forgiveness.

[cha cha]

I was just wondering if anyone knows the answer to this, if someone offends us and doesn't care we still have to forgive them yes? but if we don't truly repent to God he won't forgive us.  how does that work?

[Tzephanyahu]

Shalom Cha Cha,

1 hour ago, cha cha said:

if someone offends us and doesn't care we still have to forgive them yes?

Hopefully I can help you with this, Yahweh willing.

If the offender repents then you should absolutely forgive them - no questions asked. 

If the offender doesn't repent then, technically, you don't HAVE to forgive them and you can hold it to their charge.  However, I would strongly recommend against this!

Look at it this way...

If you hold a charge against another person then, when all things are judged, your complaint would come up before the Great Judge.  If your complaint stands up and you still want to press charges- the Judge will deal with it. 

But how scary that may be for the offender! And it will be because of YOUR submission of this case.  That's not all though...

At the same time He will examine you, the accuser, to see if there is hypocrisy found in you and whether you have judged righteously.  So how confident are you on how you judge! 

Therefore, it's better to have mercy and forgive - for the sake of the offender and the sake of yourself - even if we're wronged.  

After all, we have wronged God and many people with our attitude and behaviours.  If Yahweh can forgive us all these things, even the things we've forgotten about and therefore not repented of, how can fairly hold a charge against another?

With this is mind, consider the Parable of Wicked Servant  in Matthew 18:21-35

1 hour ago, cha cha said:

but if we don't truly repent to God he won't forgive us.  how does that work?

Unlike when we judge people and cases, Yahweh is perfect in His assessments.  When He judges, it is right.  Any accusation brought and held against Him will be found to be folly on Judgement Day.

The repentance that we need towards the Father is not just to simply say "Sorry I upset you or wronged you", as we may say to a fellow man.  Our sins separate and put distance between us and God.  So when we repent of them, it's more than just apologising - but it's also to draw closer to Him.

Why is this though? 

Yahweh is a God of Justice.  He has to run everything in existence by laws, whether it's the laws of physics, time or judicial laws.  For all life to exist in good order and not descend into chaos, He must maintain justice and righteous ruling.  Therefore, if you break his laws, you have sinned, and you have a lawsuit against you as a transgressor.

However, Yahweh is also a God of Mercy.  His heart is to save us and to be with us.  But in order to pardon you, He needs your "lawsuit" settled (in Messiah's sacrifice) and your repentance  - for what good is the Messiah to you if you say "What I'm doing is fine and I'll do it again!"  In the same way, as much would be expected in our own human court of law if an offender is let off the hook. 

But Yahweh also has Mercy on the wicked - those who may yet change.  Towards those who are ignorant, even through their reviling and wickedness.  Probably because "they know not what they do".  Just as He was merciful to you and I before we found Him - for He didn't strike us down or blind our hearts. HalleluYah. 

So, we ought to be patient, long-suffering, merciful and forgiving as our heavenly Father - if we want to try to perfect like Him. 

Sound too difficult?  Well, you can make a good start by forgiving those who wrong you but don't apologise.  You'll be more like Him once you can start doing this, hard as it can be

Love & Shalom

Edited January 28, 2020 by Tzephanyahu

[Billiards Ball]

1 hour ago, cha cha said:

I was just wondering if anyone knows the answer to this, if someone offends us and doesn't care we still have to forgive them yes? but if we don't truly repent to God he won't forgive us.  how does that work?

Jesus said forgive a person who sins against you 490 times. Repentance on their part is never mentioned.

[lovethelord]

Hi cha cha,

I believe God wants us to forgive everyone. Even those who don't care or even realize they did anything to require forgiveness. I look to Jesus who gave me the example:

• Luke 23:34, "Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they do."

[johnthebaptist]

8 hours ago, cha cha said:

I was just wondering if anyone knows the answer to this, if someone offends us and doesn't care we still have to forgive them yes? but if we don't truly repent to God he won't forgive us.  how does that work?

The way I look at it, if someone comes up to my front door every day, knocks, and kicks me in the shin when I open the door, I will forgive him as soon as he stops kicking me in the shin. 

As for repentance, sin brings trouble into our lives. The cure is repentance.

[LonerAndy]

10 hours ago, cha cha said:

I was just wondering if anyone knows the answer to this, if someone offends us and doesn't care we still have to forgive them yes? but if we don't truly repent to God he won't forgive us.  how does that work?

So the first thing is, don't be offended.  Isn't that a great answer?    Of course not.  It's a horrible answer, that drives us human beings insane.  I'm guilty too.  But I have learned that this horrible answer really is the best answer.

Proverbs 19:11

"A person's wisdom yields patience; it is to one's glory to overlook an offense."

It is not fun, nor is it easy, and it goes against everything we feel inside....

But a Christian should be the most difficult person on this Earth to offend. 

Now about forgiveness, the Lord's Prayer in Matt 6:9 says this:

Our Father who is in heaven, uphold the holiness of your name. Bring in your kingdom so that your will is done on earth as it’s done in heaven. Give us the bread we need for today. Forgive us for the ways we have wronged you, just as we also forgive those who have wronged us. And don’t lead us into temptation, but rescue us from the evil one.

So as you can see, there is no "we also forgive those who have wronged us.... unless they don't care".   For a Christian forgiveness just means to forgive.

Forgiveness does not mean you go to the person and say "I forgive your evil, horrible, inconsiderate actions that are of the devil and reflect badly on your parents and family....." and on and on.

Forgiveness does not even require you to see the other person.  It simply requires that you release that person from their guilt against you.   Jesus died for everyone, even those who hated him.  Jesus died for Paul who was going around murdering Christians.    Forgiveness is an act that you alone take part in.  Not something they do.

Now to clarify... just going to say this for the record...

Forgiveness does not mean you allow someone to harm you again.   If someone hits you in the face, or steals money from your purse, you don't keep letting them borrow your charge card.  You don't have to keep going over to their house, and letting them hit you.   You can both forgive, and keep healthy boundaries in your life.  I have to say that, because I have heard that some congregations have told abused women they have to forgive and go back to their husbands.    That's not in the Bible, and it's not even sane.

Hope that helps.

 

 

[JohnD]

23 hours ago, cha cha said:

I was just wondering if anyone knows the answer to this, if someone offends us and doesn't care we still have to forgive them yes? but if we don't truly repent to God he won't forgive us.  how does that work?

Repent from unbelief in Jesus Christ (which is the condition we were all born in) to belief in the genuine Jesus Christ.

John the Baptist (the voice crying out in the wilderness to make straight the Kings Highway for the King of Kings and Lord of Lords)

cried our REPENT! and believe the Good News.

Most people down through history have mingled this with confession of sins / turning away from them...

Proverbs 28:13 (AV)
13 He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy.

Under the LAW (not Grace) one had to bring a sacrifice to the Temple and confess their sin over the head of the animal as it was being

slaughtered. Then they'd better not make that same sin again... 

Under GRACE...

1 John 1:9 (AV)
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Even under the Law that confession was to God (Psalm 51:4) not man. The passage in James refers to general faults (strongs # 3900) not specific sins (strongs # 266)

Confess in 1 John 1:9 homologeo means to come along side.  Agree. Agree with God what we did was wrong. Then move on.

Read the passage in one sitting as one passage (1 John 1:5 - 1 John 2:17) repeatedly until it sinks in that God saved us and that will never change. 

So our confession is to deal with our own guilt / our turning away from God / our sin throwing a monkey wrench into our relationship with God...

which still does not change the fact that we are saved, we are his child, and by confession to God we can get back in touch with that reality.

Under the LAW, confession (sacrifice) had nothing to do with eternal salvation, but dealing with the infraction against God's Law.

Even with the woman caught in adultery (John 8) Jesus (while still under the Law at the time, see Hebrews 9:16-17) showed her grace by not 

condemning her... but had to follow up with law "go and sin no more." 

Grace is not a license to sin. 1 Corinthians 5:5 and other passages indicate God is very active / interactive in the lives of his children (who believe in Jesus).

But our faith in Jesus puts us in a forever saved state that nothing can change.

That doesn't mean our sins will not put us through hell in this life. Notice in 1 Corinthians 5:5 to whom God turns the insistent sinner over to.

But he times of worry and insistence on unconfessed sins or some misinterpretatoin of repentance died with the Old Covenant.

The Law still stands for unbelievers... but there is no longer a covenant with the Law. It was fulfilled by Christ on the cross and superseded by the New Covenant

in just the same way the old covenant superseded the Noachian covenant and that the covenants before it.

Galatians 3:24–28 (NIV84)
24 So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ that we might be justified by faith.
25 Now that faith has come, we are no longer under the supervision of the law.
26 You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus,
27 for all of you who were baptized* into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

*Matthew 3:11 (NIV84)
11 “I baptize you with water for repentance. But after me will come one who is more powerful than I,

whose sandals I am not fit to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire.

 

 

 

 

 

[cha cha]

well you say that once we are saved by faith nothing can change that, I believe if we do not continue to keep a relationship with Christ and do not obey and trust or go back into the world then we can still go to hell.  Hebrews 10 vr 39.

[appy]

God commanded us to turn from sinful lives and turn to him. He also commanded us to believe upon His Son. When we do not, we are disobeying His commands. He is our creator, and Sovereign over all. He is not obligated to bend to our wishes. And the difference between our offenses against Him and offenses against each other.

Not forgiving each other is NOT an option because Jesus commanded us to forgive one another without measure. We are ALL guilty of offending another human for one reason or another . Our forgiving one another is NOT dependent upon whether the guilty party is sorry or not. We are still told to do it. If we do not, God will not do the same for us. Forgiving the offenders isn't so much as for his/her benefit as it is for our own. If someone offends you, forgiveness is for YOUR benefit, not the other way around. First you are doing what God commanded us to do. The next reason is that it keeps bitterness and resentment and hatred for the other person or offense from taking root in you. These three things can rob you of your joy and WILL have an effect on your walk with the Lord.

Matthew 18:35 "This is how my heavenly Father will treat each of you unless you forgive your brother or sister from your heart."
Mark 11: 25 And when you stand praying, if you hold anything against anyone, forgive them, so that your Father in heaven may forgive you your sins."

Matthew 6:14, 15 For if you forgive other people when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive others their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins.

Matthew 6:12 And forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors.

Colossians 3:13 Bear with each other and forgive one another if any of you has a grievance against someone. Forgive as the Lord forgave you.

Proverbs 19: 11 A person's wisdom yields patience; it is to one's glory to overlook an offense.

Ephesians 4:26 "In your anger do not sin": Do not let the sun go down while you are still angry,

1 Peter 3: 8,9 Finally, all of you, be like-minded, be sympathetic, love one another, be compassionate and humble. Do not repay evil with evil or insult with insult. On the contrary, repay evil with blessing, because to this you were called so that you may inherit a blessing.

 

[Prycejosh1987]

On 1/28/2020 at 12:59 PM, cha cha said:

I was just wondering if anyone knows the answer to this, if someone offends us and doesn't care we still have to forgive them yes? but if we don't truly repent to God he won't forgive us.  how does that work?

We should do what God does. He forgives sins when we repent, and we should forgive someone who does repent and let God execute judgement on them. All sin is committed against God, the sins that we commit personally ourselves and the people that commit sins against us. The sin against God is more worse than the sin committed against us. This is why judgement should be in Gods hands. It doesnt mean we should be walked over like the dirt on the ground. Rebuke where you need to.