uvn477 Posted August 11, 2005 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 39 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 85 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/10/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/25/1987 Share Posted August 11, 2005 The first time I heard my agnostic friend say this my mouth dropped as I'm sure most Christians would react the same. He was saying that God calls Himself a king and that all should love Him or be thrown in hell. Therefore that makes Him a tyrant. I've heard this many other times in my life from others so I'll say the same thing now as I said to them. What tyrant do you know has ever given up his glory to come down as a carpenter and be crucified for all his people? What tyrant has built his kingdom by love and not force? What tyrant has continually shown mercy to his people when even now he'd be justified to destroy us all? The fact is, we turned our backs on God. He created us and loved us expecting the same thing in return. Instead we spit in His face and cursed His name. How bitter would you be if this happened to you? Could you be so forgiving and take this person back? What if this person said sorry but continued to do what was wrong? Could you forgive them again? Well God does. He gives us an infinite amount of chances to come back to Him and he will always except us with open arms. We deserve to go to hell. And not coming to Him in our lifetime is enough reason for us to go to hell. Before you say God is a tyrant, think of what you did to Him first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric Posted August 11, 2005 Group: Graduated to Heaven Followers: 2 Topic Count: 50 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,073 Content Per Day: 0.52 Reputation: 43 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/02/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/10/1923 Share Posted August 11, 2005 uvn477, you keep believing along those lines and you will truly be blessed. eric. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jc49 Posted August 11, 2005 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 82 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 498 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 7 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/10/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/25/1949 Share Posted August 11, 2005 The first time I heard my agnostic friend say this my mouth dropped as I'm sure most Christians would react the same. He was saying that God calls Himself a king and that all should love Him or be thrown in hell. Therefore that makes Him a tyrant. I've heard this many other times in my life from others so I'll say the same thing now as I said to them. What tyrant do you know has ever given up his glory to come down as a carpenter and be crucified for all his people? What tyrant has built his kingdom by love and not force? What tyrant has continually shown mercy to his people when even now he'd be justified to destroy us all? The fact is, we turned our backs on God. He created us and loved us expecting the same thing in return. Instead we spit in His face and cursed His name. How bitter would you be if this happened to you? Could you be so forgiving and take this person back? What if this person said sorry but continued to do what was wrong? Could you forgive them again? Well God does. He gives us an infinite amount of chances to come back to Him and he will always except us with open arms. We deserve to go to hell. And not coming to Him in our lifetime is enough reason for us to go to hell. Before you say God is a tyrant, think of what you did to Him first. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apothanein kerdos Posted August 11, 2005 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 331 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 8,713 Content Per Day: 1.21 Reputation: 21 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/28/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted August 11, 2005 The first time I heard my agnostic friend say this my mouth dropped as I'm sure most Christians would react the same. He was saying that God calls Himself a king and that all should love Him or be thrown in hell. Therefore that makes Him a tyrant. I've heard this many other times in my life from others so I'll say the same thing now as I said to them. What tyrant do you know has ever given up his glory to come down as a carpenter and be crucified for all his people? What tyrant has built his kingdom by love and not force? What tyrant has continually shown mercy to his people when even now he'd be justified to destroy us all? The fact is, we turned our backs on God. He created us and loved us expecting the same thing in return. Instead we spit in His face and cursed His name. How bitter would you be if this happened to you? Could you be so forgiving and take this person back? What if this person said sorry but continued to do what was wrong? Could you forgive them again? Well God does. He gives us an infinite amount of chances to come back to Him and he will always except us with open arms. We deserve to go to hell. And not coming to Him in our lifetime is enough reason for us to go to hell. Before you say God is a tyrant, think of what you did to Him first. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Absolutely amazing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trust & Obey Posted August 11, 2005 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 16 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,091 Content Per Day: 0.16 Reputation: 14 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/23/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted August 11, 2005 Great thought. The other thing to consider is that God cannot be a Tyrant because He is God. God is not a "usurper of sovereignty" because only He is sovereign. It is us who usurp His sovereignty when we rebel. Main Entry: ty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerioke Posted August 11, 2005 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 97 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 5,850 Content Per Day: 0.84 Reputation: 128 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/19/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/11/1911 Share Posted August 11, 2005 PLEASE NOTE! I am not claiming God is a tyrant. The first time I heard my agnostic friend say this my mouth dropped as I'm sure most Christians would react the same. He was saying that God calls Himself a king and that all should love Him or be thrown in hell. Therefore that makes Him a tyrant. I've heard this many other times in my life from others so I'll say the same thing now as I said to them. What tyrant do you know has ever given up his glory to come down as a carpenter and be crucified for all his people? Why was this necessary? Couldn't God simply have told each and every person on the Earth, at the same time "believe in me and you will be saved". Why the big drama from a God who can accomplish anything with a thought? Couldn't God just have decided to forgive the sins of the world? What tyrant has built his kingdom by love and not force? I thought the OT was pretty much filled with the wrath of God. Many stories contain the theme "believe in the one true God or die". What tyrant has continually shown mercy to his people when even now he'd be justified to destroy us all? Mercy? How about the Flood story? What mercy is there in condemning someone to eternal torture for being skeptical? The fact is, we turned our backs on God. He created us and loved us expecting the same thing in return. Expecting the same in return? I thought God knew all things the moment he decided to create the universe. You don't expect what you already know. This is one of the major flaws I find with the bible. There are many occasions where it seems God does not know everything or acts as though he doesn't i.e. looking for Adam in the Garden, regretting his creation... Instead we spit in His face and cursed His name. How bitter would you be if this happened to you? How could he be bitter if he knew it would happen before he created us. Not to mention that being bitter is a human emotion unfit for a God. Could you be so forgiving and take this person back? What if this person said sorry but continued to do what was wrong? Could you forgive them again? Well God does. He gives us an infinite amount of chances to come back to Him and he will always except us with open arms. We deserve to go to hell. Why do I deserve it? What did I ever do to God as a new born baby? Why am I punished for something the very first human did? Seems a bit unfair. And not coming to Him in our lifetime is enough reason for us to go to hell. Before you say God is a tyrant, think of what you did to Him first. Exactly what was it I ever did to God? Turn my back on him? No, I never turned my back on him because he has never presented himself to me so I couldn't possibly have done something to someone who has never shown me to exist. Now if God said to me "Hey, over here, I'm right here." and THEN I denied him, that would be different. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> How do you know that hasn't happened. Maybe you just didn't recognize Him. Maybe you were so emersed in your own self absorbsion that you didn't even notice the presence of God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orr v'emet Posted August 11, 2005 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 26 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,672 Content Per Day: 0.23 Reputation: 11 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/12/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted August 11, 2005 How do you know that hasn't happened. Maybe you just didn't recognize Him. Maybe you were so emersed in your own self absorbsion that you didn't even notice the presence of God. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Well, when my wife wants my attention it's not very difficult for her to get it regardless of my state of mind or how emersed in myself or anything for that matter. Seems like God would be capable of at least the same don't you think? Not to mention the fact that she is capable of getting my attention even after 13 years of marriage (meaning I've learned to tune her out when I want to ) I think I would notice if God was trying to get my attention. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> What makes you think that the people here at worthy are sent by God to get your attention and direct you to Him? You commented earlier in your post that being bitter is a human emotion that would be "unfit" for God. So what makes you think that Him revealing himself to you in the way that your wife would (in some human form) is fit for God too? Why was this necessary? Couldn't God simply have told each and every person on the Earth, at the same time "believe in me and you will be saved". Why the big drama from a God who can accomplish anything with a thought? Couldn't God just have decided to forgive the sins of the world? God could have decided to forgive the sins of the world by speaking it, thinking it whatever. Sending Jesus as he did shows us how much God truly loves us and wants us to be part of His family. Jesus' sacrifice for us on the cross shows us the love and desire that he had for us. I'm sure it wasn't easy to be mocked, beaten, tortured and killed for people that would surely spit in his face. He loved you and I enough to take a chance that we would one day choose him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uvn477 Posted August 12, 2005 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 39 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 85 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/10/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/25/1987 Author Share Posted August 12, 2005 Foglight, I've seen your arguements and can argue every one of them. However, I find it very distracting when I am hit with so many questions at once. If you wish, feel free to send me private messages. I apologize if it is an inconvenience to you or anyone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uvn477 Posted August 15, 2005 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 39 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 85 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/10/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/25/1987 Author Share Posted August 15, 2005 Everyone who argues that God is a tyrant says that they are being threatened. Sin deserves punishment. You first turned your back on the Lord not the other way around. You continuously spit in His face yet he doesn't strike you down on the spot. He gives you infinite chances in your lifetime to turn to Him. Just once accept that Jesus died for your sins and you have a clean slate. This is not mercy?! I remember when I dated a girl who kept sleeping around on me. She kept coming back and I kept opening the door for her. I don't like to admit it but my patients has limits and around the 10th time I told her to I never wanted to see her at my door again. I'm sure I'm not the only one that would've done this. No matter what you do, Jesus will never shut his door on your face. He will always take you back. Jesus takes no pleasure punishing you. If a parent spanks a child for something bad he's done, is that the parent's fault? That's exactly what you're arguing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
halifaxchristian Posted August 15, 2005 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 722 Content Per Day: 0.10 Reputation: 10 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/01/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted August 15, 2005 Believe it or not I am actually going to respond to this. You will also note that I added spacing, paragraph breaks and punctuation since you didn't. Isn't this easier to read? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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