Jump to content
George

Defense of the Pre Trib Rapture

Recommended Posts

Hello brothers and sisters,

Since the forums got a little jumbled, I decided to go ahead and start a few new threads. This thread is the defense of the pre-trib rapture theological position.

Why do you believe in a pre trib rapture?

Your brother in Christ with much agape love,

George

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Why I Believe in the Rapture

By Sabra M. Reed aka Wordsower

Most Christians believe in the rapture. (the catching up of the saints in the air) They just can't agree on when it will occur. We either think it is before the great tribulation, during it or at the end of it. After much prayer and study and after many years of believing in a post-tribulation rapture I have come to the understanding and conviction that there is indeed an imminent rapture of the bride of Christ (the church, the true body of believers) into heaven before the great tribulation. This is the Marriage Supper of the Lamb. Jesus said in Matthew 26:29 that He would not drink of the fruit of the vine until He drinks it with us in heaven. 2 Peter 3:10 says the day of the Lord will come like a theif in the night, while Revelation 1:7 says He will come with clouds and every eye will see Him. Then in Rev 3:3 it says again that He will come as a theif in the night and you will not know what hour He comes. It doesn't take a genius to see that if He comes in clouds and every eye will see Him, you will know what hour He comes. We know that a theif comes to take something and this theif is stated as coming in the night. In the parable of the 10 Virgins the bridegroom came at midnight (Matt. 25:6) We'll look at that parable in a minute. Could it be that these are two separate events? To a post tribulation believer this idea seems unbelievable, but if it could be proven with scripture, wouldn't it bring such peace and a new sense of excitement in the events of our days? Furthermore, if it is true and churches are teaching against it, then hasn't Satan allowed fear into the hearts of God's people?

James 1:5 says if we lack wisdom we can just ask God! That He gives liberally, without reproach if we just ask! He doesn't want us to be confused or ignorant about His Word. He just asks that we seek Him and not doubt and He will give us wisdom. Almost a year ago I asked Him to show me this whole rapture truth and just exactly where my fate lies in these perilous days. Knowing that, in any event, come what may, my faith and trust is in Him. Almost immediately scriptures and passages started to have new meaning.

I was invited to a Bible study on Friday nights last Spring and came in on the book of Luke. About the second week we were studying the parable of the lost son. The Prodigal son as he is well known. Here we have a man with a lot of wealth and two sons. One son decides to squander his wealth and see the world. He ends up hungry, broke, feeding the pigs and then repents and returns to his father. When his father sees him in the distance, he runs to him, kisses him, gives him the best robe and a ring on his hand and sandals on his feet. Then he throws a big feast for him and the older son is jealous and doesn't go to the feast.

As we read and studied this parable the Holy Spirit began to reveal a deeper meaning than the obvious. The definition of a parable is: 'An earthly story with a heavenly meaning' Jesus spoke in parables with a simple story relative to everyone and a parallel meaning to those who understood the things of the Spirit. When the disciples asked Jesus in Matthew 13:10 "Why do You speak to them in parables?" He answered and said unto them, "Because it has been given to you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given. He goes on to say that the reason it wasn't given to them is because their hearts had become dull. Their eyes were closed. They listened with their ears and saw with their eyes instead of listening to their hearts.

In the parable, the father has two sons. I believe these represent the Jews and the Gentiles. The Gentiles first squandered their inheritance. For approximately the first 4000 years they were lost. The Jews are God's chosen people, for the first 4000 years or so until Jesus' first coming they were supposed to be the light to the world. When Jesus came, the gentiles received Him while the Jews didn't recognize Him as they were looking for a king to come and reign. When the lost son returns home to his father, the father puts the best robe on him. The robe represents Jesus. He is the robe of light. Isaiah 61 speaks of the second coming of the Lord. In verse 10 Isaiah says: "I will greatly rejoice in the Lord, my soul shall be joyful in my God; For He has clothed me with the garment of salvation, He has covered me with the robe of righteouseness, as a bridegroom decks himself with ornaments, and as a bride adorns herself with her jewels. verse 11: For as the earth brings forth its bud, as the garden causes the things that are sown in it to spring forth, So the Lord God will cause righteousness and praise to spring forth before all nations."

Next, the father put a ring on his hand. This represents the inheritance being given to him. The signet ring was used like a stamp or seal to sign important documents showing ones authority such as in Esther 3. In Genesis 41:42 Pharoah gave his signet ring to Joseph and clothed him in garments of fine linen, giving him the authority of the king. Our inheritance is eternal life through Christ Jesus and we are sealed by the Spirit. Ephesians 1:13,14: In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possesion, to the praise of His glory.

Next, he put sandals on his feet. These represent protection and provision. Deut. 33:24,25: And of Asher he said: "Asher is most blessed of sons; Let him be favored by his brothers, and let him dip his foot in oil. Your sandals shall be iron and bronze; As your days, so shall your strength be." Asher was Leah's maid's son by Jacob in Genesis. Leah was Jacob's first wife, but he really wanted to marry Rachel, just as the Gentiles (the church) are Christ's bride even though He chose the jews first.

Then the father called for a great feast for his younger son (who represents the Gentile). When the older son (the Jew) came near the house and heard the music and dancing, he called to one of the servants and asked what these things meant. The servant told him that his brother had come home and was received safe and sound and his father had thrown a great party for him. The older son is jealous and angry and wont go into the feast even though the father pleads with him to enter. He tells his father he has kept his commandments from the beginning and this brother has foolishly wasted his inheritance! Why is he getting this special feast while the faithful son gets none? The father explains to the older son that he is always with him and all that he has is his but it is right that they make merry for his brother because he was lost and is found, he was dead and is alive! This makes it more clear that the older son is the chosen Jew and the Gentile is the one who was lost and is found, was dead and is alive

Paul explains this plainly in Romans chapter 10. Israel rejected Christ and the prophets while the Gentiles believed and were saved. Rom. 10:1-11: Bretheren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is that they may be saved. For I bear them witness that they have a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge. For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and seeking to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted to the righteousness of God. For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes. For Moses writes about the righteousness which is of the law, "The man who does those things shall live by them." But the righteousness of faith speaks in this way, "Do not say in your heart, 'Who will ascend into heaven?'" (that is to bring Christ down from above) or, "'Who will descend into the abyss?'" (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead) But what does it say? "The word is near you, even in your mouth and in your heart" (that is, the word of faith which we preach): that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes to righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made to salvation. For the Scripture says, "Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame." verse 16-21: But they have not all obeyed the gospel. for Isaiah says, "Lord, who has believed our report?" So then faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God. But I say, have they not heard? Yes indeed: "Their sound has gone out to all the earth, and their words to to the ends of the world." But I say, did Israel not know? first Moses says: "I will provoke you to jealousy by those who are not a nation, (the Gentiles) I will anger you by a foolish nation." But Isaiah is very bold and says: "I was found by those who did not seek Me; I was made manifest to those who did not ask for Me." But to Israel he says: All the day long I have stretched out My hands to a disobedient and contrary people."

Paul goes on to say that Israel's rejection is not total: Chapter 11:1-10: I say then, has God cast away His people? Certainly not! For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. God has not cast away His people whom He foreknew. Or do you not know what the Scripture says of Elijah, how he pleads with God against Israel saying, "Lord, they have killed Your prophets and torn down Your altars, and I alone and left, and they seek my life"? But what does the divine response say to him? "I have reserved for Myself seven thousand men who have not bowed the knee to Baal." Even so then, at this time, there is a remnant according to the election of grace. And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. But it is of works, it is no longer grace, 0therwise work is no longer work. What then? Israel has not obtained what it seeks, but the elect have obtained it, and the rest were hardened. Just as it is written: "God has given them a spirit of stupor, Eyes that they should not see and ears that they should not hear, to this very day." And David says: "Let their table become a snare and a trap, a stumbling block and a recompense to them; Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back always."

So what is the purpose of Israel's rejection? Rom. 11:11-14: I say then, have they stumbled that they should fall? Certainly not! But through their fall, to provoke them to jealousy, salvation has come to the Gentiles. Now if their fall is riches for the world and their failure riches for the Gentiles, how much more is their fullness! For I speak to you as Gentiles; inasmuch as I am an apostle to the Gentiles, I magnify my ministry, if by any means I may provoke to jealousy those who are my flesh and save some of them. Remember the older son was jealous of the big feast thrown for his younger brother.

He goes on to say how we were grafted in because of our belief in Jesus and the Jews will be grafted back in, but when?

Rom. 11:25: For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that hardening in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. And so Israel will be saved, as it is written: "The Deliverer will come out of Zion, and He will turn away the ungodliness from Jacob; For this is My covenant with them, when I take away thier sins."

What is the fullness of the Gentiles?

Isaiah 11:1-4: There shall come forth a Rod (Jesus) from the stem of Jesse (Israel), and a Branch (Christians) shall grow out of his roots. The Spirit of the Lord shall rest upon Him, The Spirit of wisdom and understanding, The Spirit of counsel and might, The Spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the Lord. His delight is in the fear of the Lord and He shall not judge with the sight of His eyes, Nor decide by the hearing of His ears; But with righteousness He shall judge the poor, and decide with equity for the meek of the earth, He shall strike the earth with the rod of His mouth, and with the breath of His lips He shall slay the wicked. 1:10 "And in that day there shall be a Root of Jesse, Who shall stand as a banner to the people; For the Gentiles shall seek Him, and His resting place shall be glorious.

Parable of the 10 virgins

Matthew 25: We have 10 virgins all with their lamps waiting to meet the bridegroom. The foolish ones take no oil with them. I think the Oil represents the Holy Spirit. I believe that 5 of these virgins are Jews and 5 Gentiles. The Jews were intended to be the light of the world but they let their lamps go out in their unfaithfulness to God. However, God always had kind intentions toward the nations. Even though he chooses one nation from among all the nations in Genesis 12:1-3 by graciously raising up Abraham and his descendants, God

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest shadow2b

SABRA-----you presented a very beautifull & eloquent picture of the bridegroom & the BRIDE-----I understand that this is the {pretrib} theory,but would like to ask just a few questions.....the only ones that JESUS will come to AS A THIEF are those that areNOT looking for him to return at all.....the UNbelievers-----WHY would JESUS come as a thief in the night anyway??HE isNOT stealing something,HE is coming for what is HIS------how about dan.vs.21-----only michael stands against the devil not we the church or the HOLY-SPIRIT in the church..IF WE were preventing or REStraing evil I.E.

the devil--we certainly should be embarrassed because WE ain't done a very good job of restraining

any E-VILE at all have we??--2nd.thess.2.vs.7----only he{michael} will let[restrain] untill }HE} is taken out of the way----NOwhere in GOD'S WORD are christians,GOD'S people-JEWS NO human fights against evil nor is any human given the authority to individually or collectivelly REStrain any evil or devils EXcept AFTER THE CROSS OF JESUS----- michael is clearly depicted as the arc angel- one of the chief princes who fights demons--i.e. in daniel,gabriel states that HE was fighting the KING of persia & couldNOT go tell daniel what GOD had told him to untill MIchael came & took over the fight against the king of persia----IN the beginning when the devil rebelled, WHO is it that throws the fallen angels{demons} out of heaven?? ahhhhhhhhh welll just some thoughts for you sis---------BLESSINGS---{Gary}---------

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
the only ones that JESUS will come to AS A THIEF are those that areNOT looking for him to return at all.....the UNbelievers-----WHY would JESUS come as a thief in the night anyway??

He will come unexpectantly. See Matt. 24:45-51 the faithful and wise servant is found doing what he is supposed to do-feeding the people, and he will be made ruler over all the master's goods. The evil servant is found beating his fellow servants and drinking and whatever so the master will come on a day when he doesn't expect.

The wise virgins were prepared, the foolish were not.

We who know Him and are preparing for Him to come will be ready, but we still don't know what hour He is coming, so it will still be like a theif in the night. The second coming has all sorts of signs preceding it so it isn't as a thief in the night.

Does that help at all?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
He will come unexpectantly. See Matt. 24:45-51 the faithful and wise servant is found doing what he is supposed to do-feeding the people, and he will be made ruler over all the master's goods. The evil servant is found beating his fellow servants and drinking and whatever so the master will come on a day when he doesn't expect.

The wise virgins were prepared, the foolish were not.

We who know Him and are preparing for Him to come will be ready, but we still don't know what hour He is coming, so it will still be like a theif in the night. The second coming has all sorts of signs preceding it so it isn't as a thief in the night.

Does that help at all?

By George, I think you got it wordsower!! :cool:

A thief is known to break in secretly, take whatever he is after, and then get out as quickly as possible, and without being discovered. It will all happen in the twinkling of an eye, or faster than we can blink. This is definitely refering to the rapture, and not the second coming. It's going to happen so fast that no one will be able to see it, but they will notice that millions of people have just vanished.

The second coming will be very different. All eyes will see Him coming with His glorious church. The second coming will have several signs that precede it. For one thing, the earth will be totally dark for many days before the second coming. When the King of kings comes with His church, all wearing white robes and riding white horses, His glory is going to fill the entire world with His glorious light. Some think that everyone will see Him coming because of tv's, but the world won't need a tv to see that God has just turned on the light in the dark world.

Also, about the wise and foolish virgins. I believe that they are all believers because of the title virgins that was given to them. This type of virgin is not like we think of a virgin in these days. It's not talking about a sexual purity here. It's talking about a spiritual purity. They all believe in the right savior and know that he is returning for them, but not all of them have enough oil to endure for a long time. But the Bridegroom was a long time in coming. I believe that the wise virgins are ready and waiting now for their Bridegroom to come like a thief in the night, and they have oil to endure.

Rev. 3:10-11 - "Since you have kept my command to endure patiently, I will also keep you from the hour of trial that is going to come upon the whole world to test those who live on the earth. (11)I am coming soon. Hold on to what you have, so that no one will take your crown."

Obviously, verse 11 shows that you can lose your victors crown that will be awarded to all who finish the race and overcome the world. Also, Jesus promises to spit the lukewarm out of His mouth. Good post wordsower!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I don't know how many times i have presented the definition of the word{KEEP} in these passages of scripture BUT NO ONE has EVER yet RESponded to REfute that definition....WHY IS THAT ?? CANNOT YOU'ALL FACE THE TRUTH OF THAT DEFINITION??.??  KEEP=== to keep the eye upon,to guard from loss or injury-----

the WORD {KEEP} doesNOT define a taking out,catching away or gathering to--------NOW do any of you have the scriptural  integrity  to respond to or refute this definition of the WORD {KEEP??.??.??}-----

OR will it be IGNORED as usual??.??--------------{Gary} :cool:

Hi Gary,

Okay, I'll take a shot at it this time. I never answered your question before because I never understood what you meant, but now you are a little more clear. It looks like you are trying to force us to prove a pre-trib rapture with the definition of just one word. Well I'd like to see you prove the post-trib position with just one word. The fact is, neither position has ever been proven, not even if we used all the words of scripture. The best that anyone really can do, is read the scriptures for themselves and try to form their own opinion. But you know what opinions are worth, and almost everybody has one. The Pre-trib position is probably the most widely accepted view in these last days, but even that proves nothing.

Now, back to that word "keep." The word could have a very broad meaning by itself. You could mold it into many different things, but I think you must use the other words with it to get the full meaning. Look at it this way. ( keep you from )

Rev. 3:10-11 - "Since you have kept my command to endure patiently, I will also keep you from the hour of trial that is going to come upon the whole world to test those who live on the earth.

Say you grounded your son as a punishment. And you told him, "I am also going to keep you from that party that you were planning on going to." Well, the old man is telling his son that he will not be at that party. Likewise, Jesus has promised those who patiently endure, that they will not be here for the hour of trial that will come upon the world. It's also important to remember that we aren't part of the world, at least not if we are obeying His commands. Notice also, that the promise is conditional. See Luke 21:36 also.

You may not choose to see it that way, but that is the way the pre-trib believers receive it. I hope this gives you a better understanding Gary. Until next time, Cheers!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest MARANATHA-NOW

One of the main reasons I believe the rapture is pre-trib, is that the mid-point (abomination of desolation) and the return of CHRIST will be known dates for the saints. Since many believe that "the day no one knows but the FATHER only" is referring to the rapture. Then the rapture cannot happen on either of those dates. Peace, but not yet.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest shadow2b

I don't know how many times i have presented the definition of the word{KEEP} in these passages of scripture BUT NO ONE has EVER yet RESponded to REfute that definition....WHY IS THAT ?? CANNOT YOU'ALL FACE THE TRUTH OF THAT DEFINITION??.??

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry, I just noticed this here...

don't have time to respond right now but I will tonight.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Blindseeker,

We may never agree on all of these non-essentials, however, my beliefs are based on the following:

Question #1.

if your conjecture is true, question one, why is the Biblical chronological order for the Marrage of the Lamb after the destruction of the beast, whore, yes, spiritual Babylon? Remember, the rising of the beast and his destruction begins in chapter 13 and concludes in 18 . . .

There's no indication that prophesy is written in chronological order. Look at the major prophets, we have all sorts of jumping around in Isaiah and Jeremiah to name 2. Rev. 19:7-10 doesn't say that it happens at this point, it says blessed are those that are called, but they were there prior to this passage because the elder asked who they were and where they came from. (Rev. 7:9-14)

Matthew 26 :29 "But I say to you, I will not drink of this fruit of the vine from now on until that day when I drink it with you in My Father's kingdom"

Luke 14:15-35 Parable of the Great Supper "Blessed is he who shall eat bread in the kingdom of God......those that were invited had better things to do (they thought their own agenda was sufficient) so none of those men who were invited shall eat at the supper. (Who was invited first? the children of Israel.)

Matthew 22:1-14

Psalm 23 "Thou preparest a table for me in the presence of my enemies...."

Luke 21:36 Watch therefore and pray always that you may be counted worthy to escape all these things that will come to pass and to stand before the Son of Man.

Question two

, Why are the called to gather themselves to this great supper of the Lord? And please notice the meal being served . . .

That meal is not the marriage supper of the Lamb, it is the Supper of the Great God, the angel called all of the birds to eat the dead.see Ez. 39:17-20 Vengeance is the Lord's

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

×