me to recognize gay marriage when it comes to hiring and benefits.  We have seen the lawsuits regarding a wedding photographer and a  baker.  If we were truly free, there would be no antidescrimination laws of any kind, so as long as they remain, I will oppose gay marriage.

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5 hours ago, ayin jade said:

Common law marriages happen when a couple have been cohabiting for a number of years. So that starts out as a sin and ends up having government intervention to declare it a marriage. 

Being married without a license can cause issues with inheritance, legal responsibilities, and the rights of either partner regarding children etc. 

That is true, but you do have couples that make a marriage commitment without a license because they see no need for one.  That is not fornication, and later they are considered married by common law.  

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1 hour ago, Firm Foundation said:

Because of antidescrimination laws.  They are stepping on my rights in forcing me to recognize gay marriage when it comes to hiring and benefits.  We have seen the lawsuits regarding a wedding photographer and a  baker.  If we were truly free, there would be no antidescrimination laws of any kind, so as long as they remain, I will oppose gay marriage.

 

Yea, militant gays have harmed their movement with their ridiculous lawsuits.  I agree that free people should be free to discriminate for any or no reason at all.  Discrimination laws are contrary to the principle of freedom and, frankly, they cause more problems than they solve.

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1 hour ago, Sonshine said:

@K9Buck  Please consider …. Our Father in heaven uses Christians to give light to their fellowman.  We are the light of the world!  We should care about each other, and we should especially care about those who do not know Christ.  Many who do not know the Lord will see our sincerity when we witness to them, “Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and be saved.”  We are called to plant seeds.  Our Creator has chosen those who will believe to be His ambassadors for Christ.  It can never be “live and let live.”  Whoever believes in Jesus will live; whoever will not believe will be lost. 

2 Corinthians 5:20 King James Version (KJV)

20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.

Matthew 5:14-16 King James Version (KJV)

14 Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.

15 Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house.

16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

 

Nice post.  

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6 hours ago, K9Buck said:

Remember that Jesus admonished about "casting pearls to swine" and "let the dead bury their dead"?  Jesus was apparently content to permit non-believers to reject him, his teachings and to go on with their lives.  Jesus never advocated for using government to force them to live a life consistent with his teachings.  

I certainly AGREE with following Jesus' teachings, but that doesn't mean that I should have the power to force others to also follow his teachings, at least with regard to things that don't affect me.   

 

In answer to your reply K9Buck, nowhere in the gospels does Jesus force anything on anyone, He merely opened people's minds and eyes to another perspective on life. There are God's laws which He advocated we should live by, in order that we might live, free from guilt and shame that sin brings. It is entirely over to the individual as to whether they take heed, or follow their own heart, and thereby accept the consequences of their decision. But for you, as a christian, to advocate that it's okay for people to live in obvious sin, going against the natural law of human nature, as God ordained we should live, made me ask the question, "why would you make that statement." Regardless of any government intervention, that is not the issue here, surely you see God's higher rule. Yes, governments make laws, and they make many foolish decisions, but at the final day, we will all have to give an account of how we've lived, just saying, God bless.

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5 minutes ago, Heybro said:

In answer to your reply K9Buck, nowhere in the gospels does Jesus force anything on anyone, He merely opened people's minds and eyes to another perspective on life. There are God's laws which He advocated we should live by, in order that we might live, free from guilt and shame that sin brings. It is entirely over to the individual as to whether they take heed, or follow their own heart, and thereby accept the consequences of their decision. But for you, as a christian, to advocate that it's okay for people to live in obvious sin, going against the natural law of human nature, as God ordained we should live, made me ask the question, "why would you make that statement." Regardless of any government intervention, that is not the issue here, surely you see God's higher rule. Yes, governments make laws, and they make many foolish decisions, but at the final day, we will all have to give an account of how we've lived, just saying, God bless.

My brother, I never said that "It's ok".  I've simply advocated against basing societal laws on religious doctrine.  That's a big difference. 

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1 hour ago, PromisesPromises! said:

"Third parties" are affected.  Children are often adopted and raised by same-sex couples.  Ask any teacher if the living arrangements affect these children.  Even the teacher is affected when a confused 9 year old "Mark" wants to wear a dress and be called "Julie," and the teacher is forced to accept that choice and refer to him as a girl.  When governmental legislation ignores God's authority, chaos reigns instead of order and peace.  We all become affected third parties. 

Those are separate issues from what I'm addressing. 

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15 hours ago, K9Buck said:

It's my view that the government should NOT be in the marriage business.  In my view, people should get "married" within their own, private organization and then they can tell whoever they like that they're "married".  I'm NOT saying that government shouldn't recognize marriage; I'm simply saying that government should NOT be in the business of issuing marriage licenses and actually marrying people.  

I know this will never happen because a majority of people apparently want government running everything under the sun, but it would resolve a lot of issues.  

If two guys want to get married within their private organization and then announce that they're "married", that's ok with me.  If six women and three guys want to get married within their organization, that's ok with me too.  Live and let live.  Who am I to dictate to them as to whether or not they can be married?  It doesn't affect me in the least.  

What are your thoughts?

 

So....what I am about to say is going to sound really weird.  With that said I am not in anyway saying that this is alright to do in the eyes of God.  But this is what I think could be the reason for the need to have the gov. say in marriages. Again people, I am not saying this is okay to do. So no need to show me the "errors of my ways". Okay so here we go...     There is the issue of who is next of kin when it comes to medical issues. This would be a person's legal spouse most likely.  Who is to be held responsible for care of the children.  Who has rights to the property. There needs to be a record of these things and that is where the government paper work steps in and says "okay you and you are married so you have these rights. It says right here on this paper that you and you are married so you have the right to this and the right to that. Other wise someone could have say 5 wives but not want to care for wive number 3 and simply claim that they are not married to wife number 3, and since there is no paper gov. issue record to show that then wife number 3 has no recourse. And then there is taxes. Someone could claim on their taxes that they are married to so and so. But again if there is no gov. issue record of this to show prove. Anyone could take anyone and say they are married so they could get a tax reduction. So that is why I think the government makes marriage their business. It is all about who has rights to what. And marriage brings with it certain rights. 

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